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Author Topic: Dominion and Intrigue second editions  (Read 241529 times)

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Chris is me

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #100 on: September 22, 2016, 09:44:43 am »
+4

Considering we didn't know this existed until like 12 hours ago, and the rule book will be out sometime in the next 7 days, I think we can all be patient and wait for it. Right?

I mean, we knew future prints of Intrigue wouldn't come with Base Cards, but that's about it.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2016, 09:54:42 am »
+4

Considering we didn't know this existed until like 12 hours ago, and the rule book will be out sometime in the next 7 days, I think we can all be patient and wait for it. Right?

I mean, we knew future prints of Intrigue wouldn't come with Base Cards, but that's about it.

Waiting for the rulebook seems fairly easy.

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2016, 09:57:42 am »
+2

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...

Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website.  I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2016, 10:08:15 am »
0

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...

Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website.  I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.

so, you've seen actual cards yet??
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2016, 10:09:17 am »
0

This gives me hope that one day Dark Ages will be reprinted with revised versions of Rebuild and Cultist, and that one day Alchemy will be reprinted, without Possession.

Why do so many people whine about Rebuild? It's really an awful card that almost never wins against anything competent.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2016, 10:12:00 am »
0

Also, a question for the ShuffleIt devs. Will it be possible to play with the old cards as well as the new ones, even if they are functionally worse? Just have it as an option to click or unclick?
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2016, 10:13:16 am »
0

Considering we didn't know this existed until like 12 hours ago, and the rule book will be out sometime in the next 7 days, I think we can all be patient and wait for it. Right?

I mean, we knew future prints of Intrigue wouldn't come with Base Cards, but that's about it.

Waiting for the rulebook seems fairly easy.
Clearly youre not as obsessed as I am.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #107 on: September 22, 2016, 10:14:39 am »
+3

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...

Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website.  I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.

so, you've seen actual cards yet??

http://www.dominion-welt.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/S160160DomEmpiASSD_SR_LowRes_72dpi.pdf
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2016, 10:18:55 am »
0

Coppersmith is one of the funniest cards of the game, i would be so terribly sad if it were out.
Making coppers better fits nicely the intrigue sub theme "make base cards better" Baron (estate) and Duke (duchy).
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #109 on: September 22, 2016, 10:27:42 am »
+1

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...

Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website.  I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.

so, you've seen actual cards yet??

http://www.dominion-welt.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/S160160DomEmpiASSD_SR_LowRes_72dpi.pdf

I saw a German copy of Empires yesterday.

Maybe the card "you can't believe [Donald] took out" is Chapel.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2016, 10:29:10 am »
+4

Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...

Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website.  I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.

so, you've seen actual cards yet??

http://www.dominion-welt.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/S160160DomEmpiASSD_SR_LowRes_72dpi.pdf

I saw a German copy of Empires yesterday.

Maybe the card "you can't believe [Donald] took out" is Chapel.

Yeah, you only ever need it if you have a bunch of curses or something  ;)

Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2016, 10:54:07 am »
+5

I think we can figure most of the deleted cards out from the Dominion time machine thread. There's 6 cards in each of Dominion and Intrigue. Let's see what Donald said about what he would fix given the chance:

Quote
I'm there for you guys with the tough answers.

Main set:

The big thing is to add more replayability. There are six vanilla cards and probably five would have been fine; the obvious one to replace is Woodcutter. Woodcutter is a fine card for the main set but the other vanilla cards are all better. That means all of the +buy cards would cost $5 but I can live with that. After that, Feast adds very little. Chancellor doesn't add much and would have been better in Intrigue (where it came from); the fact that it's a puzzler is way better in an expansion than in the main set. And finally there's Spy. Spy is slow to resolve, that's the big thing. Over the years I have learned that ideally Spy-type attacks don't have +1 action, or don't involve a decision, or both. Rabble is exactly what I want. Spy has +1 action and involves a decision, so you potentially make tons of decisions per turn. I like decisions but man Spy is not where to get them. It initially got to interact with two attacks that trashed cards from the top of your deck, and that's cool, but now it only interacts with Thief (in the main set that is), and that combo just isn't worth the slot.

The way to think of these things is, imagine the replacement cards. Let's say I just take out Woodcutter and Feast and put in Wishing Well and Coppersmith. Those are not top-of-the-line adored-by-all go-in-every-deck cards. But they still give you more to do than Woodcutter and Feast do.

