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Author Topic: Dominion and Intrigue second editions  (Read 240896 times)

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Seprix

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #275 on: September 25, 2016, 12:33:06 pm »
+7

I have a lot to say about the new cards. I will start with the removed cards first (Base and Intrigue), and then I will get to discussing the new cards in proper detail.

Secret Chamber: I'm probably one of the few people who actually likes Secret Chamber's on-play effect as a card. It worked well enough with Scrying Pool and Tactician decks. However, Storeroom and Vault do the same thing but better. Secret Chamber will not be missed. The reaction is just plain awful.

Great Hall: People always talk about how much they love Great Hall. I don't get the love. It's a cantrip Estate. What's the big deal? It's pretty awful design, and it's something you buy when you have nothing better to buy. Never a good way to design a card. Sure, Mill isn't great, but at least it provides options sometimes. Great Hall is just plain boring, which is the worst crime a Dominion card can commit.

Coppersmith: Out of all of the Dominion cards replaced, I am going to miss Coppersmith the most. Let's face it, Coppersmith's effect is really cool. If it only had a +buy, it would be a lot stronger. A lot of players play with this once or twice and then give up on it. I think it is worth salvaging for another expansion, and I am certain Donald will do some refreshing take on the concept then.

Scout: Scout had to go. It is the worst card in Dominion.

Saboteur: Saboteur had the amazing ability to make you very angry at your opponent while still knowing you would just likely win the game. Saboteur is just a pure awful card. It's not fun getting hit with it, and it's not fun to use. Even Swindler is a card that is fun to use sometimes, even when I have such a mixed relationship with it.

Tribute: I wish Donald had kept Tribute, or perhaps just buffed it. It was a weak card, but I will have more to say on this when we reach Courtier.

Adventurer: This card needed to be replaced. It was almost never good. The only time it was nice is when Venture basically did the same thing but better, and for cheaper. Adventurer might be just as bad at $3. It's basically a 'can't miss' Moat draw, and it also skips Actions to boot. It would be a fine BM card then, at least.

Spy: Spy is not a fun card, and that is its gravest sin. Spy is fine enough as a card, although it is a bit on the weaker side. However, waiting for ages for the opponent to make a decision with multiple Spies on Dominion Online implementations was the worst thing since Pol Pot, so I am perfectly fine with this card burning in development hell for eternity.

Thief: Thief is just plain ol' awful. I don't really have to say anything about Thief, do I?

Feast: I had a proposed fix for Feast where if you trashed it as well, it would do the same effect as if you played it. This would make it a bit stronger for trash-for-benefit, as well as you not being too sad with a Chapel/Feast opening collision. See? Feast is kind of awesome then! I think the Feast card could be fixed somehow in some way, and I hope we see another variant of Feast in the future.

Chancellor: I like deck discarders a lot, but now that we have Scavenger and Messenger, do we really need Chancellor now? I know I speak for everyone when I say we will miss that butt chin.

Woodcutter: A sad card. Out of all of the cards, Woodcutter was simply the most likely to get canned.

Now onto the new cards.

Courtier: This might be worse than Tribute. At least Tribute provided +Actions in some engines. Courtier does not provide anything of use besides a sucky +buy. Courtier proves that people will pay $5 for a +buy. Courtier is a 'suck it up you loser' card. It also buffs Dame Josephine.  ;D I feel like people misread this card sometimes as well. Courtier will be nice with cards like Bridge Troll or other Attack Durations. However, out of all of the new cards, Courtier is likely the saddest of the bunch.

Diplomat:
I hate this card too. It's a really eh Reaction. It's basically the fixed version of Secret Chamber's deck inspection. It's still word hell. Draw two cards and if you have 5 cards you get +2 actions and when someone plays an attack card you get to draw two and discard three and I still hate it. Imagine using this card as the only village though. That would be kind of a neat challenge.

Lurker: This is the ultimate $2 card. It's a fine opening on a $5/$2, and it eventually pays off. It's lumbering and slow, but I do enjoy this card very much.

Mill: Why does everyone hate this card? It's so much better than Great Hall. Oh no, you might have to discard two cards and get $2 out of it. It combos with so many draw to X cards, and it's also choice based and makes you think, unlike dumb ol' Great Hall. I love Mill.

