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Author Topic: Lock your opponent  (Read 2837 times)

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DrHades

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Lock your opponent
« on: January 30, 2012, 04:44:38 pm »
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We all know the KC-Goons-Masquerade combo. But that doesn't always work, because Goons is an attack. So I wonder - is there a combo, that locks your opponent with 0 cards in hand 100%, every turn and no matter what reactions is he using?

Thoughts:

It probably cannot contain any attack played, cause then he should set aside HT. Also KC-Golem-Masquerade sounds nice, but I can't figure out how to make it 100% working on every turn...
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petrie911

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 05:13:54 pm »
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I'm pretty sure KC/KC/Outpost/Masquerade is unblockable.  It even trashes 6 cards, so if you have a non-terminal action that gives coin, you can buy an estate and trash it on the outpost turn.  This lets you run out the estates and win 1-0.
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jomini

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 09:06:01 pm »
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Short answer, no.

Long answer - even the outpost/masq/kc pin .. you can set up some crazy engines that can escape it. For instance, scrying pool/tactician/monument/IW/village can keep scoring points & gaining cards and and keep drawing the entire deck. It is hard to gain 6 cards a turn, but it can be done (i.e. kc/kc/IW.
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jimjam

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 08:25:16 pm »
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I think it's possible. Masquerade an ambassador and/or masquerade to them, possess them (multiple times, preferably), mess up their deck, then junk their next hand (outpost and/or cellar). Then start the pin.
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ftl

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 09:07:56 pm »
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I think it's possible. Masquerade an ambassador and/or masquerade to them, possess them (multiple times, preferably), mess up their deck, then junk their next hand (outpost and/or cellar). Then start the pin.

It's pretty hard to mess up their deck 100% guaranteed. Because with sufficiently bad shuffle luck on the turns you possess them, you might not be able to deal the damage. Even if you masquerade them an ambassador, there's always the chance that you only get to play it that one time. And you can't masquerade them multiple enabler cards, because they can pass them back.
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jimjam

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 04:42:06 am »
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60 turns of possession should mess them up pretty badly.
I suppose if they had an unbounded amount of treasures, and shuffle luck was completely stacked against you, yeah, you wouldn't be able to pin them.
Note that perfectly bad shuffle luck still doesn't nullify the fact that you can choose whether or not to play possession based on what they top-decked or what duration cards they played. So I'm not really seeing it.

A much more simple "unpinnable" opponent is one that has all of the KCs and masquerades, such that you don't have the cards to pin them.
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Davio

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 07:00:24 am »
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I once pinned an opponent with a KC-KC-KC-KC-Masquerade (could be simple KC-Masq of course) hand, but that was fun for neither of us.
Eventually I started buying Coppers again and got a Remake with 4 Provinces left. That's when my opponent resigned.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 09:23:11 am »
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Short answer, no.

Long answer - even the outpost/masq/kc pin .. you can set up some crazy engines that can escape it. For instance, scrying pool/tactician/monument/IW/village can keep scoring points & gaining cards and and keep drawing the entire deck. It is hard to gain 6 cards a turn, but it can be done (i.e. kc/kc/IW.

Well, if we make the pin sufficiently complicated (using 10 full cards so you can exclude tactician and scrying pool, and 2 of each so it rules out black market / young witch), you can probably pull it off.  I would assume the keys would be KC, Scheme, Outpost, and Masquerade, and then enough cantrip type cards to to ensure total deck draw (lab, hunting party, menagerie, market, grand market, throne room should do it). 
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jomini

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Re: Lock your opponent
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 01:10:03 pm »
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Short answer, no.

Long answer - even the outpost/masq/kc pin .. you can set up some crazy engines that can escape it. For instance, scrying pool/tactician/monument/IW/village can keep scoring points & gaining cards and and keep drawing the entire deck. It is hard to gain 6 cards a turn, but it can be done (i.e. kc/kc/IW.

Well, if we make the pin sufficiently complicated (using 10 full cards so you can exclude tactician and scrying pool, and 2 of each so it rules out black market / young witch), you can probably pull it off.  I would assume the keys would be KC, Scheme, Outpost, and Masquerade, and then enough cantrip type cards to to ensure total deck draw (lab, hunting party, menagerie, market, grand market, throne room should do it).

Well I'm not sure this is what the OP had in mind. There is no "combo" that pins your opponent no matter what "reactions" he uses. I submit that 10 card combos are not what was in mind here.

The most secure masq is something like KC/bazaars/outpost/masq. If you get masqed on your final turn before pinning, you hand over a bazaar and then play out the pin (giving away whatever crap they gave you and still trashing 6 cards). You then proceed to obliterate their deck and nothing outside of duration cards can save you.
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