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Author Topic: New game (currently unnamed) playtest  (Read 27181 times)

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New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« on: August 16, 2016, 02:01:30 pm »

Alright, who wants to give a new and almost completely untested game a spin? I did a playtest on my own, but considering it's a bidding game that uh doesn't work so well. Still it worked and seemed interesting enough, after balancing a few notably broken things.

Rough rules overview
The game takes place over 3 main stages, with each being 3 turns long. There's also a setup turn (at the start) and a final scoring turn (at the end). Each turn, every player will collect income, in the form of three colours of cubes - Red, Green and Blue, and then take turns bidding for the card they want on a bidding track. Once everyone's bids are finalised, everyone buys their card. After everyone has bought a card, the turn ends and the next turn starts.

Notes about this being an alpha version
A lot of stuff might not be set in stone. The rules may be missing edge cases, cards may have unclear interactions, some stuff might be worded slightly incorrectly and have the wrong effect if taken literally, you know, that kind of stuff. On top of that, some things might become clearly broken as we play (especially a lot of the non-numerical stuff which is hard to quantify without seeing it actually in play). Hopefully, we won't need to change anything as we go, but as a last resort I may have to.

I also actually changed how the bidding works since my playtest version, which might have changed some stuff, but I doubt it'll change too much balance wise. Mostly it should make the game more fun and fair.

And of course, there's a very good chance the game won't be especially fun. Sorry. But it might be really fun!

Card List

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4JnyGQurC2NJiobtbzCTQ3BA5E7wtRZIqKmkPP1Foo/edit?usp=sharing

Full rules

Firstly I apologise in advance that some of this stuff will be as though it were rules for a physical game, while others will be more like PBF format. Hopefully it'll be clear enough though.

Setup
At the start of the game, each player takes a copy of the base card, which reads:

Exchange: 5R>G and 8R>B. Income: RRRR

This gives the player their starting income, as well as an exchange option (explained later). From the stage 3 deck, shuffle and deal cards face up until two with the public scoring mark have been dealt. Put these two cards so everyone can see them, and shuffle the remaining cards back into the deck. At the end of the game, these cards will score points for everyone.

Shuffle each of the stage 1, 2 and 3 decks. With the stage 1 deck, deal a face up set of cards of size equal to the number of players. These will be the cards available in the first turn of stage 1. Put them to the side for now, however players may look through them at any time. Repeat this process two more times to make the turn 2 and turn 3 sets of cards for stage 1, then repeat this whole process for the stage 2 and then finally stage 3 decks. This will make 9 sets of cards.

Place the 6 start cards by the bidding track. Even in a game with less than 6 players, you still use all 6 cards.

Finally, choose a first player randomly and give them the first player card. This will rotate anti-clockwise each turn.

Cards
Each card does one/two of several possible things:

1 off: Gives you the listed cubes immediately, but nothing else.

Income: Gives you the listed cube(s) at the start of every turn from now on.

Exchange: Lists one or more ways you may trade cubes. For example: "8R>B" means you can trade 8 Red cubes to get one Blue cube. Most exchanges are one way. If they are two way, they will have the <> symbol, for example "3R<>G" means you can trade 3 Red cubes for 1 Green cube, or 1 Green cube for 3 Red cubes. Exchanges may be done any number of times per turn, when you are buying a card, and also during the final scoring turn.

Effect: This card does something special. Read the text carefully and apply its effects. Some effect cards do something immediately and only once, other effect cards may have an effect several times.

Scoring: Gives you points at the end of the game. Each Scoring card will give you points for a certain thing. Some scoring cards require you to do something immediately. Otherwise, they take effect at the end of the game during final scoring.

Cube values
Whenever anything revers to using cube values (such as bidding), these are used: Red cubes are worth 1. Green cubes are worth 3. Blue cubes are worth 5.

Gameplay
Each turn in the game proceeds the same way.

1) Deal out the cards for this turn by the bidding track, which were set aside during setup [the bidding track goes from 0-20 on each card]

2) Each player collects their income. This is shown on cards which say "Income:". With the base card, everyone will collect 4 Red cubes for the start turn. Subsequently, players may have to check all of their cards carefully for their complete income.

3) Starting with the first player and proceeding clockwise, each player may place their bidding token onto a card's bidding track, showing a bid for that card. Players may not bid higher than the value of cubes they own. If a player has already bid on a card and a player wishes to bid on that card themselves, they must bid a larger amount - i.e. they have to place their bidding token on a higher space. If a player outbids someone like this, that player immediately takes their token back and must place it somewhere else. If they place it on another bidding track above another player, this process may repeat several times. They may also place the token back onto a track they were initially outbid on, however of course they must exceed the current winning bid on that track to do so. This continues until a player choose to instead bid on a new card which does not yet have bids, after which play will continue clockwise on to the next player who has not yet bid.

