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Author Topic: The most missed removed card.  (Read 16176 times)

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Davio

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2016, 03:08:39 am »
0

90-93% of people are worse at statistics than they think.

Statistics are far more skippable than most people think.

92.54% of statistics are made up on the spot.
There seems to be some optimal number of digits after the dot to make it a believable statistic.
90% seems made up, but so does 92.5414243434343535353%.
So I think the right number is 2.
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Accatitippi

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2016, 04:11:01 am »
+2

90-93% of people are worse at statistics than they think.

Statistics are far more skippable than most people think.

92.54% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And the remaining 16.43% are made up in advance.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 04:34:08 am by Accatitippi »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2016, 08:16:28 am »
+3

90-93% of people are worse at statistics than they think.

Statistics are far more skippable than most people think.

92.54% of statistics are made up on the spot.
54.76% of statistics have decimal points to make you think they are more accurate.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2016, 09:25:23 am »
+4

90-93% of people are worse at statistics than they think.

Statistics are far more skippable than most people think.

92.54% of statistics are made up on the spot.
54.76% of statistics have decimal points to make you think they are more accurate.
I'm 73.4% certain that the second digit after the decimal is far more skippable than most people think.
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Amac

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2016, 07:43:16 pm »
+4

I'm going to make a list out of this:

12. Adventurer - This card, honestly, I never found it useful or fun to play. I don't even understand how a card that draws 2, and not even actions, was priced at 6. Yeah, it skips over victory cards and it doesn't get actions if you have none, but as draw it is weak and it doesn't do anything else. Also, it doesn't work well without (treasure) trashing, but those horrendous victory cards don't need to be trashed to make it even semi-useful. There are so few cards who cannot trash victory cards but can trash copper.. (I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
11. Sabouteur - Ugh. Slow to resolve, slow to play, not good if you play it yourself and not good if someone else plays it. This card is only annoyance and enormously slow-paced. I played it in 4p once, it wasn't fun. It just wasn't. As much as I love Swindler (the game-changing aspect of it makes it one of my 5 favourite cards in all of dominion), Saboteur doesn't get any of this love.
10. Thief - Just not fun. I honestly only like it somewhat as the chapel payload destroyer in situations with no virtual coin. And maybe Thief-Gardens. Other than that, I just don't think the card felt ever fun or useful.
9. Scout - Another instance of a very poor card, this and Adventurer are clearly the two worst cards ever printed. But Scout at least is fun. You get to arrange some cards, get annoying victory cards out of the way. And in mono-intrigue games it can get to the point where it goes from very bad to 'meh, maybe it is not so bad after a-- oh it still is not good enough'.
8. Spy - A slow-to-resolve cantrip that is Scrying Pool without the coolness value. It is bland and I honestly don't think I have ever seen a board where I thought 'Spy is a killer card here, man'. At least it sometimes can be good, but this is one of those 'yeah a fun card but if it was never printed I don't miss it'-cards
7. Great Hall - Same as Spy, but I at least like the double card type-concept of this card. It was maybe too easy, but not all cards have to be hard to understand. In the end, it did add too little, like my #6
6. Woodcutter - Suffers from the 'too easy'-problem, but also from the fact that it is almost always the worst possible option for +Buy. It is an option, but really, only Herbalist is worse usually. The only reason I rank this at 6 is Woodcutter-Gardens, which was much more fun to play that Workshop-Gardens in my base only days. But now we have Squire-Gardens and Beggar-Gardens, so who cares about Woodcutter-Gardens.
5. Secret Chamber - This is the good part. Fun cards to play with unique concepts. This unique concept is probably where Secret Chamber goes wrong. Its reaction is fun, but it is seldom game-breaking and furthermore, can be somewhat confusing. The discard option is all right but not interesting, it is the reaction part that is fun. The largest reason is that it makes topdeck attacks much less worthwile. Just put that estate on top when your opponent tries to Swindle. Sadly, usually it just prevents those attacks from being bought, it doesn't help Secret Chamber to be used more often.
4. Feast - Procession/Feast is awesome. TR/Feast is great. But that's the largest part of the fun. Buying a 4 to trash it and get a 5 is only nice if one doesn't need that silver, usually. Still, the card idea is the thing I like. Sort of like mathematics in Innovation. (But that is actually a huge card)
3. Tribute - Still not the most memorable card, but I think it is fun to just play something and see what happens. It is dicy, but can be very good. Randomness in the game can be fun, as long as the games are more casually oriented.
2. Chancellor - Back in the day this was a pretty unique concept. Chancellor is also one of the few cards that doesn't face from poor opportunity cost or the fact that it is unnecessary; it is strictly better than silver providing one has the actions to spare. Also, it is a fast card. It speeds up your own game and the wording doesn't slow the game down. The only problem is Scavenger, really.
1. Coppersmith - Just because Coppesmith is the most unique card and it is fun with large hands. Just playing an action and saying 'well that's +7 coin' (in the end, at least) feels really great. It was too strong with TR/KC in my view, but that was also really fun in a sense - copper worth 4 feels pretty crazy. It was somewhat the problem of this card anyway; either it is completely hopeless (in boards without possible large hands or boards with (copper) trashing), or really good.
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gloures