Patrol: This might be a great BM card. It makes your next turn a lot better. It can draw upwards of seven cards on a single play. Might be one of the better draw cards in the game. Journeyman is a bit better for engines, but I cannot help but compare Patrol with Journeyman.

Replace: The Remodel we have always hoped for. It's a Remodel with Benefits. It won't ask you for anything in return. It won't bring drama into the home. You can topdeck Action cards and Treasures, or get Provinces and hurt your opponent. It's not a fantastically great card, but it is a good one.

Secret Passage: We lose one horrible card with Secret in the name, and now we get another awful card with Secret in the name. More waiting for the opponent to make the decision on what to discard and where in the deck to discard it. I cannot wait. Ugh.

Artisan: The new 'Feast', although it is more like Altar. I am not certain it is all that great, but it makes you think. It can get Duchies and unlike Altar, you don't have to trash to get them, which is a bonus. Something I have not seen talked about, the card you gain can be topdecked!

Bandit: I don't know why, but I am in love with this card. I know it's not that great, but I just can't help but just like this card. It makes me smile just looking at it. Maybe it recaptures that first Thief game I had. Maybe it's a nostalgia thing. I don't know.

Harbringer: We all knew this card was going to exist one day. All of the experts tell me it is not very strong. I say it is in certin situations. You can chain together a singular Goons every turn (until you shuffle), and you can combo it with other cards as well. You get to topdeck that Fortune over and over. Followers. Trusty Steed. A key draw card. It's versatile. I like it. Many interesting options.

Merchant: Another card I really like, despite being very simple. A super cheap Peddler on the condition that you play a Silver. An engine can support a singular Silver. That's not a problem!

Poacher: Basically the same thing as Merchant, but guaranteed. It also sucks if you emptied them. If your opponent goes mass Poacher, you can punish him by emptying the pile. Poacher makes you not Poach too much, or else you face consequences. It's so thematic! I love it, even though it's pretty much the same as Merchant in execution.

Sentry: WOW this card is strong. It is stronger than Junk Dealer. There's nothing else to say. It's absurd how good this card is.

Vassal: I love that this card is a lame Herald. I also love that it combos with Harbringer and other cards. You also don't have to play the Action card you discard. Options. I like it. This is what Duchess should have been.

Those are my thoughts.
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trivialknot

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #276 on: September 25, 2016, 12:42:06 pm »
+3

Impressions of new cards:

Artisan - At first I missed that the gained card goes to hand, and it just seemed weaker than Altar.  But you can gain to hand!!  And if you gained an action dead, you can just top-deck it.  This seems strong.
Bandit - Thief was an interesting card, but it was so weak that we almost never get to try it.  I'm excited to see a thief-like card that is actually playable.  It still looks weak, but not unplayably weak.
Sentry - So obviously very strong.  There are only a few other trashers that don't decrease your hand size (Masquerade, Spice Merchant).
Poacher - I'm excited to switch to talking about "Poacher variants" instead of "Peddler variants".
Merchant - An interesting Poacher variant.  Newbies tend to miss that silver is a really good card, and this could help them see it.
Harbinger - This seems a lot swingier than Scheme.
Vassal - Nice card, although I think it is on the weak side.  If you draw a Vassal and another terminal, choosing Vassal is a risky decision.

Courtier - This is really bad if you only get one of the options, but great if you get two.  I don't really like the fact that its power seems so arbitrary.
Patrol - This is a lot worse than Scout at countering Rabble.
Replace - A top-decking Remodel is interesting enough, and it's a curser too?  I think it will feel different from most cursers, because it happens only in the greening stage.
Diplomat - Agree with others that this is a confusing card.  It's awful without support, but awesome with it.
Mill - I think this card is, at the moment, being way underrated.  It's comparable to Horse Traders in that it will very often help you hit $5, except it's nonterminal and can be used as a cantrip when you don't want it.  Would buy even without the VP.
Secret Passage - This is an intriguing card.  So do you use this to smooth out your deck, or do you use it as a quasi-fugitive by bottom-decking cards?
Lurker - I think people are overestimating this card.  Playing two ruined villages to gain an action, that's so weak.  I could have bought silvers and then bought the action directly.  Of course, regardless of power level, it's a great card.  It's also nice that it sort of introduces newbies to the idea of pile control, although it doesn't hit you over the head with it.
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RevanFan

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #277 on: September 25, 2016, 02:27:56 pm »
0

Where (online) can I get the Update pack?
When I didn't see it on Amazon, I was hoping to order it from the RGG website, but you can't.

