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Author Topic: Dominion: End Times  (Read 4252 times)

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madeofghosts

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Dominion: End Times
« on: September 29, 2016, 11:44:06 am »
+3

Some ideas I've been playing with, based on a theme that will quickly become obvious. The appearance of Poacher inspired me to finally post them since they work on a similar basis. Very, very untested - in particular the prices here are basically just guesses so I'm sure there's plenty of balance issues. But please let me know if you think these would work ok, and if the theme is worth exploring.

First, some symbols:
{X} when X is a number means "there are X empty supply piles"
{X+} means "there are X or more empty supply piles"
{*} means "the number of empty supply piles"


BURNING VILLAGE (2)
Action
+2 Actions
If {0}, +1 Card

RANSACK (3)
Action
If {0}, gain an Estate
If {1}, gain a Duchy
If {2+}, gain a Province

RIOT (3)
Action/Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
If {1}, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy
When you trash this, +2 Cards.

DEAL (3)
Action
+$1
+1 Action
+1 Buy
If you've already bought a Deal this turn, this costs £1.

GRAVEYARD (3)
Victory
Worth {*} VP

CRAZE (4)
Treasure
If {0}, worth $3
If {1+}, worth $1

DOOMSAYER (4)
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
If {0}, gain a Silver
If {1+}, gain a Gold

FORTIFY (4)
Action
+$2
+1 Buy
You may place this card on a supply pile, empty or otherwise, to fortify it. A fortified pile does not count as empty and no more cards can be bought from it until a player "buys" the Fortify card for $5, trashing it.

SANCTUARY (4)
Victory
Worth 1VP
When this pile runs out, the game ends.

PROFITEER (4)
Action
+2 Actions
+2 Buys
While this is in play, if a pile empties, +$5 and +1 Buy.

COMET (5)
Action/Attack
Each other player gains a Curse.
If the Curse pile is empty, +$3.


At present it definitely needs a good trasher and a way of returning cards to the supply - I haven't settled on designs for these. Some pile-emptying gimmicks a la Talisman/Port/Salt the Earth would be good too, and split piles would be a nice fit. Not sure if Sanctuary runs afoul of the "strictly better" rule?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 12:04:29 pm »
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Craze sounds way too strong; it would be a rare situation that it's not the clear right move to open with it.

I think the problem with these cards as a whole is that there's plenty of games where a pile never empties until the Province pile does to end the game. Of course, that didn't stop Donald from doing City, which is a great card. But I feel like all of these cards would be more fun in a game where piles are more likely to empty; or where the game doesn't end after just 3 empty piles.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 12:07:08 pm »
+1

+1 for the name "End times". I see what you did there.
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madeofghosts

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 12:18:27 pm »
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Craze sounds way too strong; it would be a rare situation that it's not the clear right move to open with it.

That may be right. I don't know if there's a way to nerf it. Increasing the price even to $5 would probably kill it, and changing the value to $2 seems weak at any price point. Maybe it should be completely worthless after the first pile?

Quote
I think the problem with these cards as a whole is that there's plenty of games where a pile never empties until the Province pile does to end the game. Of course, that didn't stop Donald from doing City, which is a great card. But I feel like all of these cards would be more fun in a game where piles are more likely to empty; or where the game doesn't end after just 3 empty piles.

Yeah, it definitely needs some quick-running-out piles and some pile-emptiers. I guess even then it would have to be played as a set by itself. If any one of the cards popped up in a random game it would probably be way unbalanced one way or the other.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 12:23:13 pm »
+2

Quote
CRAZE (4)
Treasure
Gain a craze.
If {0}, worth $3
If {1+}, worth $1


This is how I would do it.

It'll be nice, but, well, the niceness will end.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 06:38:48 pm »
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That may be right. I don't know if there's a way to nerf it. Increasing the price even to $5 would probably kill it
I don't know, we have plenty of Golds-with-a-drawback at 5. They are all on the weaker side of the spectrum, but hardly unbalanced. Adrian's solution above is quite interesting. It might end up making the card too narrow, but it's definitely worth a try.

