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Author Topic: Seaside 2nd generation  (Read 18775 times)

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AdrianHealey

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2016, 04:57:05 pm »
0

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.

Salvager, remodel, transmogrify, mercenary, apprentice, ... are just a few reasons to get it. I don't get why people don't use it: a free gainer of excellent trash for benefit stuff, that you get to your hand?
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Limetime

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2016, 04:58:34 pm »
+1

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.
I don't get why people don't use it
Because gold sucks.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2016, 05:04:36 pm »
+1

The vanilla card has no votes, that's bazzar.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2016, 05:12:36 pm »
0

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.
I don't get why people don't use it
Because gold sucks.

Better than silver, though.
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trivialknot

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2016, 05:13:36 pm »
0

Explorer is especially great in Feudal Japan.  So many coins...
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LastFootnote

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2016, 05:19:12 pm »
+3

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.
I don't get why people don't use it
Because gold sucks.

Buying Gold sucks. Gaining it can be great, depending on the circumstances.
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Limetime

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2016, 05:28:27 pm »
0

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.
I don't get why people don't use it
Because gold sucks.
Buying Gold sucks. Gaining it can be great, depending on the circumstances.
You still have to buy explorer.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2016, 05:51:08 pm »
+1

I like Explorer a lot and buy it frequently. Less than 50% of games, but still quite a bit. Much more than Chancellor et al.
I don't get why people don't use it
Because gold sucks.
Buying Gold sucks. Gaining it can be great, depending on the circumstances.
You still have to buy explorer.

And play it. Still, one Explorer will gain you several Golds and Silvers (which you also sometimes want to gain).

Again, I'm not claiming Explorer is strong. I'm just saying it's within the acceptable range of narrow cards. And it provides gameplay by making you want to match it up with Province.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2016, 06:03:36 pm »
+2

People should vote for treasury. It doesn't add much to the game. 3 people voting for outpost? That isn't even fair.

Treasury is probably my favourite Peddler variant
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2016, 06:09:11 pm »
0

Explorer without the Gold gaining would be in the "too good for $4, too weak for $5" category, and Gold gaining is a nice way to step it up.

It strikes me as the kind of card that needs to exist even if it's not particularly strong or outlandish. If it was in the base set nobody would question it.
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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2016, 06:14:29 pm »
0

Explorer without the Gold gaining would be in the "too good for $4, too weak for $5" category, and Gold gaining is a nice way to step it up.

It strikes me as the kind of card that needs to exist even if it's not particularly strong or outlandish. If it was in the base set nobody would question it.
I wouldn't buy that "two good for 4" card a lot of the time.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2016, 10:48:15 pm »
+2

I voted for everything because I could.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2016, 11:16:24 pm »
+6

I voted for everything because I could.
Dude, because if all the cards were replaced and you already have the original Seaside, it would be like a new expansion. nice.

Witherweaver

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2016, 11:56:50 pm »
+2

Explorer without the Gold gaining would be in the "too good for $4, too weak for $5" category, and Gold gaining is a nice way to step it up.

It strikes me as the kind of card that needs to exist even if it's not particularly strong or outlandish. If it was in the base set nobody would question it.

I feel like you're trying to say that it may not be superior to every other card, but really every card cannot be the most superior one, so it's alright.
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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2016, 07:30:43 am »
+1

From a Kingdom designers POV, Embargo can be a neat way of nerfing a powerful but monolithic strategy on a board. If there is a fairly strong engine, do you really want to go Rebuild and gain at least 4 Curses? Plus it can also make keeping your strategy secret a while longer useful. I like when it matters if your opponent can't figure out your strategy right away.
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JThorne

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2016, 10:57:51 am »
0

I don't understand all the hate for Lookout. It's a non-terminal trasher. Two of them can thin a deck quite nicely, and by the time you get the unfortunate reveal of three cards you want to keep, well, it's obviously done it's job! Totally worth it.

I can think of plenty of times when a kingdom has had no trashers, or not enough terminal space, when a Lookout would have been the best thing ever. I almost always buy it unless there's a trash-two.