EDIT: nevermind I found (and ordered) it on miniaturemarket.com
How reliable is Miniature Market? I don't want to wait for Amazon, and my FLGS is unreliable for getting games on time.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #278 on: September 25, 2016, 02:30:02 pm »
0

I like that Replace is a late-game curser.
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mameluke

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #279 on: September 25, 2016, 02:30:25 pm »
0

I think we'll have to wait to see what Courtier is really like. To me it just seems odd. A terminal + isn't that bad, Mandarin and Count give you this but with drawbacks. That will probably be most people's first choice, unless they need the buy or the Gold gaining. As for the second, either +Action or +Buy, depending on whatever else is in hand. 

It was mentioned before, but it'll be interesting to see how many cards have 2 or more types. Of course you have to get them in hand for it to mean anything, but lining things up with another useful card might not be that hard (vs. say, Baron in the mid-late game). This does give new meaning to cards that have types that otherwise don't seem to mean much, like Prize, Castle, Gathering, etc.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #280 on: September 25, 2016, 02:39:25 pm »
0

Courtier is generally a weaker Explorer.
Provinces are more common than multi-type cards.
Revealing province practically does the same thing that the gold gain +dollars
Not revealing a multi type card gets you a terminal gold or a gold gain
Not revealing a province gets you a silver and two coins.
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Limetime

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #281 on: September 25, 2016, 02:41:44 pm »
0

I think we'll have to wait to see what Courtier is really like. To me it just seems odd. A terminal + isn't that bad, Mandarin and Count give you this but with drawbacks. That will probably be most people's first choice, unless they need the buy or the Gold gaining. As for the second, either +Action or +Buy, depending on whatever else is in hand. 

It was mentioned before, but it'll be interesting to see how many cards have 2 or more types. Of course you have to get them in hand for it to mean anything, but lining things up with another useful card might not be that hard (vs. say, Baron in the mid-late game). This does give new meaning to cards that have types that otherwise don't seem to mean much, like Prize, Castle, Gathering, etc.
Count is primarily used for trashing. It will much stronger than courtier. Mandrin is really weak and courtier doesn't do much to fix this.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #282 on: September 25, 2016, 02:48:44 pm »
+2

Courtier is generally a weaker Explorer.
Provinces are more common than multi-type cards.
Revealing province practically does the same thing that the gold gain +dollars
Not revealing a multi type card gets you a terminal gold or a gold gain
Not revealing a province gets you a silver and two coins.

To be fair, while Province is in every game, if a multi-type card is in a game, it's going to be a lot easier to get than Province.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #283 on: September 25, 2016, 03:05:34 pm »
+1

I like that Replace is a late-game curser.

It also makes picking Harem over Gold or whatever a little more appealing.
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Seprix

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #284 on: September 25, 2016, 03:06:48 pm »
+3

I like that Replace is a late-game curser.

It also makes picking Harem over Gold or whatever a little more appealing.

You get to topdeck that Harem, so I'm not completely sure. I mean, you end up having to look at it. Ew.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #285 on: September 25, 2016, 03:56:48 pm »
+2

Harbringer:

For a long time I thought this was how it was spelled. It's not a word you hear often so seeing it written you think "har-bringer" but really there's no second r.

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #286 on: September 25, 2016, 03:58:52 pm »
+13

Decided to make a quick goodbye video :P

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #287 on: September 25, 2016, 07:03:51 pm »
+1

Lurker / Lurker / turn 3 Donate seems like a fun opening. At least if there are good Actions that give +$.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #288 on: September 25, 2016, 08:46:39 pm »
0

Decided to make a quick goodbye video :P



Watched and enjoyed.  Will watch the video on the 14 (15 (16)) new cards if you make one.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #289 on: September 25, 2016, 09:46:45 pm »
0

I like that Replace is a late-game curser.

It also makes picking Harem over Gold or whatever a little more appealing.

You get to topdeck that Harem, so I'm not completely sure. I mean, you end up having to look at it. Ew.

