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Author Topic: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good  (Read 7691 times)

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Robz888

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It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« on: September 13, 2016, 09:52:39 am »
+4



Code: [Select]
Ironworks, Messenger, Pirate Ship, Plaza, Scout, Catacombs, Horn of Plenty, Merchant Ship, Vault, Altar

I've been mostly away from the Forums for the past year, so apologies if there's been some paradigm shift and the expert opinion on Scout has shifted. But in my day it was considered the very worst card in all of Dominion. I have gone years without buying it at all.

Well, last night I finally had a game where I acquired a Scout--two Scouts, in fact. And I'm convinced it was the right move. Scout helped my deck! Take a look at the log: https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160913/log.0.1473731690423.txt

So, this is obviously a Horn of Plenty game: we have villages and we have draw. What we don't have is terrific trashing: all we have for that is Altar. I opened Silver / Messenger-Ironworks with the intention of grabbing as many Plazas as possible. My first $6 was an Altar, and it was pretty much Plazas, Horns, and Catacombs after that.

Of course, we quickly ran out of Plazas, which left my Ironworks with nothing to gain, except... Scout. Scout! It's an extra card for the Horns, so that's good. And the re-arrangement effect was useful, because this is sort of a wobbly engine consisting of a major component that doesn't draw anything--the Horns--and I really need my Plazas to find Catacombs. Scout helped. Not a lot, mind you. But in this one, rare case, it was better than nothing.
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Davio

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 10:04:52 am »
+1

I feel cheated because you gained Scouts instead of buying them.  :-\
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 10:30:05 am »
0

I feel cheated because you gained Scouts instead of buying them.  :-\

Yeah, a real fan would have bought them instead of Plazas and Ironworks  :).
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 10:32:36 am »
0

Wow. I'd go for the Vault BM, but then Pirate Ship actually does something for once, and so the engine is too good (and BM too bad) to ignore HoP and the Villages. Win the Village split, win the game. Scout might actually be okay here. I cannot believe it.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 10:34:27 am »
+14

Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 10:42:33 am »
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Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

If we stop talking here, he won't see it.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 10:49:16 am »
+3

I mean, to be fair, Scout's main use here is being another non-terminal unique. I doubt it would be worth it if not for that. The major part of its role in the deck could just as easily have been played by Ruined Village.

I mean, looking at the log, Scout gets played a grand total of two times. The first time, it switches around a Vault and a Catacombs, which helps there, but I don't think the Vault should have been in the deck in the first place. Had that been another Catacombs, there would have been no effect. The second time, it puts two green cards in hand that I also think should not have been in the deck; a HoP deck doesn't want to green before the megaturn.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 10:58:17 am by faust »
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 10:55:57 am »
+1

According to Faust, Ruined Village is better than Scout. And I cannot disagree.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 11:00:05 am »
+1

I mean, to be fair, Scout's main use here is being another non-terminal unique. I doubt it would be worth it if not for that. The major part of its role in the deck could just as easily have been played by Ruined Village.
It KINDA works as two non-terminal uniques, since without it Ironworks would eventually become terminal or even entirely unplayable.  But this really only strengthens your point.

According to Faust, Ruined Village is better than Scout. And I cannot disagree.
::)
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 11:36:23 am »
+3

Ruined Village is strictly better than Scout.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 11:37:32 am »
+7

I mean, to be fair, Scout's main use here is being another non-terminal unique. I doubt it would be worth it if not for that. The major part of its role in the deck could just as easily have been played by Ruined Village.

I mean, looking at the log, Scout gets played a grand total of two times. The first time, it switches around a Vault and a Catacombs, which helps there, but I don't think the Vault should have been in the deck in the first place. Had that been another Catacombs, there would have been no effect. The second time, it puts two green cards in hand that I also think should not have been in the deck; a HoP deck doesn't want to green before the megaturn.

Hi my name is Faust and I'm not fun at parties.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 11:41:37 am »
+2

First Scout gain was way too late here, should have started on them after one or maybe two Villages.

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 11:45:26 am »
0

Ruined Village is strictly better than Scout.
::)
Now you've said it twice I'm less certain that you're joking.
But you have to be.

I'm not missing anything here, right? Ruined village might be the one single card in creation which is worse than Scout.
Well, Curse.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 11:46:38 am »
0

First Scout gain was way too late here, should have started on them after one or maybe two Villages.

Should've opened Messenger/Scout
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 11:48:30 am »
0

First Scout gain was way too late here, should have started on them after one or maybe two Villages.

Should've opened Messenger/Scout
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2016, 11:49:28 am »
0

Ruined Village is strictly better than Scout.
::)
Now you've said it twice I'm less certain that you're joking.
But you have to be.

