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Author Topic: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory  (Read 1522 times)

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Seprix

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Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« on: August 24, 2016, 10:31:46 am »
+1

Assuming a board where you want Armory and Chapel, do you open Chapel/Armory, or get the Silver with Armory and topdeck a Chapel with the Armory instead? I suppose it doesn't really matter which you do?
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 10:32:41 am »
0

Assuming a board where you want Armory and Chapel, do you open Chapel/Armory, or get the Silver with Armory and topdeck a Chapel with the Armory instead? I suppose it doesn't really matter which you do?

I'd chapel/armory, seems slightly less shuffle luck dependent.

On second thought: not sure this is true.
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Seprix

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Re: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 10:37:18 am »
0

Assuming a board where you want Armory and Chapel, do you open Chapel/Armory, or get the Silver with Armory and topdeck a Chapel with the Armory instead? I suppose it doesn't really matter which you do?

I'd chapel/armory, seems slightly less shuffle luck dependent.

On second thought: not sure this is true.

Yeah, I know! Having Silver and Armory collide-proof is nice. The only thing is that if the Armory misses the shuffle, the Chapel does for sure as well, whereas you only have 50% less chance of both missing the shuffle on a Chapel/Armory in this way, since there are now two cards instead of just Armory. I'm not that good with probability, so I posed this question to the math wizards at f.ds!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 10:39:28 am by Seprix »
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Chris is me

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Re: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 10:39:55 am »
+4

Not opening Chapel and trying to top deck it with Armory drastically increases the chances that Chapel misses the first shuffle. You NEED Armory on Turn 3 for the newly gained Chapel to make the second shuffle. Armory on Turn 4 just puts Chapel in your shuffle missing next hand.

Considering you want an Armory at all, your kingdom has enough sweet $4 or less cards that you do not immediately need that Silver, so this is a no brainer for me; open Chapel!
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Seprix

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Re: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 10:44:55 am »
0

Not opening Chapel and trying to top deck it with Armory drastically increases the chances that Chapel misses the first shuffle. You NEED Armory on Turn 3 for the newly gained Chapel to make the second shuffle. Armory on Turn 4 just puts Chapel in your shuffle missing next hand.

Considering you want an Armory at all, your kingdom has enough sweet $4 or less cards that you do not immediately need that Silver, so this is a no brainer for me; open Chapel!

I think so too. I was just presented with an interesting board on the first game of the Dominion Championship S16, where Armory could pick up a ton of Moats and Walled Villages, which aren't so great in the beginning. I was wondering then whether to open Silver/Armory to hopefully spike $5 and get a Lab, or just begin with trashing and not quite hit $5. Of course, you could just gain Silver with Armory and then hit $5 anyways.
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Re: Question Regarding Chapel and Armory
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 12:03:51 pm »
0

Not opening Chapel and trying to top deck it with Armory drastically increases the chances that Chapel misses the first shuffle. You NEED Armory on Turn 3 for the newly gained Chapel to make the second shuffle. Armory on Turn 4 just puts Chapel in your shuffle missing next hand.

Considering you want an Armory at all, your kingdom has enough sweet $4 or less cards that you do not immediately need that Silver, so this is a no brainer for me; open Chapel!

I think so too. I was just presented with an interesting board on the first game of the Dominion Championship S16, where Armory could pick up a ton of Moats and Walled Villages, which aren't so great in the beginning. I was wondering then whether to open Silver/Armory to hopefully spike $5 and get a Lab, or just begin with trashing and not quite hit $5. Of course, you could just gain Silver with Armory and then hit $5 anyways.

I think that's the correct play, gaining Silver with Armory when you have reasonable confidence you'll hit 5 and not hit Chapel next turn, and gaining Walled Village if you won't. You open Chapel / Armory and then the following situations play out:
1. Chapel in Turn 3: Trash everything, Armory in Turn 4: Gain a Silver if there are Coppers left in your remaining 2 cards.
2. Armory in Turn 3: Gain Walled Village, since you can't risk falling behind in the Chapel race with a wasted Silver gain. Chapel is either Turn 4 or 5.
3. Collision in Turn 3/4: Trash 3 cards and sigh.

I feel these scenarios play out better and are more likely to be helpful than the Silver open scenarios. Trash first, but $5s every turn later, or get lucky and spike one early $5 while slowing down both your trashing and gaining on average? Not tough.
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