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Author Topic: Historian / Antiquarian  (Read 2145 times)

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pacovf

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Historian / Antiquarian
« on: August 24, 2016, 01:54:05 am »
0

Eh, I'm on a roll.

Quote
Historian: Action, 5$
+1 Card
+1 Action

While this card is in play, when you would draw a card, instead look through your discard pile and put one card from it in your hand and another on top of your deck.

Seems hard to price, the "card on top of your deck"  is clunky but tries to limit how ridiculously broken this is when drawn at the end of your shuffle. On the other hand, it might make it even more powerful, hard to say.

Another version, less broken (and hence less fun) would be:

Quote
Antiquarian: Action, 5$
+3 cards

While this card is in play, when you would draw a card, you may instead look through your discard pile and put one card from it on top of your deck.

This version needs a whole lot more support than Historian to go bananas, but hey worst case scenario it's still a Smithy!

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 01:55:49 am by pacovf »
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majiponi

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 02:20:01 am »
+1

Historian: Action, 5$
+1 Card
+1 Action

While this card is in play, when you would draw a card, instead look through your discard pile and put one card from it in your hand and another on top of your deck.
So, this card does nothing but +1 Action when your discard pile is empty, right?
What happens when you try to draw when your deck is empty? Reshuffle? Or putting a card into your hand?
How about making this optional?
Or using Journey token?
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tristan

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 03:36:00 am »
+1

This card is similar to Gubump's Granary and Cookielord's Beachcomb in terms of drawing from the discard pile.
While this sounds incredibly strong we all know since Settlers that you do very often not have a discard pile to draw from. I find it hard to judge the power level of Historian but my hunch is that it is OK. Sure, it will be brilliant if you draw all your good stuff shortly before shuffling but sometimes it will simply do nothing.
I would consider to reduce it to simply drawing from the discard pile. All the topdecking does is putting one good card on top of your deck for the next turn.
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mail-mi

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 02:32:20 pm »
+1

I would consider to reduce it to simply drawing from the discard pile. All the topdecking does is putting one good card on top of your deck for the next turn.
Not true. You have to top deck something every time you draw a card, and it runs out the discard pile more quickly.
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tristan

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 03:05:21 pm »
+1

My mistake, I somehow thought that you will draw the topdecked card but of course you will draw from the discard pile.
I don't know, it has advantages  (you can prepare your next hand) and disadvantages (as you said, you will run out of the discard pile respectively out of good cards out of the discard pile faster).
Seems needlessly complex for my taste.
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pacovf

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 09:22:44 pm »
0

So, this card does nothing but +1 Action when your discard pile is empty, right?

Correct

Quote
What happens when you try to draw when your deck is empty? Reshuffle? Or putting a card into your hand?

Put card into your hand. You never actually draw a card, so you don't need to reshuffle.

Quote
How about making this optional?

The whole point of the card was that it isn't optional, so you have to time it right :p

Quote
Or using Journey token?

Mmmm... that's not a bad idea, but for another card, I think.

My mistake, I somehow thought that you will draw the topdecked card but of course you will draw from the discard pile.
I don't know, it has advantages  (you can prepare your next hand) and disadvantages (as you said, you will run out of the discard pile respectively out of good cards out of the discard pile faster).
Seems needlessly complex for my taste.

Basically, yeah... Another possibility would be to set a card aside, discarding at the end of your turn, which would give the same penalty without actually helping you set up your next turn. But that just makes it even more complicated. Any way to curb down the best case scenario (which is a really, really good best case scenario considering how little it takes to set up) ramps the complexity very quickly...

Another idea would be:

Quote
Carnival: Action-Duration, 7$
At the start of each turn for the rest of the game, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck, then discard them.

While this card is in play, when you would draw a card during your Action phase, instead look through your discard pile and put one card from it in your hand.
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Asper

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Re: Historian / Antiquarian
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 04:00:51 pm »
+1

Truth be told, i'm not a fan of card ideas that change the effect of other cards while they are in play. First, they create rules, which are not necessarily impossible to overcome, but can become confusing nonetheless. All "if you would" is complicated - consider Donald's remarks about Trader. Also, they do not stack usually. Most of the time i think sticking the ability on the card directly is the better option. An example would be Co0kieL0rd's Beachcomb, which reads:

+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it in your hand.

Obviously this is not too rarely better than Lab, although it gets weaker when your discard pile is empty. Note how it is never entirely useless and never harms you. Unwittingly harming myself isn't something i like to do. I'm not saying this is perfectly balanced (his card costs $6 and has a Reaction to avoid strictly-better discussions), but it's the better implementation in my opinion.
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