It would be nice if Thief were stronger, but it already scares new players, and once everyone was new. There are some wording tweaks; Throne Room and Moneylender should of course say "you may." I would try coloring the coins on the treasures. The Trash card should be a mat instead.

There are people who complain about various other cards, but I am happy with those, so there.

I think this means the following:

- Woodcutter is clearly gone and replaced with a non-vanilla card.
- Feast is gone.
- Chancellor is gone, and maybe some fixed version of it will move to Intrigue. Although I'm not 100% sure, now that Scavenger and Messenger exist Donald might find it unnecessary.
- Spy is replaced with a different card that requires fewer decisions.
- Thief might be removed entirely or it might get a buff, but doing so is of course hard without turning it into Noble Brigand.

I think it's safe to say these 5 cards will get the banhammer (or a serious overhaul). Which card will be the sixth one? Adventurer seems to be most obvious based on our experience as players, but I don't think there's anything more we can say based on the information we have.

Throne Room and Moneylender get the fixes Donald has wanted for a long time. What we didn't know is that he'd also fix Mine, but I guess it makes sense. And the trash card is now a mat, as predicted. Moving on.

Quote
Intrigue:

Saboteur is the biggest mistake here. Some people hate it because it can trash Provinces, some because it's an attack that doesn't make resources (which was a surprise but there it is), some just don't like it because it's weak. Some people like it, but the kind of person who wants an attack like this deserves one that has fewer strikes against it - like, Swindler, there you go.

Moats have to be on the weak side, but I would probably still try to improve Secret Chamber. It also has the issue of making reactions confusing - the whole business of, reveal Secret Chamber, resolve it, reveal a Moat I drew off of it. It would be better to avoid that issue, even if it meant just not doing Secret Chamber's reaction.

I would look at ways to buff Scout. I would consider changing Mining Village to avoid invoking the enigmatic "lose track" rule. I would consider whether I like Bridge and Coppersmith as is, in their Throne-able glory, or if I would rather phrase them the way I think such stuff in general should be phrased, like Highway etc. Masquerade originally triggered gain/trash things; I would look at that again, but honestly I would be unlikely to just reword it to address the King's Court / Masquerade / Goons combo. Masquerade has a clear simple wording and I would rather kill the card than make the wording awful, an awful that you dear reader may be mystified as to the awfulness of, I have come to terms with that. But I'm not sure I need to kill the combo and Masquerade is a pretty cool card.

- Saboteur is gone, and maybe replaced with a trashing attack that has 'fewer strikes against it', but maybe it's just deleted altogether because there's already Swindler, and a completely different card takes its place. Also, apparently Swindler is staying, great!
- Secret Chamber is replaced by a different Reaction card.
- Scout gets a buff or it might turn into a different card entirely.
- Mining Village gets changed to avoid the lose track rule.

The other 2 cards are still unclear. Masquerade is fixed, even though Donald said earlier that he didn't want to kill the KC/Masq/Goons combo (sadness), but it doesn't count because it's a fairly minor change. Bridge has been confirmed to stay as it is, but Coppersmith has not, which makes me think that Coppersmith is leaving (much sadness). And the sixth card... again, no clue whatsoever, but many people in this thread have said Harem due to flavor and artwork issues. I guess that would make sense.

---

Therefore, my predictions would be:

Base: Woodcutter, Feast, Chancellor, Spy, Thief, Adventurer(?)
Intrigue: Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Scout, Mining Village, Coppersmith, Harem(?)
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2016, 11:06:31 am »
+2

I'd be seriously disappointed if Adventurer stays. To me it's the most blatant offense of cards being unbalanced. All the other awful cards tried to do something unique atleast, so it was harder to balance them. But this is just simple draw that is awful.

Also a wording tweak on Mining Village might be good enough? My guess would be that Tribute replaces it in Aleimons list.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2016, 11:08:05 am »
0

I'd be seriously disappointed if Adventurer stays. To me it's the most blatant offense of cards being unbalanced. All the other awful cards tried to do something unique atleast, so it was harder to balance them. But this is just simple draw that is awful.

Also a wording tweak on Mining Village might be good enough? My guess would be that Tribute replaces it in Aleimons list.

Yeah, I think Donald would have said if Mining Village got even a small functional change.

Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #114 on: September 22, 2016, 11:08:57 am »
0

Also a wording tweak on Mining Village might be good enough? My guess would be that Tribute replaces it in Aleimons list.