I'm not missing anything here, right? Ruined village might be the one single card in creation which is worse than Scout.
Well, Curse.

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout. I think I would win more games that way. I'm not spending $4 on something that is basically as good as Ruined Village.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2016, 11:51:33 am »
+7

So this is yet another case of all four Scout conditions (potentially drawing green cards, benefiting from the reordering, benefiting from a non-terminal Action whose name is Scout, and being able to gain it with no opportunity cost) being true and Scout being just slightly better than nothing. It's pretty much what I've been saying for 9 months already and I even wrote an article on the subject.

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout.

No you wouldn't.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2016, 11:56:04 am »
+1

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout.

No you wouldn't.
Well, that's more concise than what I was gonna post.  Summarises it nicely too.  The effort you put into concisifying your posts has never been plainer.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2016, 11:58:44 am »
0

So this is yet another case of all four Scout conditions (potentially drawing green cards, benefiting from the reordering, benefiting from a non-terminal Action whose name is Scout, and being able to gain it with no opportunity cost) being true and Scout being just slightly better than nothing. It's pretty much what I've been saying for 9 months already and I even wrote an article on the subject.

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout.

No you wouldn't.

Edge case: Gardens
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 12:37:05 pm »
+2

Well, Curse.
Curse at least has Defiled Shrine going for it.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2016, 01:16:29 pm »
0

I mean, to be fair, Scout's main use here is being another non-terminal unique. I doubt it would be worth it if not for that. The major part of its role in the deck could just as easily have been played by Ruined Village.

I mean, looking at the log, Scout gets played a grand total of two times. The first time, it switches around a Vault and a Catacombs, which helps there, but I don't think the Vault should have been in the deck in the first place. Had that been another Catacombs, there would have been no effect. The second time, it puts two green cards in hand that I also think should not have been in the deck; a HoP deck doesn't want to green before the megaturn.

You missed my most pivotal play of Scout: my turn 11. I use it to re-order my deck so my Plaza can draw Catacombs.

And I had to green before the megaturn to prevent my opponent from piling out.
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Seprix

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2016, 01:19:10 pm »
0

So this is yet another case of all four Scout conditions (potentially drawing green cards, benefiting from the reordering, benefiting from a non-terminal Action whose name is Scout, and being able to gain it with no opportunity cost) being true and Scout being just slightly better than nothing. It's pretty much what I've been saying for 9 months already and I even wrote an article on the subject.

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout.

No you wouldn't.

Yes I would. The win rate would be higher for getting Curse + Ruined Village than for just having Scout.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 01:26:17 pm »
0

Yes I would. The win rate would be higher for getting Curse + Ruined Village than for just having Scout.

Have you considered the fact that both Curse and Ruined Village are individually worse than Scout?
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2016, 01:26:52 pm »
+1

I would rather have a Curse and a Ruined Village in my deck than a single Scout.
No you wouldn't.
Yes I would. The win rate would be higher for getting Curse + Ruined Village than for just having Scout.

There are some things which there are real arguments in favor of. This is not one of those things.

As an added bonus, I know that you know that. We have enough objectively wrong statements about Dominion on this forum at the moment - no need to contribute.

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2016, 01:33:46 pm »
0

Is Pirate Ship relevant here?  No way to quickly get rid of Coppers, could get lucky and hit a precious HoP, and it would provide money in an otherwise low-economy deck.  I want to say no, but I'd be tempted to try it.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2016, 01:40:51 pm »
+1

Is Pirate Ship relevant here?  No way to quickly get rid of Coppers, could get lucky and hit a precious HoP, and it would provide money in an otherwise low-economy deck.  I want to say no, but I'd be tempted to try it.

I don't think you are ever going to get more worth out of your Pirate Ship than you are giving your opponent by trashing his Coppers. I mean, if you get very lucky hitting Horns, sure. But your opponent isn't going to have a really high number of Horns until late in the game, at which point he will have so many other cards too, I just think it's unlikely.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2016, 05:57:21 pm »
0

Imagine if this game had Great Hall
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2016, 06:51:45 pm »
+2

Imagine if this game had Great Hall
He already got a great haul of points in that game.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2016, 07:21:15 pm »
+13

Eh, I'm not convinced. I think some variation of big money might've been better
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2016, 04:29:12 am »
+1

Eh, I'm not convinced. I think some variation of big money might've been better

Scout-Big Money?
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2016, 04:35:45 am »
+1

I've been mostly away from the Forums for the past year, so apologies if there's been some paradigm shift and the expert opinion on Scout has shifted.

