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Author Topic: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?  (Read 1688 times)

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Accatitippi

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Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« on: September 11, 2016, 03:13:33 am »
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Pawn Shop - 1c Event
Once per turn, choose one:
+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, +coins equal to its cost in coins, or
+2 coins, buy a card costing more than 0 from the Trash.

This is the general idea. You may Salvage cards automagically (at a lower benefit than Salvager, no +Buy), but you offer your opponents an opportunity to buy them back first from the trash (-1 coin, not too shabby, yes I think I'll take it).
This has surely a number of issues, I've thought of some of them but I've surely missed some:
1.it becomes a free Borrow when the Trash is empty of gainable cards.
2.players may not want to use it for fear of helping the next player, or conversely the trashing part may be too dominant over the gaining part.
3.could lead to endless games with Bishop and, to a lesser extent, other vp cards.
4.obscure (to me) rule interactions

#1 could be solved by seeding the trash at the start of the game, adding some sort of IF clause or making it trash something (Silver?) from Supply on use (so that you must buy that card - bar cost reduction and weird things).
#2 is hard to see if this is real without testing
#3 I'm inclined to not worry about this too much, but again trashing a card on use could do wonders here, as you'll have a net null effect on trash size.

So yeah, this is the fix I've been thinking about:
Pawn Shop - 1c Event
Once per turn, choose one:
+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, +coins equal to its cost in coins, or
+2 coins, trash a Silver from the Supply, if you did, buy a card costing more than 0 from the Trash.

...but this long and very obscure, and it's still a free Borrow when you've got exactly one coin.

Fun (?) interactions: buying Vineyards and Trasmutes from the trash generates one coin. Fortress is a 4$ Gold. You can't buy back lost Prizes, but you can buy back that Champion that just got Swindled.

So uh, I really like the idea in principle, but I'm not sure it's feasible and fun, so your opinions and suggestions on the matter would be of great help. :)
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Marcory

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Re: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2016, 01:37:16 am »
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The main problem with this card is that it's usually not that interesting to buy from the Trash. The only reasons you'd want to do so are (1) to muck with an opponent's Forager or Rebuild; (2) to gain a card whose Supply pile is empty; or (3) to avoid a 3-pile (but if the game is that far along, you'll want Duchies and Provinces, which normally don't get into the Trash).  Graverobber and Rogue can put strong Action cards into the trash and then gain them back for free; but normally, if you're buying a card, you're just as happy to buy it from the Supply

My first reaction to the card itself is that this is better as a one-shot card than an event, so that there's always something in the trash.

Second, I think that it should cost or more, so that you can keep the "good trash/bad trash" dichotomy from Dark Ages.

So the card would be something like:

Pawn Shop Action

Choose one:
+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, gain equal to its cost in
or
+. While this is in play, you may buy cards from the Trash costing $3 or more.
---------
At the start of Cleanup, if this is in play, trash this.


This is obviously strictly superior to Salvager, but it's a one shot, so I have no idea about pricing. Maybe start with and go up or down from there. Possible buffs include making it more expensive but gaining a Silver when you buy it, giving a discount on cards in the trash, and giving it +, or making it not trash itself when you gain from the trash.

Possible nerfs include forcing it to trash cards costing $3 or more.



« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 09:49:22 pm by Marcory »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 10:00:12 am »
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I don't see a reason to put a limit on the price of what you can buy from the trash.  Rogue only mentions a price so that you can attack if there's no good cards in the trash. If you're just (optionally) buying a card from the trash, 99% of the time you'll want to buy something costing or more anyway, but it doesn't at all make it overpowered if you're allowed to buy a Copper or something.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 10:01:14 am »
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I don't see a reason to put a limit on the price of what you can buy from the trash.  Rogue only mentions a price so that you can attack if there's no good cards in the trash. If you're just (optionally) buying a card from the trash, 99% of the time you'll want to buy something costing or more anyway, but it doesn't at all make it overpowered if you're allowed to buy a Copper or something.

Combo's great with inheritance and trashing then!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 04:35:52 pm »
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I don't see a reason to put a limit on the price of what you can buy from the trash.  Rogue only mentions a price so that you can attack if there's no good cards in the trash. If you're just (optionally) buying a card from the trash, 99% of the time you'll want to buy something costing or more anyway, but it doesn't at all make it overpowered if you're allowed to buy a Copper or something.

Combo's great with inheritance and trashing then!

Sure. And in rare cases, it could be pretty powerful to be able to use something like Swindler to trash an opponent's prizes and gain them back for yourself. But none of these seem like reasons to put a restriction on the cost.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Pawn Shop, an event idea - is it worth making?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2016, 05:52:35 am »
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I don't see a reason to put a limit on the price of what you can buy from the trash.  Rogue only mentions a price so that you can attack if there's no good cards in the trash. If you're just (optionally) buying a card from the trash, 99% of the time you'll want to buy something costing or more anyway, but it doesn't at all make it overpowered if you're allowed to buy a Copper or something.

Combo's great with inheritance and trashing then!

Sure. And in rare cases, it could be pretty powerful to be able to use something like Swindler to trash an opponent's prizes and gain them back for yourself. But none of these seem like reasons to put a restriction on the cost.

The reason I put a restriction on the cost is to avoid people using it to buy coppers from the trash and at the same time converting a Buy into a coin.
Spelling it loud doesn't make it sound as useful a move as I thought, but I'd rather not have it.

Marcory:
Thanks for your feedback!
Moving the treshold to 3+ would make it more consistent with Graverobber and Rogue, but I thought that getting back Estates for 1 wouldn't break it, but it's not very interesting, admittedly.

Making the Salvager power only work on 3+ cards is a very good idea to avoid having it only used to trash Estates (for +1$!) and Coppers (a comparable deal to Bonfire).
I think that for a trash-gaining Event it's less important to have a way to put cards in the trash, because it hurts less the game to have a unused event. And ayway, Pawnshop offers a very decent way to trash for benefit, so I hope it should tend to have something juicy in the trash. :)
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