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Author Topic: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)  (Read 24162 times)

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ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #175 on: September 22, 2017, 08:18:34 am »
0

looks like you added the + to make it look more than it is.
Yeah, basically. It was so minor it just got left in there, and I thought, why not? Just makes it look slightly better so why change it?

 Anyways, you'll be happy to know I'll be adding cards soon and reach 400, then I'll drop the "almost".
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robbcs

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #176 on: October 01, 2017, 01:52:06 pm »
+1

Hey, I've had this idea for years and never see it in an expansion...

EXECUTIONER

Cost : 9

Action, Attack

"Each opponent reveals their hand and must trash one card of your choosing."



Cool, yeah?  Expensive, terminal, and ugly.  :)  Putting it at an above-province cost makes for a hard choice, I think, as when you get to province buying levels, what boards would support a terminal card this aggressive?  And what if you hit this with a king's court?!  Moats and reactions are suddenly immensely more valuable, as are fast strategies to keep opponents from buying this card (and shuffling it through their deck to be played).


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ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2017, 03:18:24 pm »
+2

Hi there! Welcome to the forums.

Your card idea has in fact been suggested before (I think on BGG), but it's not a good card. Here are a few problems with it:

1) Stalemate Games. You trash all of your opponents cards, and the game restarts with no cards in hand.
2) Swingy. If you get lucky, you can trash your opponent's Executioner or Province early and get a huge advantage.
3) Discarding. If you play 5 of these then you can make an opponent trash through their whole hand. It is terminal, but with village support or in multiplayer games this is unfun.

I would suggest reading the Fan Card Creation Guide, sticked at the top of this subforum. It's full of great tips.
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McGarnacle

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2017, 05:47:33 pm »
+1

Hey, I've had this idea for years and never see it in an expansion...

EXECUTIONER

Cost : 9

Action, Attack

"Each opponent reveals their hand and must trash one card of your choosing."



Cool, yeah?  Expensive, terminal, and ugly.  :)  Putting it at an above-province cost makes for a hard choice, I think, as when you get to province buying levels, what boards would support a terminal card this aggressive?  And what if you hit this with a king's court?!  Moats and reactions are suddenly immensely more valuable, as are fast strategies to keep opponents from buying this card (and shuffling it through their deck to be played).

I have to agree with Theta. This doesn't really work for everything already mentioned. Warrior and Knight are already kinda hated, this would be a million times worse.

Welcome to the forums!
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Asper

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2017, 06:57:23 pm »
+3

"Extremely expensive and extremely brutal attack" is one of what I would call the four "bad fan card archetypes". The others are "Strong cards that curse yourself", "Attack deflectors" and "Veto reactions". They come up so often because the idea is rather simple, but why they are bad isn't exactly easy to spot for inexperienced fan card designers. Been there, done that. Not to say that all of these are inherently doomed, but the most simple approach isn't working, that's for sure.

josh56

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #180 on: October 03, 2017, 03:08:25 am »
+2

It helps a lot to read though Donald's stuff so that you start from a higher plateau and don't have to repeat all the mistakes (like trashing attacks without a Knights-like price range or a Saboteur-like downgrading).
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #181 on: October 20, 2017, 02:54:22 pm »
+8

Hey, anyone up for a game of Nocturne?


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ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #183 on: October 20, 2017, 10:19:14 pm »
+2

No Necromancer?
Man, I already through your werewolf in. Some people I just can't please...  ;D
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Asper

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #184 on: October 20, 2017, 10:39:34 pm »
+2

No Necromancer?
Man, I already through your werewolf in. Some people I just can't please...  ;D

Yeah, you're right. There's already a bad enough attack in the kingdom with Werewolf. :D

Huh, curiously Raiders, Werewolf and Necromancer ALL are attack cards (edit: Yeah, not technically, but Necromancer implies an attack on the board). Weird.
So, how do you play this kingdom?