Joke's at you, because Harem is here to stay.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #290 on: September 25, 2016, 10:08:36 pm »
+1

Decided to make a quick goodbye video :P

Vidya

Watched and enjoyed.  Will watch the video on the 14 (15 (16)) new cards if you make one.

After watching, I'm even more convinced we should drop the removed cards from the rankings.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #291 on: September 25, 2016, 10:15:02 pm »
0

As for Intrigue, Patrol is quite the Scout buff. It seems kind of strong actually. Also, I'm surprised get another Smithy variant since Envoy was removed for that reason.

Envoy's not from Intrigue, it wasn't removed from anything.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #292 on: September 25, 2016, 10:17:49 pm »
0

As for Intrigue, Patrol is quite the Scout buff. It seems kind of strong actually. Also, I'm surprised get another Smithy variant since Envoy was removed for that reason.

Envoy's not from Intrigue, it wasn't removed from anything.

I think he meant Envoy was removed from Intrigue before the first edition was published.

Quote from: Intrigue Secret History
- Envoy left the set and then became a promo. I am kind of embarassed by it - it left this set because it didn't add enough to the game, and then it became a promo and well that's still an issue, right? It does at least have the merit there of not making people feel as much like they have to have it. But the thing is, we found out we needed the promo the same day it was needed. There was no time to test a new card, and Envoy was one of a small number of cards that had actually had some external playtesting (other than the cards in the set, which I didn't want to give up). And I do like the card; it totally could have made a later expansion, providing some card-drawing for that expansion and a new experience, if not new decks. They can't all be Gardens. It's just sad to have this early on because each card matters more now; with just the main set you only have 25 cards and this one does not carve out much new territory. Anyway I suggested it for the promo and it escaped to promo-land and so much for that. Over time it will matter less that it doesn't add so much.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #293 on: September 25, 2016, 10:39:53 pm »
+5

I think a big winner from Base is Workshop, in terms of both strength and interestingness. We now have twice as many cheap cantrips (ish) (6 up from 3 including TR and Vassal), and of the new ones, they're generally more interesting than "You want as many as possible" - it's risky to have too many Poachers or Vassals without the right support, and you need enough Silvers for Merchant to be worth it (which obviously you can use Workshop to pick up as well).
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #294 on: September 26, 2016, 12:08:33 am »
+4

First impressions!  (Thanks to Nolan, Mameluke and Marcory for compiling the text.)

I wrote this before reading most of the discussion that followed.  I'm reading that discussion now, before posting this, and I'll try to bold any of my observations that weren't already mentioned by others.

Quote
[/u]Artisan Action
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5.
Put a card from you hand on to your deck.

Feast replacement?  No self-trashing though, so this reminds me more of Workshop which hasn't[/b] been removed.  The top-deck requirement is a cool, underused thing to include.  The good thing about it is that it gives the player a more interesting decision than discarding, and it could be either a benefit or a drawback for the card depending on your hand and how you use it.

Oh, maybe this is also partially the Adventurer replacement -- $6 cost, thing goes into your hand.

Quote
Bandit Action
Gain a Gold.
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed treasure other than Copper, and discards the rest.

Basically this is what you always wanted to do with Thief in Base-only games -- trash good treasures, gain the Gold.  Bandit is Thief at its best in Base-only (at least for 2p games).

Quote
Sentry Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.
Trash and/or discard any number of them.
Put the rest back in any order.

Replacement for Spy, right?  Now more functional with expanded surveillance and optional trashing, but without the slow attack.  Seems like a much stronger Lookout, which I'm fond of already.  The name reflects that too!

Quote
Poacher Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+
Discard a card per empty supply pile.

Closest thing to the theoretical basic Peddler so far; AJD mentioned how this is the first "strictly" worse Peddler we've gotten.  It's interesting because it may not actually be a drawback very often -- it obviously doesn't apply early and often not into the mid-game, and when it does start to kick in then you'll often be greening and/or have a way to draw junk into your hand to discard, so it's a minor penalty overall.  The cool design aspect of this extra line is that it doesn't close off design space via "strictly better/worse" walls.

Quote
Harbinger Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile. 
You may put a card from it onto your deck.

RIP fan card name.  I've seen lots of variations on this general concept and made a few fan cards like it myself, so I'm definitely a fan.  It has plenty of uses (obvious one: slower but potentially wider-reaching Scheme), but its main weakness will be Counting House syndrome -- draw it too early in your shuffle and it won't do much for you.