Plus, the topdeck and discard are enablers for other cards like Tunnel and Mystic.
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Asper

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2016, 12:11:25 pm »
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The cards that are bad in Seaside are bad because they are too good. Pirate Ship. Ambassador. Wharf. The weaklings don't worry me. Well, maybe Navigator, but all the other cards have their place. And yes, this absolutely includes Pirate Ship.
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A Ladder

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2016, 12:28:49 pm »
+2

From a Kingdom designers POV, Embargo can be a neat way of nerfing a powerful but monolithic strategy on a board. If there is a fairly strong engine, do you really want to go Rebuild and gain at least 4 Curses? Plus it can also make keeping your strategy secret a while longer useful. I like when it matters if your opponent can't figure out your strategy right away.

This is precisely why I like embargo. Oh Cultist is on the board? I'm going to open double embargo and kill it. (Also, works with any other card that I dislike for producing single card strategies.)

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2016, 12:29:45 pm »
0

The cards that are bad in Seaside are bad because they are too good. Pirate Ship. Ambassador. Wharf. The weaklings don't worry me. Well, maybe Navigator, but all the other cards have their place. And yes, this absolutely includes Pirate Ship.

Pirate Ship isn't too good by any stretch, even in 4P where it's more likely to hit. It still takes at least X plays to be a terminal worth X coins, and in the early game it still mostly trashes Copper.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2016, 01:35:06 pm »
+1

From a Kingdom designers POV, Embargo can be a neat way of nerfing a powerful but monolithic strategy on a board. If there is a fairly strong engine, do you really want to go Rebuild and gain at least 4 Curses? Plus it can also make keeping your strategy secret a while longer useful. I like when it matters if your opponent can't figure out your strategy right away.

I agree. Sometimes there's a backdoor though. I recently Embargoed Cultists twice, and my opponent responded a few turns later by Stonemasoning for 2 Cultists. Ouch.
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timchen

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2016, 02:30:11 pm »
0

hmm. Seems more people dislike Navigator than Explorer. I don't understand.

Navigator is pretty weak, but I think it's choice-to-cycle ability is decent in quite some situations. It can certainly cost $3 but I don't feel there is a significant difference between $3 and $4 anyways. Maybe the worst aspect is that it is a terminal so one might want to think it does nothing when you choose not to discard, and it does not provide as much utility to other cards that care about the content of the deck. I feel that is actually not against the card though, because it makes the card more situational.

On the other hand I feel explorer is a card I care less of. It is almost a vanilla silver gainer. That itself is fine for its power level, just I feel it is a bit boring. The collide-with-Province ability I feel is very situational since except with TfB mostly when you want gold you cannot make them reliably collide. Then it almost make this card a vanilla silver gainer + 1 trick pony. In general I am just not a fan of a very special effect that only has one usage.

I voted for pearl diver, haven, and explorer.

Pretty funny, they all appeared in a puzzle I did a few years back, which I am still proud of the solution.
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trivialknot

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Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2016, 02:33:38 pm »
+2

From a Kingdom designers POV, Embargo can be a neat way of nerfing a powerful but monolithic strategy on a board. If there is a fairly strong engine, do you really want to go Rebuild and gain at least 4 Curses? Plus it can also make keeping your strategy secret a while longer useful. I like when it matters if your opponent can't figure out your strategy right away.
Unfortunately, Embargo vs Rebuild is not a very good strategy.  In general, embargo is good against strategies that commit themselves, things that your opponent will have trouble backing out of.  Rebuild fits the bill, but the problem is, they really aren't buying that many Rebuilds after they've committed.  In a non-mirror, the Rebuild player needs 2 duchies and 8 plays of rebuild.  4 Curses is pretty optimistic.

Furthermore, remember that the Rebuild player can embargo you right back.  Embargo is a decent card for the Rebuild player, since it gives something to buy on <$5 hands, helps them hit $5, and then removes itself from the deck, leaving more space to play Rebuild.  Also, Province is an excellent target for Embargo, since the Rebuild player never buys them directly.
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