Asper

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #185 on: October 21, 2017, 12:28:07 am »
+1

Probably going to open Cobbler/Bard, by the way. Those are both cute. Oh wait, technically I just need to avoid buying Gold or Idol in this game to ignore the negative VP from Curses, right? I guess confusions are still pretty bad... Monastery is interesting, but doesn't that hurt too much? And can the player name Copper there? Early in the game, that's probably the best thing to do. Lots of revealing going on here, too.

Either way, I never really noticed Cobbler as a fan card before. It's neat.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #186 on: October 21, 2017, 08:22:34 am »
+1

Yeah, the game seems like a bit of a slog.  Cobbler-Bard definitely seems like the best opener. I might try to pick up a Fool later too so I can discard it with Cobbler. For me the big wild card is Crypt, it costs so you could pile it for Cobbler/Bard/Crypt, but all those Confusions might hurt you.
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dedicateddan

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #187 on: November 28, 2017, 01:40:54 am »
+1

Can we make this happen?

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volfied

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #188 on: February 04, 2018, 07:12:53 pm »
+2

Hello all,

I've spent much of today reading through this thread. I'm planning to print some fan expansion cards for myself and figured I'd find a couple other decent ones to pad out the print run. Came away with rather more than I'd bargained for thanks to all your excellent work.

I've come up with a few cards (some recently, others long ago) that I thought I'd run past you in case you have any input.



A few things that are already rolling around in my head:
  • Phoenix: The phrasing of the complex OR statement could be better. I worry it's a little OP.
  • Robber Baron: May be a little underpowered for $5.
  • Money Changers: Phrasing of the "exchange" concept is hard to get just right. Used to gain cards to your hand instead of discarding. Might still be OP.
  • Crop Rotation: Something very similar already exists among the fan cards. I think it's an Event.
  • Occupied Village: Forfeiting actions being a novel concept, I'm not sure this is the best possible phrasing. Also toyed with a version called Final Act that cost $3, had +1 Card (or +1 Action) instead of +2 Actions, and forced you to forfeit all your unused actions for a draw each. Still not sure which I like better.
  • Land Grab: I hate all the Victory shields in this description, but I can't think of a better approach. Used to say "[shield] value" where applicable, but decided to drop "value". Does the meaning convey through all the muddle?
  • Master of the Mint: This one just occurred to me last night. Is twice the face value in coin tokens too high? Should it be just the face value in both debt and coin? There doesn't seem to be much commentary on debt in prices, so I'm eyeballing this one a bit.

I'm genuinely interested in any critiques you can offer. Thank you.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 07:16:46 am by volfied »
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Holunder9

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #189 on: February 05, 2018, 02:18:50 am »
+1

Phoenix is far too good and would auto-win the game for whoever opens 5/2.

Robber Baron looks indeed weak compared to the other gold gainers. I mean, how often do you receive The Sky's Gift and not discard for Gold?

Money Changers could perhaps use the "pass" wording from Masquerade. I don't think that it is that strong and that it could get away with putting the exchanged Treasures into your hand.

I don't get Crop Rotation. It is a narrow Tactician variant that is only good for BM. Did you intend to make it possible to trigger Crop Rotation several times per turn? Tactician is worded such that this is, border cases aside, impossible.

I don't get Occupied Village. Unless there are other villages or TR variants in the Kingdom this is just a Moat, a Necropolis or a cantrip. Even TR+ Occupied Village is just a Laboratory (+2 Actions, +2 Actions, use 3 Actions for +3 Cards).

Land Grab looks cool, especially due to the last option which makes the endgame more interesting. It probably should feature some vanilla stuff like "+2 Cards" though, otherwise it might be too hard to pair this up with your green.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #190 on: February 05, 2018, 03:16:01 am »
+1

Phoenix could lose the card drawing part and then almost be balanced at $5.

Robber Baron could easily cost $3 (compare to Tunnel).

