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Author Topic: Raze bug  (Read 1952 times)

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Jeebus

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Raze bug
« on: August 25, 2016, 01:04:24 pm »
+3

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160825/log.0.1472142838950.txt

Pretty sure there is a bug here. Turn 8 I play Disciple on Raze. First play, I choose Raze and trash it. Second play, I want to choose it again (in order to not trash anything), but the only options I get are the cards in my hand. (The screen text still says, "Trash Raze or a card from your hand".) So I have to trash a card from my hand.

Any point in reporting bugs anymore? Where do I do it now?

SkyHard

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 01:13:30 am »
+1

Not sure if it is a bug or not (my feeling would be the later, but I am often wrong).

MF is still doing bug fixes, so I would report it.
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diedre91

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 03:15:56 am »
+4

From the FAQ:

"You may make either choice trash the played card or trash a card from your hand even if the played card is not in play anymore (e.g. from playing it twice with Throne Room) or you have no cards in your hand. You won't look at any cards if the choice you made causes you to not trash a card."
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gkrieg13

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 09:58:23 am »
+1

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160825/log.0.1472142838950.txt

Pretty sure there is a bug here. Turn 8 I play Disciple on Raze. First play, I choose Raze and trash it. Second play, I want to choose it again (in order to not trash anything), but the only options I get are the cards in my hand. (The screen text still says, "Trash Raze or a card from your hand".) So I have to trash a card from my hand.

Any point in reporting bugs anymore? Where do I do it now?

Did you try trashing it in the trash?
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Jeebus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 10:09:03 am »
+1

Did you try trashing it in the trash?

Yep. It was not selectable.

So can anybody give me a clue where to report bugs? I can't remember where I did it last time, but I think I followed a link from the client, and that link seems to be gone.

Watno

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 10:17:00 am »
+1

My suggestion is: Don't bother.
MF's implementation is going away in 3 months, I don't think they'll fix that, or anything else that isn't critical.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 10:52:32 am »
+3

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Jeebus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 11:57:25 am »
0

It makes me wonder about other possible bugs like this. Tortured-with-no-Curses works of course. But what about Tournament revealing a Province and there are no Duchies or no Prizes left? What about trashing Hunting Grounds with no Duchies or no Estates left?

Awaclus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 12:10:55 pm »
0

It makes me wonder about other possible bugs like this. Tortured-with-no-Curses works of course. But what about Tournament revealing a Province and there are no Duchies or no Prizes left? What about trashing Hunting Grounds with no Duchies or no Estates left?

I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be able to choose to gain Duchies/Prizes with Tournament unless some are left.
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Jeebus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 12:24:23 pm »
+1

I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be able to choose to gain Duchies/Prizes with Tournament unless some are left.

There is no question. It's one of the pillars of Dominion rules: When given several options, you can always pick any option. (Otherwise Torturer would be... something entirely different!)

In this case it's even stated explicitly in the Cornucopia rulebook: "You can opt to take a Duchy even if the Duchy pile is empty, or a Prize even if no Prizes are left; in these cases you gain nothing."
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:25:42 pm by Jeebus »
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Awaclus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 12:28:07 pm »
0

There is no question. It's one of the pillars of Dominion rules: When given several options, you can always pick any option. (Otherwise Torturer would be... something entirely different!)

But you can't choose to gain an Estate with Workshop if the Estate pile is empty. The wording of Tournament implies that it's the same (it's "gain a Prize or a Duchy", not "gain a Prize or gain a Duchy"), although the FAQ is pretty clear on this subject.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:29:15 pm by Awaclus »
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Jeebus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 02:00:43 pm »
0

There is no question. It's one of the pillars of Dominion rules: When given several options, you can always pick any option. (Otherwise Torturer would be... something entirely different!)

But you can't choose to gain an Estate with Workshop if the Estate pile is empty. The wording of Tournament implies that it's the same (it's "gain a Prize or a Duchy", not "gain a Prize or gain a Duchy"), although the FAQ is pretty clear on this subject.

You're right, it's not apparent what "gain x or y" means, but from the rules we can ascertain that it does mean "gain x or gain y".

Chris is me

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 03:18:08 pm »
+1

There is no question. It's one of the pillars of Dominion rules: When given several options, you can always pick any option. (Otherwise Torturer would be... something entirely different!)

But you can't choose to gain an Estate with Workshop if the Estate pile is empty. The wording of Tournament implies that it's the same (it's "gain a Prize or a Duchy", not "gain a Prize or gain a Duchy"), although the FAQ is pretty clear on this subject.

The issue here is in how specific the instructions are, and how you can follow them.

If you play Workshop, you have to complete its instruction, which is gain a card costing up to 4. You must gain a card if able, and if there are no Estates, you pick something else.

Tournament specifically names two choices you can make, you can either gain a Duchy, or a Prize. You pick one, and then you try to do it. If there are no Prizes and you picked Prize, you don't gain anything, as previously discussed. That doesn't mean you can say "I gain followers" and then fail and then not get a different Prize if available - you still have to execute "gain a Prize" if you picked that option and there are prizes available.

Consider a hypothetical Workshop that read "Name a card costing up to $4. Gain that card." In this case, you COULD name Estate, and then attempt to and fail to gain it due to an empty pile. Is it clear why that is? I think so - you are doing as much as the card says, there is no conditional on the first statement, etc.
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Awaclus

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 03:43:07 pm »
0

Tournament specifically names two choices you can make, you can either gain a Duchy, or a Prize. You pick one, and then you try to do it. If there are no Prizes and you picked Prize, you don't gain anything, as previously discussed. That doesn't mean you can say "I gain followers" and then fail and then not get a different Prize if available - you still have to execute "gain a Prize" if you picked that option and there are prizes available.

It specifically names one choice you can make: you can gain a card that is either a Duchy or a Prize. You can only fail to gain a card that is either a Duchy or a Prize if there are no Duchies and no Prizes left. The actual functionality of the card doesn't follow from the text.

To work like it works, it should say "gain a Prize or gain a Duchy".
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Donald X.

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Re: Raze bug
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 03:46:25 pm »
+1

There is no question. It's one of the pillars of Dominion rules: When given several options, you can always pick any option. (Otherwise Torturer would be... something entirely different!)

But you can't choose to gain an Estate with Workshop if the Estate pile is empty. The wording of Tournament implies that it's the same (it's "gain a Prize or a Duchy", not "gain a Prize or gain a Duchy"), although the FAQ is pretty clear on this subject.
With Workshop you choose a physical card in the supply that costs $4 or less. You have to pick one if there is one. You only fail if there was no such card to pick.

With Tournament you pick from two options and then can fail at the one you picked (ditto Raze).

Yes it could be slightly clearer, for all those times when you really want to avoid gaining both Duchies and Prizes. Space on the card was limited.
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