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Author Topic: Forced Wins Training Sessions  (Read 5380 times)

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Limetime

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2016, 11:36:49 pm »
+1

Play workshop gaining silver, play worker's village*2, remodel gold into province, buy province
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Haddock

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2016, 11:55:24 am »
0

Play workshop gaining silver, play worker's village*2, remodel gold into province, buy province
Lol.  I went a bit over-fancy; same thing but workshop for remodel, remodelling the gold and a province then buying a duchy for a 1-point win.

Your way's better :P
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (1-1, 50%): 80 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (2-3, 40%): 33, 37 - 29, 32, 35.
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Dingan

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2016, 03:01:29 pm »
+2

Could I have won it here?

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Seprix

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2016, 03:09:24 pm »
0

No way in hell. There's no possible three-pile where you also win. You cannot get 4 Provinces either.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 03:10:57 pm by Seprix »
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2016, 03:20:23 pm »
0

Ouch, you seem to be a coin short for piling the Provinces. Salvaging the Thief, playing Rogue and all your money gets you 8 different cards in play, so you can gain 2 Provinces with the Horns, and then you have $15... Salvaging Rogue instead of Thief would get a coin extra, but you lose the $2 from Rogue so you only have $14. A three-pile also seems impossible. I don't think it can be done.

The above might still be the correct play (buying Province-Duchy at the end) depending on how your opponent's deck is doing. I guess it's a mirror, so you're kinda playing for your opponent to dud anyway, so you might as well take a lead in the process.
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Seprix

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2016, 03:21:09 pm »
0

Ouch, you seem to be a coin short for piling the Provinces. Salvaging the Thief, playing Rogue and all your money gets you 8 different cards in play, so you can gain 2 Provinces with the Horns, and then you have $15... Salvaging Rogue instead of Thief would get a coin extra, but you lose the $2 from Rogue so you only have $14. A three-pile also seems impossible. I don't think it can be done.

The above might still be the correct play (buying Province-Duchy at the end) depending on how your opponent's deck is doing. I guess it's a mirror, so you're kinda playing for your opponent to dud anyway, so you might as well take a lead in the process.

Salvaging Thief and playing Rogue does nothing, since you also need the +Action to do such a thing.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2016, 03:24:08 pm »
+1

Ouch, you seem to be a coin short for piling the Provinces. Salvaging the Thief, playing Rogue and all your money gets you 8 different cards in play, so you can gain 2 Provinces with the Horns, and then you have $15... Salvaging Rogue instead of Thief would get a coin extra, but you lose the $2 from Rogue so you only have $14. A three-pile also seems impossible. I don't think it can be done.

The above might still be the correct play (buying Province-Duchy at the end) depending on how your opponent's deck is doing. I guess it's a mirror, so you're kinda playing for your opponent to dud anyway, so you might as well take a lead in the process.

Salvaging Thief and playing Rogue does nothing, since you also need the +Action to do such a thing.

Right. Somehow I thought he had 2 Actions left. I guess you can get to that point by discarding Thief to Hamlet, but then you need to Salvage a Relic. It still gets you $14 so you can still buy Province-Duchy after gaining 2 Provinces.
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Seprix

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2016, 03:25:31 pm »
0

Ouch, you seem to be a coin short for piling the Provinces. Salvaging the Thief, playing Rogue and all your money gets you 8 different cards in play, so you can gain 2 Provinces with the Horns, and then you have $15... Salvaging Rogue instead of Thief would get a coin extra, but you lose the $2 from Rogue so you only have $14. A three-pile also seems impossible. I don't think it can be done.

The above might still be the correct play (buying Province-Duchy at the end) depending on how your opponent's deck is doing. I guess it's a mirror, so you're kinda playing for your opponent to dud anyway, so you might as well take a lead in the process.

Salvaging Thief and playing Rogue does nothing, since you also need the +Action to do such a thing.

Right. Somehow I thought he had 2 Actions left. I guess you can get to that point by discarding Thief to Hamlet, but then you need to Salvage a Relic. It still gets you $14 so you can still buy Province-Duchy after gaining 2 Provinces.

Correct. I thought I was going blind for not seeing a pileout.  ;D
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Titandrake

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2016, 03:34:54 pm »
+2

3 Province + Duchy looks safe here, unless your opponent's deck is really weird. That puts you at 33 VP to 17 VP, so they need Province + 3 Duchy + Estate to tie or Province + 4 Duchy to win. I don't see many lines where they can do Province + 4 Duchy, but can't do 3 Provinces + Duchy or 4 Provinces. They have 3 Horns and no way to gain Horns in the middle of their turn.
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Dingan

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2016, 01:01:53 am »
0

How about here?