And yet, it might be too similar to Poacher to be worthwile.

Deal seems very weak. I get that the idea is to get it for cheaper than 3$ each, but it's still a Copper with +Buy, chances are that I will not want more than one. Its cost effect should be below a dividing line, I think. The effect is pretty nice, but I'm having trouble thinking of a top-half that fits it without being strictly better than Market at 5. Maybe making the coin gain conditional on something (I liked the "+1 coin if you have played an even number of actions this turn" from the Contests). With that it could safely cost 5 plus 1 per additional copy.

I suspect Graveyard is too weak, but it might be just fine.

Profiteer's effect sounds really fun.

Riot seems confusing.

Ransack looks like the kind of card that needs a lot of testing before one can judge it.

While the general ideas in most of these cards seem fine, I think they would be more interesting if they acted on more varied triggers.
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madeofghosts

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 07:41:06 pm »
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Looking twice, yeah, Deal is way too weak. It didn't click until you said "copper + buy". It should probably be a cantrip at the very least. I dunno if it would just end up too similar to Peddler, since they both have conditional costs.

Craze is meant to be a cheap card that's really strong straight away, but becomes a liability later on - so I didn't really want it to cost 5. At that point you're not so far away from affording Gold anyway and I think the drawback is too great. Making it gain other Crazes might work, that really limits its shelf life.

The idea with Riot is that it has a short mid-game window where it's extremely powerful. You'd want to run out a pile pretty quick and then maybe use Fortify or an Ambassador variant to keep other piles full. If it's too fussy as is, the on-trash bonus could probably go.

And if that's too confusing, I have a card called Maelstrom that does *completely* different things depending on the piles. Y'know, to encourage versatility. I'm still formulating that one :p
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King Leon

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 06:53:37 pm »
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Sanctuary and Comet are rather weak.

Either give Sactuary a weak Action or Reaction effect or increase it to 2 VP. My idea: Add the action "Gain a card costing less than this." (fits into the theme).

Comet is a Witch, but without drawing and turns into a terminal Gold. Besides of edge cases, Young Witch and Harvest do this better. I try to fix that card, but it's too similar to Mountebank now:

+$2
Each other player gains a Curse.
If the Curse pile is empty: +$1
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 06:59:15 pm by King Leon »
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RTT

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2016, 09:26:15 am »
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If you compare sanctuary to Salt the Earth it looks very weak. Salt the earth doesnt fill your deck with junk and limits the points your opponent can score.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2016, 02:47:04 pm »
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I LOVE Graveyard.
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stechafle

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 10:03:31 pm »
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RIOT (3)
Action/Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
If {1}, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy
When you trash this, +2 Cards.


Riot doesn't need the Reaction type.
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Limetime

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 11:26:18 pm »
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riot should cost 5 or 4?
It's just city that is either lvl 2 or cantrip.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 09:16:59 am »
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riot should cost 5 or 4?
It's just city that is either lvl 2 or cantrip.

No, it's never a Village. Way weaker than City.
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madeofghosts

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 09:35:36 am »
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RIOT (3)
Action/Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
If {1}, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy
When you trash this, +2 Cards.


Riot doesn't need the Reaction type.

Ah good spot. I figured "when you trash this" meant a reaction, but looking at some other cards it seems that's not true.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 09:44:24 am »
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I've started working on a expansion which cares about the supply; trashing cards from it, card effects based on # of cards in it, etc.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 10:02:50 am »
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Graveyard is interesting but a bit on the weak side. In the best case it is a cheap Duchy and in the middle case it is worse than Tunnel which actually does something during the game.

How about making it a Treasure-Victory card?

Graveyard
Cost:
Types: Treasure- Victory
Take a Coin token.
----------------
Worth 1 per empty Supply pile.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Dominion: End Times
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 12:41:16 pm »
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Ransack would be an interesting Inheritance target.
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