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2016, 03:42:44 am »
0

(I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
You're giving Adventurer too much credit, If it would cost 5 it would be very similar to Harvest, probably worse than Harvest. Adventurer is the only card in Dominion that I never really understood the cost (specially since it's so heavily outclassed by gold...)
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AdrianHealey

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2016, 04:49:13 am »
+2

Adventurer would be a fine $3: a cycling terminal silver.
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Amac

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2016, 05:50:33 am »
+1

(I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
You're giving Adventurer too much credit, If it would cost 5 it would be very similar to Harvest, probably worse than Harvest. Adventurer is the only card in Dominion that I never really understood the cost (specially since it's so heavily outclassed by gold...)

It was not my intention to say Adventurer is almost as good as Margrave there. I just wanted to say it is worse than a random pretty good 5, whilst costing 6. (and 5 or 6 doesn't face the problem of brokenness problems in the early game and such. Furthermore, Adventurer isn't that good in the early game anyway) Even as a 5, it would be very situational. I guess it would be better than Mandarin, just maybe. But roundabout that level. At least it doesn't face competition from gold here.
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Davio

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2016, 06:24:47 am »
+3

(I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
You're giving Adventurer too much credit, If it would cost 5 it would be very similar to Harvest, probably worse than Harvest. Adventurer is the only card in Dominion that I never really understood the cost (specially since it's so heavily outclassed by gold...)
Maybe it has a skewed cost because it appears in the same set as Chapel.
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ackmondual

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2017, 04:43:41 pm »
0

I would have kept Coppersmith and replaced Wishing Well instead. The way the +1 Card prevents the card  from comboing with a lot of other cards seems more like an oversight in the relentless pursuit of simplicity than a feature. It's something that was "fixed" in a later card (Mystic), just like other fixed cards that have now been removed (Thief and Chancellor).  You could argue it's a card that rewards knowing your deck, but Journeyman does that in a more interesting way,  and Mystic still rewards experienced players who can play it "blind".

On the other hand Coppersmith definitely had its uses and you could build a strategy around it.

Really needed something like Scout, which also got the axe, but at least was replaced by Patrol.  There are still cards like Navigator and Cartographer
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DrHandsomeface

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2017, 10:59:24 pm »
0

(I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
You're giving Adventurer too much credit, If it would cost 5 it would be very similar to Harvest, probably worse than Harvest. Adventurer is the only card in Dominion that I never really understood the cost (specially since it's so heavily outclassed by gold...)
Maybe it has a skewed cost because it appears in the same set as Chapel.

I think that Adventurer could be a relevant card at $6 if the text were "reveal 2 Treasure cards other than copper." On many boards It'd worth at least two silvers; not great but worth thinking about.
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Chris is me

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2017, 11:06:06 pm »
0

(I think Adventurer still is worse than, let's say, Margrave if it would cost 5.)
You're giving Adventurer too much credit, If it would cost 5 it would be very similar to Harvest, probably worse than Harvest. Adventurer is the only card in Dominion that I never really understood the cost (specially since it's so heavily outclassed by gold...)
Maybe it has a skewed cost because it appears in the same set as Chapel.

do people still seriously think Chapel has the wrong cost
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Witherweaver

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2017, 11:07:47 pm »
+1

I mostly just feel bad for Theory.
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werothegreat

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2017, 12:27:48 am »
+1

I mostly just feel bad for Theory.

Also, all us six-star members getting labelled "Adventurers".  We should be "Artisans", dammit!  Or "Hirelings" or "Grand Markets" or something
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Witherweaver

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2017, 12:31:28 am »
0

I mostly just feel bad for Theory.

Also, all us six-star members getting labelled "Adventurers".  We should be "Artisans", dammit!  Or "Hirelings" or "Grand Markets" or something

I think if you reached it before 2nd edition you should get to keep Adventurer.  Newbs can get a new label~
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Skumpy

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2017, 04:09:58 pm »
+2

I mostly just feel bad for Theory.

Also, all us six-star members getting labelled "Adventurers".  We should be "Artisans", dammit!  Or "Hirelings" or "Grand Markets" or something

I think if you reached it before 2nd edition you should get to keep Adventurer.  Newbs can get a new label~


I mean, sure, I'd take a Champion or Teacher or Overlord title. Feel free to keep Adventurer.
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NotAChaosGod

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Re: The most missed removed card.
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2017, 06:16:04 pm »
0

Tribute suffers from the Puerto Rico problem of "value drastically changes depending on who you're sitting next to".  While in a 2 player game this is zero sum, in larger games it's quite frustrating realizing that the person next to you can buy a very productive Tribute while yours will be crap.  There's nothing wrong with cards fluctuating between games, but between table seats tends to arouse ire (see also possession).

I'll miss Coppersmith, because it was so fun when it worked.
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