Possibly, but if Mining Village only got a wording tweak, Donald would have mentioned it in the same post as Masquerade's wording tweak. Mining Village either stays exactly as it is (functionally), or gets replaced/overhauled completely. I put my money on the latter mainly because it's a card he specifically mentioned in the Time Machine thread, unlike Tribute (or even Harem).
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Chris is me

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #115 on: September 22, 2016, 11:11:34 am »
0

Inwouldn't be surprised to have Conspirator replaced with a card that does Peddler style action card counting, and maybe to make up for that it gets conditional +Buy? Perhaps that's too much. Or just a totally different card.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #116 on: September 22, 2016, 11:18:23 am »
0

Pawn might get the ax because of it's AP.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #117 on: September 22, 2016, 11:37:34 am »
+1

Inwouldn't be surprised to have Conspirator replaced with a card that does Peddler style action card counting, and maybe to make up for that it gets conditional +Buy? Perhaps that's too much. Or just a totally different card.

NOOOOOOO CONSPIRATOR IS MY BAE
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #118 on: September 22, 2016, 11:40:00 am »
0

This gives me hope that [...] one day Alchemy will be reprinted, without Possession.

Oooh, a second edition of Alchemy with twice as many cards.  SUATMM.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #119 on: September 22, 2016, 11:42:00 am »
+2

So, Instead of wondering what will be removed, let's specualte about what will (or won't) be added?

Base
-Another +Buy card, and probably cheap. Donald says he can live with all the +Buy being , but with the addition of an extra 7th card a +Buy for or seems likely. +2 Buys might make a return.
-A top deck attack, like spy or theif. I don't think theif will get buffed as we already have Noble Brigand. A cool thing would be putting cards from the discard pile back on other player's decks, like Ghost Ship except without reducing handsize.
-A gainer, possibly with a drawback. Think Banquet. If there isn't I can see something very simmilar to Asper's Artisan getting included.
-Another village. The base set only has 2 and it can get annoying with all the terminals, and least 1 new village seems good. Possibly a gaining village, or an attack village as those haven't really been done. Of course, attack village could be too simmilar to Spy.
-Another trasher. Chapel is an amazing trasher so something more mediocre, only trashing 1 or 2 cards at a time would be nice.
~A "Deck into discard pile". Seems unlikely especially with Scavenger and Messanger. One in intruige is a possibilty however.
~Stealing other player's things, like Theif. Too intimidating for new players.

Intruige:
-A card with VP at the bottom. It's intruige's cool thing and it would seem lame in any other expansion. I've seen some fan cards that do it well, and if Harem or Great Hall gets the ax this would really be a shoo-in.
-An optional one shot, but without the tracking issues. A lot of Enterprise could make it into intruige with some changes.
-A card that cares about copper. Probably not as an attack, but a copper gainer would be cool and maybe having it in intuige would help Coppersmith.
-A card that seems like an attack but isn't. Tribute could be redone as a weaker, less swingy version. It's a fun card and if it's problems were to be fixed I'd want it back in.
~A card with a lot of choices, like Pawn. Too much AP.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #120 on: September 22, 2016, 12:01:52 pm »
+4

That is quite a codpiece on that... prince?  King?  On the new Intrigue cover.

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #121 on: September 22, 2016, 12:05:51 pm »
+1

Yikes, that King is rocking the fancy white hair! Is that the child of Milo Yiannopoulos and Boris Johnson!?
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #122 on: September 22, 2016, 12:10:04 pm »
+17

I think Empires has hints as to what won't make it. Keep in mind the rulebook mentions Intrigue 2nd Edition, so the recommended Kingdoms were likely made with this in mind. With that said, Harem and Mining Village are used, so I don't think they are out. Also Pawn and Torturer are used as well.
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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #123 on: September 22, 2016, 12:17:34 pm »
+3

I think Empires has hints as to what won't make it. Keep in mind the rulebook mentions Intrigue 2nd Edition, so the recommended Kingdoms were likely made with this in mind. With that said, Harem and Mining Village are used, so I don't think they are out. Also Pawn and Torturer are used as well.

We also probably won't be saying goodbye to Bureaucrat and Cellar, but Chapel isn't in there...

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Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« Reply #124 on: September 22, 2016, 12:18:19 pm »
0

I also hear the card corners will be less rounded.
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