Eh. Even counting house got a Killer Combo, but we're still waiting for the discovery of Scout's hidden purpose in Dominion.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2016, 06:11:56 am »
+1

I once tried a Scout-Great Hall-Ironworks-Crossroads thing, it failed. :-\

If only Scout just had +1 card by default (like say Apothecary, Spy), then it wouldn't be actually hurtful.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2016, 01:10:03 pm »
+1

Eh, I'm not convinced. I think some variation of big money might've been better

I'm really confused. HoP megaturn with a village,draw, trashing and a way to gain hops alone is so superior to big money it's not even funny. Now since the HoP player happens to use scout, you want to play money?
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2016, 01:38:01 pm »
+1

Pretty sire he was joking
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2016, 03:35:44 pm »
0

Pretty sire he was joking

That's what I thought when we were talking about Scouting Party aswell but I got disappointed. Maybe it's still the long con....
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2016, 04:31:24 pm »
+2

Pretty sire he was joking

That's what I thought when we were talking about Scouting Party aswell but I got disappointed. Maybe it's still the long con....

With Roadrunner, it's always the long con. His entire performance thus far on these forums is part of it.
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You are my favorite reptile.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
All iguanas are equal. But some iguanas are more equal than others.

Burning Skull

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2016, 06:22:20 pm »
0

More than that, I am sure he is in the direct control of two other active posters here.

Seprix

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2016, 06:24:08 pm »
0

More than that, I am sure he is in the direct control of two other active posters here.

Who would that be? Share your tinfoil hat.
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Burning Skull

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2016, 06:42:26 pm »
+1

This secret is not moat to share

singletee

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2016, 06:43:08 pm »
0

More than that, I am sure he is in the direct control of two other active posters here.

Who would that be? Share your tinfoil hat.

Plot twist: one of them is Burning Skull.

Marcory

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2016, 09:30:05 am »
0

I had a Double Tactician/ Conspirator game the other day with Scout the only nonterminal Action. Scout let me kick off my Conspirator  chains, so there's that. And it made it easier for me to deal with the Provinces in my deck. I think it was actually  better  for my deck than say, Squire or Pawn  would  have been .
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terminalCopper

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2016, 02:49:10 pm »
0

If only Scout just had +1 card by default came with a free lab
FTFY
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2016, 02:58:30 pm »
0

I just played a game where I bought a Scout to power up my Fairgrounds!

The coolest reason I ever bought a Scout is to make a Golem I was certain to see on the next turn non-terminal (the only other non-terminal was Alchemist, but I didn't have a Potion that turn). Sure, it might as well have been a Ruined Village, but Ruins were not on the board, so yeah.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 03:00:23 pm by Aleimon Thimble »
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2017, 09:31:12 pm »
+4

I'm here, just woke up. Catching up on the past 4 hours.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2017, 09:33:08 pm »
+1

I'm here, just woke up. Catching up on the past 4 hours.
There's a lot to catch up on!
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2017, 09:37:22 pm »
0

Like Scout being good.
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2017, 09:48:34 pm »
0

Ooops. I was wondering where that post disappeared!
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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2017, 11:21:32 pm »
0

This made me remind of a game where my opponent got a bunch of scouts (actually BUYING a couple of them) and making fantastic use of them for the win. I caught up to what he was doing and got scouts of my own, making it so we actually completely drained the scout pile, but unfortunately it was to late for me...

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160416/log.0.1460790797397.txt



Don´t let Roadrunner see this... It was actually a scout slaughter...
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Jacob marley

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2017, 01:18:19 pm »
0

This made me remind of a game where my opponent got a bunch of scouts (actually BUYING a couple of them) and making fantastic use of them for the win. I caught up to what he was doing and got scouts of my own, making it so we actually completely drained the scout pile, but unfortunately it was to late for me...

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160416/log.0.1460790797397.txt



Don´t let Roadrunner see this... It was actually a scout slaughter...

But really, scout was only important for the cost, not it's effect.  Basically any 4 cost card would do since it was only really used as fuel for Upgrade into key 5 cost cards.
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markusin

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Re: It Finally Happened: A Game Where Scout Was Good
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2017, 01:34:40 pm »
+2

This made me remind of a game where my opponent got a bunch of scouts (actually BUYING a couple of them) and making fantastic use of them for the win. I caught up to what he was doing and got scouts of my own, making it so we actually completely drained the scout pile, but unfortunately it was to late for me...

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160416/log.0.1460790797397.txt



Don´t let Roadrunner see this... It was actually a scout slaughter...

But really, scout was only important for the cost, not it's effect.  Basically any 4 cost card would do since it was only really used as fuel for Upgrade into key 5 cost cards.

That's still a step up from being worse than a Silver purchase.
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