4) Once everyone has bid one one card each, the bidding phase ends and players buy their card. This is done in turn order clockwise from the first player (often this can be done simultaneously, however players should pay attention to effect cards which may require the turn order to be followed, or if any player requests it be done in order, then it should be done player by player as well). Each player must pay their bid in cube value, and must choose to either buy or discard the card they have won. In the start turn, players may not discard the card they won. If they buy it, they must pay the cost printed on the card, and then put it in play in front of them, following any instructions or effects it has. If they choose to discard it (or find they cannot afford it), they place it into a discard pile away from the main play area and instead take 6 value worth of cubes, for example they could take a Blue and Red cube. They do not pay the cost printed on the card when doing this.

During a players turn to buy a card, they may exchange cubes. This can be done both before and after buying a card, but only during their turn. Players may only use exchange cards they own for this, such as the base card and any others they have earned during the game.

5) After everyone has bought their card, they take back their bidding token and the first player card is passed anticlockwise. If it was the start turn, discard the remaining unbought start cards in a 3-5 player game. Then, repeat from step 1 for the next turn's set of cards (unless this is the final turn of stage 3, in which case go to final scoring)

Final scoring

1) Each player takes their income, as normal.

2) Flip the bidding board over to reveal the score track [This step may be unneeded in PBF]. Place each players bidding token on the 0 space (if a player has already accrued VPs due to immediate scoring effect cards, place them at the correct space immediately)

3) Each player totals points from their own scoring cards, advancing their token on the scoring track to show this.

4) Then, everyone scores the points from the two public goals. These score points in the same way that scoring cards you have bought do, you do not need to pay for them.

5) The player with the most points wins! The player with the least points packs the game away.

FAQ
Q: Didn't you just finish writing the rules? How are there already frequently...
A: Shut up.

Q: Do you get income during the start turn?
A: Yes. You will get income a total of 11 times over the game: During the start turn, during each of the three turns in the three stages, and once during final scoring.

Q: With Scoring cards, do I have to choose which cubes apply for which cards?
A: No, unless a card specifically requires you to spend the cubes. If a Scoring card says nothing, you could use the same cubes to score on two or more different cards.

Q: With [Card 22 Stage 1], do you keep the first player token forever?
A: No. First player continues to be passed around like normal, and first player still follows all of the normal rules except with bidding. All that changes is that before the first player places his first bid, you may choose to bid first, or you may choose to pass, ignore the normal clockwise order, and bid only once everyone else has bid.

Q: With [Card 27 Stage 1/2], can I just copy the other stage version of this card and cause an infinite loop where...
A: Shut up.

Q: Do cubes on [Card 25 Stage 2] still count as yours for final scoring?
A: Yes. Asides from sitting on the card, they're still your cubes in every way that matters. If you spend those cubes for anything however, they can never go back onto the card.

Signups

Kuildeous
Seprix
Kirian
Schadd
Ghostofmars

I'd like to get to about 4 ideally. 3-6 is the player count I currently think it'll work with.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 02:44:35 pm by Tables »
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Kuildeous

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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2016, 02:04:13 pm »

Sign up now. Read rules later.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 02:15:30 pm »

I'll try to give it a spin.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 03:42:46 pm »

Okay, so bidding is Evo-style. I like that style.

If G = 3R and B = 5R for bidding purposes, I don't see the benefit of using the starting card's exchange value ever. I imagine there are other cards to bid for that have much more favorable exchange rates. I also imagine that the scoring cards will determine which cubes are going to be the most desired, which may mean engaging in unfavorable exchanges at the end of the game. I'm sure things will become clearer to me as I watch the cards be laid out.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 03:57:31 pm »

Okay, so bidding is Evo-style. I like that style.

If G = 3R and B = 5R for bidding purposes, I don't see the benefit of using the starting card's exchange value ever.