EDIT: Whoops, didn't realize there weren't victory point counters.  But with no green or purple cards gone from the supply (or Dame Josephine), the largest VP deficit I could have been down at the time was 3 (I don't think it was that large, but lets say it was).  In that case, could I have won?  Answer: I still think so, but not sure.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 03:45:27 pm by Dingan »
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traces Around

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2016, 01:37:58 am »
+1

You maybe could have gotten away with playing the Herald, but why bother?

If you do not, play Bridge Troll, play Messenger, Expand Herald to Bridge Troll, Copper to Duchy, play Copper, Messenger the remaining two Bridge Trolls, buy 3 Estates That gives 6 points, which can probably be improved upon if one doesn't mess around as much.

Edit: -1 coin token
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 01:39:46 am by traces Around »
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Dingan

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2016, 11:38:35 pm »
0

Could I have won here?  I believe at this point it was... me: 1 Province, 0 Estates, 1 Curse -- opponent: 0 Provinces, 2 Estates, 2 Curses.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 11:41:45 pm by Dingan »
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Limetime

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2016, 11:47:00 pm »
+1

Could I have won here?  I believe at this point it was... me: 1 Province, 0 Estates, 1 Curse -- opponent: 0 Provinces, 2 Estates, 2 Curses.
YeahDiscard feast, stonemason feast into two stonemasons, play bm not buying anything Play coin token stonemason overpay two, stonemason overpay 2
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2016, 10:40:10 am »
0

How about here?

EDIT: Whoops, didn't realize there weren't victory point counters.  But with no green or purple cards gone from the supply (or Dame Josephine), the largest VP deficit I could have been down at the time was 3 (I don't think it was that large, but lets say it was).  In that case, could I have won?  Answer: I still think so, but not sure.

Besides tracer's answer, can also Expand Troll -> Province, Expand Herald -> Troll, Play Messenger and buy Messenger (giving Trolls).
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tim17

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2016, 08:35:56 pm »
0

Here's one I came across IRL today.  I thought there should be a forced win, but didn't spot one.

My hand: silver, 6 charms, stonemason, villa, city quarter

In play: 1/2 city (2 city quarters), royal blacksmith, market, 2 bakers, remodel

Deck: 1 copper

Discard: Nothing

I have 7 coin tokens

Supply:

Province: 8
Duchy: 8
Estate: 7
Curse: 10

Copper: a lot
Silver: a lot
Gold: a lot

Overlord: 9
Royal Blacksmith: 6
City Quarter: 5
Charm: 2
Market: 9
Baker: 6
Bureaucrat: 10
Villa: 5
Remodel: 4
Stonemason: 6

Wedding
Aqueduct with 2 VP on it

My opponent leads 4-0
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2016, 09:14:47 pm »
+4

Here's one I came across IRL today.  I thought there should be a forced win, but didn't spot one.

Here's one that doesn't use Charm's special ability at all:

Play all Charms for $2 +buy, play Silver, use all 7 tokens ($22 total)
Bunch of Stonemason overpays:
  Stonemason (for 2 more Stonemasons) $4
  Stonemason (for 2 Villas) $6 - go right back to buy phase
  Stonemason (for 2 Villas) $6 - go right back to buy phase
  Stonemason (for Villa + Remodel) $6 (no money left)

Should have 6 Actions (from the Villas) now if I understand the game state right. Stonemasons and Villas are gone.

Play City Quarter and draw 7 cards. Those will be the Copper and either 6 Stonemasons or 5 Stonemasons 1 Remodel.

Play Stonemasons and trash Villas until the Estates are empty.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 09:16:10 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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tim17

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2016, 11:26:50 pm »
+1

Here's one I came across IRL today.  I thought there should be a forced win, but didn't spot one.

Here's one that doesn't use Charm's special ability at all:

Play all Charms for $2 +buy, play Silver, use all 7 tokens ($22 total)
Bunch of Stonemason overpays:
  Stonemason (for 2 more Stonemasons) $4
  Stonemason (for 2 Villas) $6 - go right back to buy phase
  Stonemason (for 2 Villas) $6 - go right back to buy phase
  Stonemason (for Villa + Remodel) $6 (no money left)

Should have 6 Actions (from the Villas) now if I understand the game state right. Stonemasons and Villas are gone.

Play City Quarter and draw 7 cards. Those will be the Copper and either 6 Stonemasons or 5 Stonemasons 1 Remodel.

Play Stonemasons and trash Villas until the Estates are empty.


Yep, I'm sure there were a bunch.  When I played this I didn't have all the time in the world and missed stonemason stuff.  I found one afterwards that used the charms to pile the bakers and then pile the villas using stonemason stuff and get the last charm with a duchy for a 1 point win.  Yours seems easier to spot though.
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Titandrake

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2016, 01:52:10 am »
+2

From a league game.

Maximize the number of points you can guarantee ending the game with. I can get to 22 VP.