I have used a fan-made card (by liopoil) very similar to Occupied Village. The only differences are its cost and that it allows you to look at the top card of your deck before deciding if you want to use an action to draw a card. It's a decent card at $3 cost.

volfied

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #191 on: February 05, 2018, 07:31:50 am »
+2

Okay, so sounds like Phoenix needs to be nerfed. (Which I'd actually already done. Made this one ages ago. Used to be "trash any number of cards and draw two cards per". Clearly excessive.)

Robber Baron's similarity to Tunnel hadn't hit me, for some reason. Still, discarding your hand makes it a little tough. However, if something like Tunnel makes it so easy to gain Golds, then perhaps this is too steep a price to pay.

I'll have to do a little play testing again with Money Changers and see how it fares. Maybe it's not OP, even with gain to hand.

Holunder9: How would you stack Crop Rotation? Doesn't discarding your hand and -1 action prevent that? (Actually, doesn't "discard your hand" make the -1 Action unnecessary? Or is there a way around that?) I do wonder whether it's worth it as a weak (albeit, cheaper) Tactician, as you've said.

I see your point about Occupied Village. Perhaps making it +3 Actions? I would think the cost would have to stay at 4 if I did that, since it would be strictly superior to Village. I do like liopoil's version. Simple and elegant.

I think you're right about Land Grab needing a draw. Would +2 Cards be too much, though? I could see +1 Cards without raising the price.

Added one more card that occurred to me last night.
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Holunder9

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #192 on: February 05, 2018, 08:19:16 am »
+1

I am not sure about Master of Mint. It is a fairly weak Copper trasher and for trashing higher-valued Treasures it is strictly weaker (albeit also cheaper) than the two existing cards that do something similar, Capital and Counterfeit. Of course it will be bought if there is no other trasher around but it is still weak and I don't think that the card does anything  really new.
There are also rules issues with Treasures like Fool's Gold,Bank and Fortune that don't have what you call face value but a conditional one.

Holunder9: How would you stack Crop Rotation? Doesn't discarding your hand and -1 action prevent that? (Actually, doesn't "discard your hand" make the -1 Action unnecessary? Or is there a way around that?) I do wonder whether it's worth it as a weak (albeit, cheaper) Tactician, as you've said.
You are right that unlike with Tactician you cannot (ignoring border cases like Ghost Town, Fishing Village and Coin of the Realm) play a Crop Rotation in the second turn. But you can play several Crop Rotations in the first turn as it doesn't feature Tactician's anti-stack wording: "If you have at least one card in hand, discard your hand ..."
I just wonder whether this is intentional as it is not necessarily bad but creates an interesting conflict concerning villages : they would be brilliant in the first turn but dead in the second.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #193 on: February 05, 2018, 12:29:20 pm »
+1

Thanks for posting here! Lemme give you my thoughts. I generally tend to focus on what's unique/interesting/never-been-done, because I've been around the Variants forum for a while, and other people usually handle the Balance.

Phionex: As others have said, this is too powerful. That being said, the concept of a trasher that replaces itself like Engineer is interesting.  It's mainly the trashing that skews the card, especially with the drawing. I would make it
Quote
+1 Action
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you didn't trash any cards this way, trash this and gain an Action card costing up to , and play it.
A bit Vanilla, but whatever.

Robber Baron: Insanely weak, and not interesting. The cost is expensive, and the is tacked on, and Gold gaining is boring. I don't think you can save this one.

Money Changers: The wording is bad, and the concept is iffy. I'm guessing you and your group like the basics of the card and if you do that's fine, it should just maybe get some better wording, probably based of Masq:
Quote
Each other player reveals their hand. You may pass a Treasure from your hand to any other player, to gain a Treasure from their hand costing up to more.

Crop Rotation: I would just have this skip your action phase next turn. It's not anything new under the sun, and maybe a bit too powerful.

Occupied Village: Done before, and it has a problem of either boring on it's own or too powerful in tandem with other cards.

Land Grab: Counting points on a Victory card has always been a problem, and you can tackle however you want.  With a vanilla bonus it sounds fun though.

