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[schadd]

castle ownership is all about networking, man. you gotta have a bunch of em

these are often gonna be something that you get after deciding not to get provinces, for the time being.
  pros vs. provinces:
-they help you before the game is over
-$52 vs. $64, scaled conveniently
-comparable vp—having all castles is minimum 45, and grand castle can potentially push it over 48
-game doesn't end with the pile; good because you have built a bit more by virtue of having castles
cons vs. provinces:
-a couple extra junk cards—silver, duchy (or estates), maybe gold lmao
-humble and king's castle have huge bites taken out of them if the opponent denies a few castles, and it is very often easy and convenient to do that, especially via small castle milling
-pathfinding on castles, draw & discard pile empty; use king's court on small castle


so maybe they don't want to compete with provinces, i dunno. they do all do different things.


-is it at all possible that someone can roll over the castles in entirety and take all of them?
-or does no one ever even want to be the first one to pick up humble castle?
-what determines a game where these are appealing or unappealing? ability to draw/play a bunch of victory cards? +buys?

[jomini]

The big problem I see with Castle is how easily you Small Castle can destroy a Castle strategy.

It is exceedingly easy to poach King's castle if you pick it up in an engine. A 16 VP swing for a single Dlands equivalent is pretty harsh. Obviously, going for a Grand/King combo mitigates this, but that is a huge amount of cash to generate, with 2 buys with a good number of dead cards in deck. Opulent can you get you the cash, but it is a terminal and needs a good bit of draw.

If you managed to lose Small & any other cheap castle it basically destroys a Castle run as your opponent can mill Castles for only 2 draw and an action.

I suspect this will mean that the best castle strategy is to go for Humble and then one turn up Crumbling & Small or aim for $12 & 3 buys.

Not contesting seems very poor. The VP swing for denial is 10 for something like Haunted and Castles absolutely are friendlier to the deck that provinces (sprawling excepted). Ironmonger is insanely good with lots of double effects and of course this means that Tribute can draft off the other player as well. Fairgrounds should be interesting - very handy for collecting uniques ... but in direct competition with the main point source.

One fun interaction is how Castles can work with Chariot race. If you can control top deck (e.g. Count), you can very quickly ensure that you win at least one race and potentially all of them (e.g. draw all and the discard just Gcastle or Kcastle). Likewise, Smason can churn some serious points from Gcastle & Kcastle while Ritual can let you get a lot of points out for denying big Castles.

[Chris is me]

I don't think we will fully understand Castles until long after we can play a hundred games with them online.

They seem kinda sloggy, but you want some engine potential in the kingdom too? You need to get more and more money. You need to be building an engine that is not only tolerant to greening, it's tolerant to greening *while being built*, and also produces more money over time.

If your opponent goes for Castles, you really do want to get Small Castle. It's possible the Castles builder will want to wait until they have $9/2 Buy to secure it. Along those lines, you may want to try and gain Grand and King's Castle in the same turn if you're competing for them.

[Seprix]

Castles is arguably the most intriguing thing about Empires. I have no idea how good these cards will be. My gut tells me that Castles won't be very good, but unlike Raid, I can't really say that with confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if Castles turn out to be awful or amazing. I just don't know with Castles. I am hoping that MQ or Stef or Dan would chime in here and talk about them.

[Dingan]

I don't think we will fully understand Castles until long after we can play a hundred games with them online.

But will their power depend on the board?

[singletee]

Neat trick: Apprentice Haunted Castle to draw a bunch of cards. Later that turn, Graverob or Rogue it back, attacking your opponent and giving you free Gold. Apprentice is best for this but you could use other TfB if you have another source of draw.

[schadd]

you could use other TfB if you have another source of draw.

the obvious one is small castle

[J Reggie]

Castles is arguably the most intriguing thing about Empires.

Since it has several action-victory cards and even a treasure-victory card?

[jomini]

Neat trick: Apprentice Haunted Castle to draw a bunch of cards. Later that turn, Graverob or Rogue it back, attacking your opponent and giving you free Gold. Apprentice is best for this but you could use other TfB if you have another source of draw.

In similar vein, it would be hilarious to use Amb/Lhouse to return & gain Gcastle multiple times. Talk about a dilemma - do you play the Lhouse to stop getting spammed with coppers/curses/estates or do you let them cycle Gcastle for say 8 VP per turn?

Obviously you can more reliably manage this sort of thing with Highway/Bridge (question -  and Grobber/Rogue, but it is much more fun to imagine with Amb/Lhouse.

You could do the same with Spcastle or Ccastle if you were so inclined, but they seem to be less interesting.

In general, Grobber/Rogue are both likely to make Small that much more clutch. You can trash out Castles for the big ones - so no need for big coin, and then regain the cheap ones. This will likely highlight the tension from building an engine (so you can use stuff) vs early gain of Castles.

[Seprix]

Castles is arguably the most intriguing thing about Empires.

Since it has several action-victory cards and even a treasure-victory card?

Yes! Someone noticed the play on words! You deserve all the upvotes. All of them.