It bothers me a tiny bit that it says "onto your deck" instead of "on top of your deck".

I guess I'll count this as the Chancellor replacement?  Not really similar at all, but they both interact with the discard pile, ha.  Or maybe it's more like Adventurer, but with more flexibility (depending on size of discard pile).

Quote
Merchant Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
The first time you play a Silver this turn +.

I'm surprised that this is in Base instead of in Intrigue, since this is a Coppersmith/Peddler hybrid and Base is already getting Poacher, but I guess Coppersmith wasn't really on-theme for Intrigue anyway.

I don't know about this one.  My first impression is that this would be really easy to use, so it may as well just be a straight up Peddler for $3.  Still, a restriction is a restriction.

Quote
Vassal Action
+
Discard the top card of your deck. If it is an Action card, you may play it.

It's a Herald variant!  It'll play very differently since it's "terminal" and optional, and the guaranteed discard is a small change as well.  Sounds neat.  If you can flip non-terminals with it, it's like an activated Conspirator!

Didn't really identify something as "the Woodcutter replacement", so Vassal can be it.  They're both terminal Silver, sort of!  (I know removals and replacements aren't supposed to match up perfectly.)

Quote
Courtier Action
Reveal a card from your hand.
For each type it has (Action, Attack, etc.), choose one: +1 Action, or +1 Buy, or +, or gain a Gold.'
The choices must be different.

Tribute replacement.  It loses the minor player interaction of Tribute, but lots of inexperienced players disliked it anyway (I've seen plenty of people complain about it being an attack, heh).  The change makes it more reliable, and the Pawn-like choices make it flexible.  The non-vanilla options stand out to me because if you choose those two specifically, this is effectively Explorer.

Quote
Patrol Action
+3 Cards.
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the Victory cards and Curse cards into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

I think this is an excellent new take on Scout.  The 4 card filtering should feel pretty great on top of the +3 cards -- you could draw up to 7 cards in one go!  Most of those 7 cards would be junk, but it would still be fun to have that huge draw from just one play.

Quote
Replace Action/Attack
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to more than the trashed card. If the gained card is an Action or Treasure, put it onto your deck. If it's a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

Remodel variant, not really a direct replacement.  Saboteur maybe, since it's an Attack (but a really different one). 

As a second Curser for Intrigue, it's nice for those groups out there who permaban Torturer.

Quote
Diplomat Action/Reaction
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.

The top is an interesting parallel to Shanty Town.  The reaction makes this the Secret Chamber replacement, and it seems like a good change.  This version of the reaction leaves your hand 1 card smaller, but discarding instead of putting cards back on top is usually going to be better for you, I think.

I'm curious about why it got the awkward phrasing to prevent multiple uses of it.  Did it slow the game too much and become unfun for players as they used it multiple times to try to get a better hand, only to end up hurting themselves?

Quote
Mill Action/Victory
Worth 1
+1 Card
+1 Action.
You may discard 2 cards for

Great Hall, now with a partial Secret Chamber effect.  Sounds like a fine improvement.

Quote
Secret Passage Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.

What stands out to me the most is that this is a variation on the "Lab, discard 1" outtake which was deemed too strong for $4.  Here, instead of discarding, it's "put it anywhere in your deck".  Like Artisan, doing this instead of discarding is a neat change.  I guess it works because putting cards back is often worse than discarding, because you can't just toss the junk.  If you put junk back, it'll come back to hurt you.

With this card, at least you can put the junk on bottom.  You also have the option to top-deck something, or to put it second from the top for combos with Wishing Well and other cantrips that care about the top of your deck.  Are there any other deck positions that really matter besides bottom, top, second from top?  I guess sometimes you'll want to put stuff just low enough that you'll get it next hand, but it won't interfere with any additional draw you'll play this turn.

Overall, I really, really like "put it anywhere in your deck" and I can't believe it didn't exist already.  I wish I had thought of it and put it on some fan cards earlier.

Quote
Lurker Action
+1 Action.
 Choose one: Trash an Action card from the Supply, or gain an Action card from the trash.