Master of the Mint: I like it. It should be worded:
Quote
Play a Treasure from your hand, then trash it. For each coin it produced, take 2 and 2 Coin tokens.
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Gazbag

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #194 on: February 05, 2018, 12:39:36 pm »
+2

Phoenix: Broken card! The trashing is obscene and even the 2nd ability alone seems like it would be a reasonable $5. Maybe a Phoenix card would gain an Ash when trashed and the Ash can gain the Phoenix back from the trash?

Robber Baron: Very similar to Leprechaun. But more expensive with a worse drawback and no Wish potential. I don't think the 1 vp makes it different enough and $5 is too expensive.

Money Changers: I'm not sure how this works in 3+ player. Do I exchange a different card with each other player or the same one? I think Taxman is doing something similar to this but in a much simpler way. Maybe this could just be a reverse Mine attack or something?

Crop Rotation: You can Throne Room this to double the next turn effect because the effect isn't conditional upon actually discard cards, unlike Tactician. This also gives you -2 Actions next turn, how does that work?

Occupied Village: This seems weak, although I can see it working at $2 or $3. If you make it give +3 Actions it becomes strictly better than Lab and would have to cost $6 at least (or have some other drawback). I think it would be more interesting being cheaper and weaker and relying on other cards to be good.

Land Grab: The only use I can see for the second part of this would be to gain Feodum or Vineyards or whatever when they're worth low vp and then get a bunch of stuff to increase their value, which seems pretty impossible to track anyway (or just to empty a pile of course). It seems kind of situational though and the top part would be much simpler if it just set aside a Victory (like a repeatable Island). So I'm not sure whether this tortured wording and weird clauses is worth it?

Master of the Mint: I like the name! It seems just like a weak Moneylender/confusing Counterfeit? The debt cost is also strange.
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Asper

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #195 on: February 05, 2018, 05:48:35 pm »
+2

I like Gazbag's Ash suggestion for Phoenix, although it kind of makes Phoenix a Vampire variant (with some Wish put into it).

I also like the suggestion to make Money Changers an attack that basically performs a reverse Mine, although it's perhaps a bit nasty.

Master of the Mint reminds me of "Investment", which I once did and dropped for its redundancy to Capital. This here adds trashing, but the face value stuff introduces a new expression, which I don't dig that much.

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #196 on: February 05, 2018, 07:09:31 pm »
+1

I feel like Master of the Mint should have some kind of clause to give you the debt at end of turn, like Capital. Otherwise the debt seems a little redundant with the coin tokens.

volfied

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #197 on: February 05, 2018, 09:48:51 pm »
0

Looks like I've got some thinking to do. Thank you all for the feedback. I think I can make most of these work eventually.

Good catch on Master of the Mint, J Reggie.

Anyone have any concrete ideas about how debt in costs should be employed? These came about after Rinkworks' article on card creation, so there's no "official" guidance.
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Holunder9

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #198 on: February 06, 2018, 03:02:48 am »
0

Anyone have any concrete ideas about how debt in costs should be employed? These came about after Rinkworks' article on card creation, so there's no "official" guidance.
Above all you should find a good reason to use Debt costs and not just do it because you want it for the sake of itself.

Take e.g. Engineer, it is better than Workshop but probably not as good as gainers like Ironworks so it should cost something between 3 and 4. Furthermore it shouldn't be able to gain itself, hence Debt costs.

Besides balance and "ungainability" there are timing issues. City Quarter and Royal Blacksmith are powerful cards that would be broken if they were good from the start. But they only become good after you thinned your deck a bit, so Debt costs are fine.

Then there are cards like Overlord or your Master of the Mint which you want early in the game, you want them to be available to everyone but because they are pretty decent you also want them to be expensive.
So if your goal is to make a card expensive and available for everyone at the same time Debt cost it is.
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volfied

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Re: All the Fan Cards You Could Ever Want! (Almost 400+ Cards!)
« Reply #199 on: February 06, 2018, 09:02:25 am »
0

That was pretty much what I was going for with the Master of the Mint: accessible early, but still a little pricey.
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