It's more of a backup option. You can inefficiently always get Green or Blue should you need it, but it'd be more efficient to use a better exchange card or just get the resources yourself another way. Speaking of which, the card list is linked.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2016, 04:55:10 pm »

Sure, /in
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 05:31:17 pm »

Alright, we have enough to play, although I'm gonna leave it a little longer since I think 4 or 5 would work better as a starting point.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 10:11:12 pm »

me also! as well
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 11:19:22 pm »

suggestion: replace 'cube' with 'nazi'
general case of that suggestion: make the three cubes different things. the initial hurdle for appreciating the game, for me, was that it seems like you are bidding numbers for better numbers. if all three of the cubes are different thematically, then i'm like, ooh, why are they different? and bang! immediately i want to know what the deal is with these and how they diverge strategically. having them be nazis achieves this goal because they can instead be ss officers, himmlers and hitlers. hitler wields the power of loyalty, himmler wields the power of cleverness, and the ss officers all have guns, usually
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 03:26:52 am »

I can confirm that I give guns to all my minions.

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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 06:33:48 am »

suggestion: replace 'cube' with 'nazi'
general case of that suggestion: make the three cubes different things. the initial hurdle for appreciating the game, for me, was that it seems like you are bidding numbers for better numbers. if all three of the cubes are different thematically, then i'm like, ooh, why are they different? and bang! immediately i want to know what the deal is with these and how they diverge strategically. having them be nazis achieves this goal because they can instead be ss officers, himmlers and hitlers. hitler wields the power of loyalty, himmler wields the power of cleverness, and the ss officers all have guns, usually

Thank you for your suggestion.

I definitely plan to add some theme at some point, but I'm a mechanics up type person, so right now it's all arbitrary.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 08:08:33 am »

Looks like this is already full? If there is still some space or if there is a second game /in
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2016, 09:11:56 am »

5 players is fine. I've added you in. I'll actually start things off soon.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 10:37:12 am »

Okay, the game is set up and ready to start.

A few notes I guess:

1) COs (Conditional Orders) can help speed things up considerable. Just send me a PM saying something like "If I'm outbid on card 7, I'll bid 1 more on it up to 6. If it's already at 6 I'll just bid 0 on card 14 if possible." That kind of thing, so if I'm online when you're outbid I can quickly take your turn for you (and if I have COs from several people, I can go through multiple at once). Don't worry about making your COs complete, obviously there's going to be times you'll want to come back and make a choice, although the first turn or two will likely be pretty simple.

2) I would love to hear your thoughts on the game via PMs. This can be a mixture of strategy thoughts, gameplay thoughts, what you feel does or doesn't work well in the game, suggestions, everything. Most likely, the game's gonna have a bunch of stuff that needs changing, and that's fine, that's expected.

3) Game spreadsheet can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4JnyGQurC2NJiobtbzCTQ3BA5E7wtRZIqKmkPP1Foo/edit#gid=1357006813

Since the game has no hidden elements, I'm just going to use that sheet for everything. I'm going to make a version that can be posted into the thread, especially because I'm sure there'll be a few curious people who aren't playing who want to keep vague track of what's going on, so uh yeah you won't have to keep looking at the sheet for everything, but if you want to see what cards are coming up in future rounds it could be useful for that.

Next post I'm going to use to post the initial setup conditions and stuff, but if you've got an itchy trigger finger, the turn order and start cards (which are always the same) are on that sheet, so feel free to get some bids ready.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 10:37:21 am »

Current turn: Start
Current player: Kirian

Current turn order:
Kirian
Ghostofmars
Seprix
Schadd
Kuildeous

Currently available cards:
Card No.   Effect   Cost   Current Bid
Card 1   Income: R   0   
Card 2   Income: R   0   
Card 3   1 off: B   0   
Card 4   1 off: B   0   
Card 5   1 off: GRR   0   
Card 6   1 off: GRR   0   

Public Scoring Cards
Scoring: Score 7 VP per Scoring card from stage 1 or 2 that you own
Scoring: Score 5 VP per Effect card you own

PlayerRedGreenBlueRed IncGreen IncBlue IncVPs
Kirian4004000
Ghostofmars4004000
Seprix4004000
Schadd4004000
Kuildeous4004000

Link to game sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4JnyGQurC2NJiobtbzCTQ3BA5E7wtRZIqKmkPP1Foo/edit#gid=1357006813

Right, with that, I think we're ready to begin. Any rules questions feel free to ask.

I don't want to give too many hints, but it might be worth looking at the cards which will be available in stage 1A to decide what you want to get here. You all get your initial income of 4R which you can use to bid, but otherwise these cards are free. Also note that since there are 6 cards and 5 players one will be left unbought at the end.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 11:16:47 am by Tables »
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2016, 02:42:44 pm »

Minor rules update

You cannot choose to discard when picking your start card.

You cannot place a bid greater than the value in cubes that you own.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2016, 06:27:57 pm »

Hm, OK.  Are bids of zero allowed?