I feel like this has to exist as a fan card somewhere already.  It kind of makes me nervous, but I guess it's a good thing that it has some second-player advantage.  If multiple players open with it, it'll be risky for the first person to play it to trash a good action card.  I wonder how often the right move will be to open double Lurker (which, if successful, combine into "Gain any Action card from the Supply").  Probably not often, but... sometimes?



Some notes after reading other posts...

@Seprix -- it's Harbinger, not Harbringer.  I see that J Reggie already pointed it out, but I needed to mention it myself. :P  Also note that the -g sound there is like in "binge". 

@trivialknot -- they'll always be Peddler variants to me.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #295 on: September 26, 2016, 12:40:10 am »
+4

Vassal costs $3.
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Kirian

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #296 on: September 26, 2016, 01:54:50 am »
0

Quote
Harbinger Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile. 
You may put a card from it onto your deck.

This seems like a rather... Demonic... harbinger.

Quote
@Seprix -- it's Harbinger, not Harbringer.  I see that J Reggie already pointed it out, but I needed to mention it myself. :P  Also note that the -g sound there is like in "binge".

Harbinjrer?
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AJD

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #297 on: September 26, 2016, 02:00:51 am »
+4

Quote
Harbinger Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile. 
You may put a card from it onto your deck.

I guess I'll count this as the Chancellor replacement?  Not really similar at all, but they both interact with the discard pile, ha.  Or maybe it's more like Adventurer, but with more flexibility (depending on size of discard pile).

I think it's not that far off from Chancellor—it shares the function of allowing you to get back to a key card from your discard pile without having to wait for a reshuffle.

Quote
Quote
Merchant Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
The first time you play a Silver this turn +.

I don't know about this one.  My first impression is that this would be really easy to use, so it may as well just be a straight up Peddler for $3.  Still, a restriction is a restriction.

Consider the value of openings when you consider low-cost cards. If you open double-Merchant, it does nothing for you—that's why it's not just a Peddler for $3. Even if you open Merchant/Silver, there's only, what, a 44% chance that that Merchant will be a Peddler the first time you play it.

Quote
Didn't really identify something as "the Woodcutter replacement", so Vassal can be it.  They're both terminal Silver, sort of!  (I know removals and replacements aren't supposed to match up perfectly.)

Artisan is also kind of a Woodcutter replacement—the set loses a +buy, but uh gains a gain.

Quote
Quote
Diplomat Action/Reaction
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.

The top is an interesting parallel to Shanty Town.  The reaction makes this the Secret Chamber replacement, and it seems like a good change.  This version of the reaction leaves your hand 1 card smaller, but discarding instead of putting cards back on top is usually going to be better for you, I think.

I guess? The thing I like about Secret Chamber is its defense against deck-top attacks, and this doesn't really help with those.

Quote
Quote
Secret Passage Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.


Overall, I really, really like "put it anywhere in your deck" and I can't believe it didn't exist already.

(Stash)

Quote
Quote
Lurker Action
+1 Action.
 Choose one: Trash an Action card from the Supply, or gain an Action card from the trash.

I feel like this has to exist as a fan card somewhere already.  It kind of makes me nervous, but I guess it's a good thing that it has some second-player advantage.  If multiple players open with it, it'll be risky for the first person to play it to trash a good action card.  I wonder how often the right move will be to open double Lurker (which, if successful, combine into "Gain any Action card from the Supply").  Probably not often, but... sometimes?

Lurker obviously has different strengths and weaknesses, but Fool's Gold seems like a potentially illuminating comparison.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #298 on: September 26, 2016, 02:13:56 am »
0

Quote
Quote
Secret Passage Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.


Overall, I really, really like "put it anywhere in your deck" and I can't believe it didn't exist already.

(Stash)

I meant a card that puts other cards anywhere, rather than just on top or on bottom.  Stash especially doesn't count because it's only on the reshuffle, which is a totally different dynamic than Secret Passage.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #299 on: September 26, 2016, 02:17:02 am »
0

this.
Quote
Diplomat Action/Reaction
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.

The top is an interesting parallel to Shanty Town.  The reaction makes this the Secret Chamber replacement, and it seems like a good change.  This version of the reaction leaves your hand 1 card smaller, but discarding instead of putting cards back on top is usually going to be better for you, I think.

I guess? The thing I like about Secret Chamber is its defense against deck-top attacks, and this doesn't really help with those.
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