(If you were looking at this before, there was a mistake that was fixed.)

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:03:18 am by Titandrake »
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aku_chi

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2016, 08:54:50 am »
+1

From a league game.

Maximize the number of points you can guarantee ending the game with. I can get to 22 VP.

Isn't it possible to get 24 VP?

Play University x3, gain Butcher x3.  Have 4 actions.
Play Apprentice trashing Potion, Draw Apprentice, Laboratory, Potion, and Butcher.
Play Laboratory, draw Butcher x2.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Butcher, gain Province.
Play Butcher, trash Apprentice, gain Province.
Play Potion, buy Vineyard.

End with Province x2, Vineyard x3 w 12 actions = 24 VP.
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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2016, 09:15:00 am »
0

From a league game.

Maximize the number of points you can guarantee ending the game with. I can get to 22 VP.

Isn't it possible to get 24 VP?

Play University x3, gain Butcher x3.  Have 4 actions.
Play Apprentice trashing Potion, Draw Apprentice, Laboratory, Potion, and Butcher.
Play Laboratory, draw Butcher x2.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Butcher, gain Province.
Play Butcher, trash Apprentice, gain Province.
Play Potion, buy Vineyard.

End with Province x2, Vineyard x3 w 12 actions = 24 VP.


The only tweak is you want to Apprentice Potion after the first Uni gain to guarantee the Lab draw, then you use the other 2 Uni, then you play the Lab.

Also this loss still hurts :(

How did you get the Isotropic interface for our game?
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BlackHole

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2016, 10:02:53 am »
0

From a league game.

Maximize the number of points you can guarantee ending the game with. I can get to 22 VP.

Isn't it possible to get 24 VP?

Play University x3, gain Butcher x3.  Have 4 actions.
Play Apprentice trashing Potion, Draw Apprentice, Laboratory, Potion, and Butcher.
Play Laboratory, draw Butcher x2.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Vineyard, gain Vineyard.
Play Butcher, trash Butcher, gain Province.
Play Butcher, trash Apprentice, gain Province.
Play Potion, buy Vineyard.

End with Province x2, Vineyard x3 w 12 actions = 24 VP.


The only tweak is you want to Apprentice Potion after the first Uni gain to guarantee the Lab draw, then you use the other 2 Uni, then you play the Lab.
You dont have to do that in this order since lab is in his draw and University doesnt topdeck
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Titandrake

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2016, 01:51:04 pm »
0

How did you get the Isotropic interface for our game?

I pasted the plaintext log link into http://goko-replay.herokuapp.com/.

I abandoned it after Guilds so it doesn't work for most logs, but luckily it worked for this one.

@aku_chi: nice that's better than mine. My solution was to play all but 1 University, Butcher a University into Vineyard, then a Vineyard into Vineyard, then a Copper into Province, then buy the 3rd Vineyard.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 01:53:31 pm by Titandrake »
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Dingan

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2016, 01:16:41 am »
+1

How bout here?  My opponent had 2 Duchies and 1 Estate; I had no green.  I don't remember who went first.



Answer: Yes (I think) -- gain Moneylender w/ University, play WT (drawing nothing), play other WT, draw Moneylender, play Moneylender-Copper, gain 2 HoP's with 2 HoP's, gain 2 Duchies w/ 2 other HoP's, buy 2 Estates, win by 1 VP.
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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2016, 01:29:45 am »
0

Answer: Yes (I think) -- gain Moneylender w/ University, play WT (drawing nothing), play other WT, draw Moneylender, play Moneylender-Copper, gain 2 HoP's with 2 HoP's, gain 2 Duchies w/ 2 other HoP's, buy 2 Estates, win by 1 VP.

Edit: this is wrong as Dingan mentions! Oops!

Gain Ratcatcher, then you can gain 2 Provinces with your 2 HoPs instead of Duchies because you still have the Copper and you can still buy a single Estate. This assumes that I can count.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 03:20:40 am by JW »
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Dingan

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Re: Forced Wins Training Sessions
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2016, 01:42:19 am »
+2

Answer: Yes (I think) -- gain Moneylender w/ University, play WT (drawing nothing), play other WT, draw Moneylender, play Moneylender-Copper, gain 2 HoP's with 2 HoP's, gain 2 Duchies w/ 2 other HoP's, buy 2 Estates, win by 1 VP.

Gain Ratcatcher, then you can gain 2 Provinces with your 2 HoPs instead of Duchies because you still have the Copper and you can still buy a single Estate. This assumes that I can count.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Reserve cards do not count as "in play" when they're played -- they do when they're called.  And therefore don't contribute to HoP.  So depending on what you drew with the RCer, you might only have 7 uniques in play (in which case I wouldn't be guaranteed a win).
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 01:43:42 am by Dingan »
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