If so, I bid 0 on Card 1

Else, I bid 1 on Card 1
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2016, 07:20:19 pm »

Yes, bids of 0 are allowed. On to Ghostofmars next.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2016, 03:30:08 am »

I'd like to clarify one thing, because I didn't find it in the rules. The cards stage 1 and above mention a Base, e.g. the Stage I, Card 2 has a base of GRR. Does this base correspond to the minimum bid, so I couldn't bid on the card if I don't have at least one G?

Okay, the game is set up and ready to start.

A few notes I guess:

1) COs (Conditional Orders) can help speed things up considerable. Just send me a PM saying something like "If I'm outbid on card 7, I'll bid 1 more on it up to 6. If it's already at 6 I'll just bid 0 on card 14 if possible." That kind of thing, so if I'm online when you're outbid I can quickly take your turn for you (and if I have COs from several people, I can go through multiple at once). Don't worry about making your COs complete, obviously there's going to be times you'll want to come back and make a choice, although the first turn or two will likely be pretty simple.

2) I would love to hear your thoughts on the game via PMs. This can be a mixture of strategy thoughts, gameplay thoughts, what you feel does or doesn't work well in the game, suggestions, everything. Most likely, the game's gonna have a bunch of stuff that needs changing, and that's fine, that's expected.
I would prefer creating a Quicktopic thread where I post my thoughts and share the link with you. Then the other players can read it after the game, if they want. Should I also post the CO's in the QT thread or still send a PM?
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2016, 05:17:17 am »

I would prefer COs in a PM as I'm more likely to see them. But a QT for thoughts is okay, I'll be sure to check it at times.

Your bid and the cost of a card are separate. So you could bid on a card that costs GRR even if you have no Green. You could use exchanges to get that Green, or if you win it you may choose to simply discard the card for 6 cubes of value.

So for example, if you won a card with cost GRR and you had bid 4, you have two choices:

Pay the bid of 4 (e.g. GR or RRRR) and then pay GRR to take the card, using an exchange to get the G if needed.
Pay the bid of 4, but then discard the card and take 6 cubes of value instead.
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2016, 06:13:47 am »

Bid 0 for 1-off: B
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2016, 06:38:28 am »

Current turn: Start
Current player: Seprix

Current turn order:
Kirian
Ghostofmars
Seprix
Schadd
Kuildeous

Currently available cards:
Card No.   Effect   Cost   Current Bid
Card 1   Income: R   0   0, Kirian
Card 2   Income: R   0   
Card 3   1 off: B   0   0, Ghostofmars
Card 4   1 off: B   0   
Card 5   1 off: GRR   0   
Card 6   1 off: GRR   0   

Public Scoring Cards
Scoring: Score 7 VP per Scoring card from stage 1 or 2 that you own
Scoring: Score 5 VP per Effect card you own

PlayerRedGreenBlueRed IncGreen IncBlue IncVPs
Kirian4004000
Ghostofmars4004000
Seprix4004000
Schadd4004000
Kuildeous4004000

Link to game sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4JnyGQurC2NJiobtbzCTQ3BA5E7wtRZIqKmkPP1Foo/edit#gid=1357006813
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2016, 11:47:05 am »

Bid 4 R for 1-Off B, over ghostofmars
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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2016, 12:12:05 pm »

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Re: New game (currently unnamed) playtest
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2016, 12:15:43 pm »

Bid 4 R for 1-Off B, over ghostofmars

At this point it doesn't matter, but you don't in general need to specify what types of cubes you intend to use until you win.

By CO, Schadd bids 1 for card 4 (1 Blue), ghost responds by bidding 2, leaving it Schadd's turn again

Current turn: Start
Current player: Schadd

Current turn order:
Kirian
Ghostofmars
Seprix
Schadd
Kuildeous

Currently available cards:
Card No.   Effect   Cost   Current Bid
Card 1   Income: R   0   0, Kirian
Card 2   Income: R   0   
Card 3   1 off: B   0   4, Seprix
Card 4   1 off: B   0   2, Ghostofmars
Card 5   1 off: GRR   0   
Card 6   1 off: GRR   0   

Public Scoring Cards
Scoring: Score 7 VP per Scoring card from stage 1 or 2 that you own
Scoring: Score 5 VP per Effect card you own

PlayerRedGreenBlueRed IncGreen IncBlue IncVPs
Kirian4004000
Ghostofmars4004000
Seprix4004000
Schadd4004000
Kuildeous4004000

Link to game sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z4JnyGQurC2NJiobtbzCTQ3BA5E7wtRZIqKmkPP1Foo/edit#gid=1357006813
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
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