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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort  (Read 3971 times)

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faust

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Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« on: August 24, 2016, 05:42:25 pm »
+2


I once tried to play a game of Dominion in Skyrim. It did not end well.

Once I was at an f.ds meetup, and we were all playing Dominion. The rest of us had finished their games and waited for the last group to end as well so we could switch. The last group was ehunt and tuffteah (I think), playing a game with Bandit Fort and no real economy other than Silver or Gold, and no trashing. It was fun watching them scramble to get to $5 just so they could grab a Duchy. ehunt was just plowing through the castles with Small Castle, making a sad face when he realized he had to gain a Gold off the Haunted Castle.

The point is, Bandit Fort games can be a real pain when there is no other income available. But most of the time, I think it will just push you a bit more away from Big Money, which is not usually something you want to play anyway.

- How big of an issue do you think situations where you get a couple of money cards and then try to trash them before the game ends will become?
- How much fun will it be to use Embassy as a pseudo-IGG?
- Can you still pull off Masterpiece/Feodum with Bandit Fort present?
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tailred

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 11:40:40 pm »
0

Feodum for points shouldn't even be a consideration here. You'll need 6 feoda for the points to just break even.

I think this will have a nice synergy with Counterfeit, rewarding a well-timed cannibalization of your big treasures as the game ends.
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Davio

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 07:01:15 am »
0

Feodum for points shouldn't even be a consideration here. You'll need 6 feoda for the points to just break even.

I think this will have a nice synergy with Counterfeit, rewarding a well-timed cannibalization of your big treasures as the game ends.
That or the TfBs: Remodel, Expand, Butcher, Salvager, etc..
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2016, 09:18:59 am »
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Doesn't even have to be TfB. Coulld just as well be Chapel or Steward. The correct play on many, many boards is going to be buying Silver, and then gettin rid of it once you have alternate economy.

Now the real kicker is, this is the correct play on a bunch of birds already.
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Davio

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2016, 10:02:20 am »
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Ambassador all the Silvers!
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Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2016, 01:13:27 pm »
+1

Do you buy Copper over Silver in a Bandit Fort game, given no other sources of income?
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jomini

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2016, 11:37:10 pm »
+6

Buying coppers is still pretty lousy without a good reason.

Let's say go BM/Smithy&Copper. You pile all the duchies, estates, and Smithies. You walk away with 8*3+8+3 = 27 VP.  You need a minimum of 16 turns to end the game. I use Moneylender to thin down to an engine and build to silver x4/village/Smithy. I burn 8 VP on the silvers and then need just 6 provinces to win (6*6 - 8 + 3). In a 20 turn game that is pretty easy.

But could you not build an engine of coppers & draw? Why yes you could. But how many turns behind would you be? Say we have Hunting grounds, Rc, and Hamlet for our deck. Getting to $6 off coppers is impossible, so advantage to take the 4 VP hit and get on to the big stuff. Say we use Catacombs (no trashing) instead. Well even if you open C/C, you still have a 1/4 chance of hitting an estate each card so it will be a good number of turns before your first $5 most of the time, let alone your second.

And think about it, if you can build a one province engine a turn sooner, you are looking at a 3VP swing and perhaps as high as 12 VP for getting their a turn first. In the latter case, it is totally worth it to buy up to 6 big treasures - or something like Silver x2, Gold x4 and just play the normal $16 engine game. Getting to provinces a whole shuffle later is typically a pretty huge VP swing that makes opening double silver trivial in comparison.

Or think about it this way. How often is it worth it to buy Silver over Monument? As an opener you forfeit 1 VP on the first shuffle and normally at least 1 VP more ... and that is for something that merely takes up a terminal instead of hurting your odds of hitting $5.

Yes worry about the relative number of Golds & Silvers. Yes limit your BM games, declare silver flooding DOA, and enjoy copper based setups (engine or slog) ... but be very wary of letting 2 VP slow you down. Buy the thing that lets you hit your key price point sooner; there is time later to buy VP.

More interesting are the questions of exactly how much treasure you should buy. I do suspect that Bandit Fort pushes you more towards singleton province engines - going from $8 to $16 is at least -6 VP (assuming copper/something else is not supported on the board) and it delays you a turn. Or in other words by building up to 2 provinces per turn, you start buying provinces at least a turn later and need to buy at least one more. Ceteris parabis the VP would then go something like -6 (end of your turn), -12 (end of theirs), 0, -6, 6, 0, 6 for a win ... but that meant you could gain silver, gold, gold in one turn. Anything less quick than that is a net loss.

Also fun is that at some point, you will want to trash out and just pile duchies. When that point comes in a game, I cannot say, but it will be fun to find out.
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arcee

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Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Bandit Fort
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2016, 03:34:58 am »
0

Had Bandit Fort and Windfall as our non-card things today, which at first seemed terrible but the game proved to be interesting.  It was possible to make an engine and get Windfall, then use Remake Gold -> Expand, then enjoy.  I finished with 4 Gold/Silver doing that, a Venture / Junk Dealer player had 5.  Margin of victory was the 5th Treasure and 1 Estate (though Venture player had an extra turn, and I didn't incorporate Groundskeeper which would have done a lot - 3rd player was trying to set up the engine with those, but didn't have any money so it took too long).
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