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Author Topic: Usurer  (Read 2951 times)

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pacovf

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Usurer
« on: August 22, 2016, 09:25:06 pm »
+1

The new version of Refurbish (from Enterprise, by LFN) got me thinking...

Quote
Usurer: Action, 4$
+1 buy
Gain two Coppers. Trash this or a non-Treasure card from your hand. Copper produces an extra 2$ this turn.

Power level might be wildly off. The idea is a card that is rapidly destroying your deck, but that actually thrives in the sort of deck it creates, if only you can sustain it long enough.

Thoughts?



Original version:

Quote
Usurer: Action, 4$
+1 buy
Gain two Coppers. Trash this or a non-Treasure card from your hand.

While this card is in play, Copper produce 2$ more.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 01:19:23 am by pacovf »
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McGarnacle

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 09:42:44 am »
+1

The new version of Refurbish (from Enterprise, by LFN) got me thinking...

Quote
Usurer: Action, 4$
+1 buy
Gain two Coppers. Trash this or a non-Treasure card from your hand.

While this card is in play, Copper produce 2$ more.

Power level might be wildly off. The idea is a card that is rapidly destroying your deck, but that actually thrives in the sort of deck it creates, if only you can sustain it long enough.

Thoughts?

Looks to me like a better Coppersmith. Since I have limited experience with Intrigue, I'm not sure how it would play out. Looks interesting, though  :).
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pacovf

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 07:15:51 pm »
0

Well, Usurer trashes good stuff (after you trash your first Estates), and junks your deck, so it's definitely not a better Coppersmith. Beggar was the card that I was trying not to get too similar to (short term benefit in exchange for long term hurdle).
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Asper

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 12:55:22 am »
+1

Is it intentional you don't get more for your Coppers if you choose to trash itself? Because that sounds only marginally better (if at all) than not trashing playing it. Except maybe on a Gardens board...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 06:41:01 pm by Asper »
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pacovf

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 01:06:56 am »
0

That wasn't intentional, actually...

Usurer makes a deck full of Copper actually be good, so the idea is that you wouldn't want to trash Usurer, because then your deck full of Copper would be back to being awful. You're saying that you would only consider using Usurer as a one-shot?
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Titandrake

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 01:16:31 am »
+1

As stated, Usurer only gives you a benefit if you do trash a non-Treasure card from your hand. With current wording I'd say it compares unfavorably to Death Cart.
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Asper

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 10:02:08 am »
+1

That wasn't intentional, actually...

Usurer makes a deck full of Copper actually be good, so the idea is that you wouldn't want to trash Usurer, because then your deck full of Copper would be back to being awful. You're saying that you would only consider using Usurer as a one-shot?

No, the opposite - i'd never use Usurer if i have to trash it.

Also, i wonder what's better: Try to build an engine that can play several Usurers at once and buys the majority of Provinces in one turn, or just trashing your starting Estates immediately to replace them with Provinces, milling the Province pile afterwards. Of course, the second strategy can be improved by buying more Usurers whenever you only have $4.
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pacovf

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 08:52:32 pm »
+1

I changed the wording so that it works even if it trashes itself.

Also, i wonder what's better: Try to build an engine that can play several Usurers at once and buys the majority of Provinces in one turn, or just trashing your starting Estates immediately to replace them with Provinces, milling the Province pile afterwards. Of course, the second strategy can be improved by buying more Usurers whenever you only have $4.

If you can play 3 Usurers in the same turn then draw the 6 gained Coppers, you get 42$ and 3 buys. With 4 Usurers, 72$. It's not really what I had in mind, but short of replacing the effect with "Copper produce 3$ instead", I don't see how to curb the crazy potential of Usurer for decks that overdraw themselves.

Milling the Provinces seems very bad though. I don't know how easy it would be to do without actually playtesting the card...
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Asper

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 09:18:36 pm »
+1

Milling the Provinces seems very bad though. I don't know how easy it would be to do without actually playtesting the card...

Well, i have to trash three of my Estates for Provinces and mill two more to make sure you can't beat me with Provinces alone (if you also trash your starting Estates). I'm not sure it's really that bad, but of course lining up Usurer gets increasingly harder and you're not guaranteed for it to happen ever...
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pacovf

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 09:27:48 pm »
+1

Well, it's more like, if you draw Usurer and 4 Coppers, you can both buy a Province and a Usurer, so it doesn't matter that you are trashing it.
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Asper

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 11:46:54 pm »
+1

Well, it's more like, if you draw Usurer and 4 Coppers, you can both buy a Province and a Usurer, so it doesn't matter that you are trashing it.

Yes - with the new wording, this works. The old one depended on drawing something to trash with it. As it is in the OP, i'm pretty sure just buying Provinces whenever you can and Usurer whenever you can't wins the game. I mean, i'll trash my Estates whenever possible and trash Usurer if necessary. Maybe it's better to trash Estate and buy two Usurers the first time instead of a Province, instead - but i suspect Usurer like this doesn't leave the opponent enough time to create an engine that would actually play several a turn.
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popsofctown

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Re: Usurer
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 12:05:28 pm »
0

So monolithic leaning.  Needs to be potion cost or something.  I'm pretty sure the big money bot for this will outpace engines
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