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Author Topic: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)  (Read 54441 times)

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Deadlock39

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2016, 12:34:23 pm »
+1

Without the stacking, it seems like it could probably just be dropped to $4.  Sure, it might get "cwazy" with the right support, but so does Fortress.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #101 on: September 01, 2016, 12:51:20 pm »
0

It just seems like having you discard a card would really well. It doesn't make the card stronger (generally will make it weaker), while also ensuring that it's ability will always do something.
That was my reasoning when I added that part, but AH dissagreed. I can kinda see his side but I still like the built in discarding.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #102 on: September 01, 2016, 12:55:24 pm »
+1

It just seems like having you discard a card would really well. It doesn't make the card stronger (generally will make it weaker), while also ensuring that it's ability will always do something.
That was my reasoning when I added that part, but AH dissagreed. I can kinda see his side but I still like the built in discarding.

How about this, then? I don't think I am a fan of the optional 'you may discard a card', because than the card get's real close to Bazaar. But this seems pretty good. Maybe could be even $4 then, I don't know.

Quote
Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Discard a card.
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2016, 01:00:34 pm »
+1

Looks very similar to Plaza.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2016, 01:07:13 pm »
+3

Looks very similar to Plaza.

When there are no sifters, sure. When there is any of them (and there are a lot), it seems remarkably stronger.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2016, 01:24:01 pm »
+1

It just seems like having you discard a card would really well. It doesn't make the card stronger (generally will make it weaker), while also ensuring that it's ability will always do something.
That was my reasoning when I added that part, but AH dissagreed. I can kinda see his side but I still like the built in discarding.

How about this, then? I don't think I am a fan of the optional 'you may discard a card', because than the card get's real close to Bazaar. But this seems pretty good. Maybe could be even $4 then, I don't know.

Quote
Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Discard a card.
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.

This is the card I was suggesting. I didn't think anyone was talking about an optional discard.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2016, 01:25:38 pm »
+1

Looks very similar to Plaza.

When there are no sifters, sure. When there is any of them (and there are a lot), it seems remarkably stronger.

Even without other sifters, I'm pretty sure it's a good bit stronger, because if you have at least 1 junk or useless card in your hand, it's still a Bazaar. Plaza doesn't let you discard useless cards.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2016, 01:32:38 pm »
+1

It just seems like having you discard a card would really well. It doesn't make the card stronger (generally will make it weaker), while also ensuring that it's ability will always do something.
That was my reasoning when I added that part, but AH dissagreed. I can kinda see his side but I still like the built in discarding.

How about this, then? I don't think I am a fan of the optional 'you may discard a card', because than the card get's real close to Bazaar. But this seems pretty good. Maybe could be even $4 then, I don't know.

Quote
Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Discard a card.
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.

This is the card I was suggesting. I didn't think anyone was talking about an optional discard.

Excellent. We had optional discarding at one point. :)
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2016, 01:48:16 pm »
+2

Important clarification: Discard a card from your hand. This prevents confusion with spy, and makes Cartographer, Farming Village, and other top of your deck cards less powerful.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2016, 03:01:04 pm »
+3

Important clarification: Discard a card from your hand. This prevents confusion with spy, and makes Cartographer, Farming Village, and other top of your deck cards less powerful.

A shame. I was hoping to play my Golem for +$30.

Edit: Adventurer is probably more realistic here.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 03:03:33 pm by Asper »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2016, 03:09:38 pm »
+2

Important clarification: Discard a card from your hand. This prevents confusion with spy, and makes Cartographer, Farming Village, and other top of your deck cards less powerful.

A shame. I was hoping to play my Golem for +$30.

Edit: Adventurer is probably more realistic here.

Adventurer buff is great!
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trivialknot

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2016, 03:42:13 pm »
+2

The trouble with tracking discarding is that the power varies wildly depending on other cards.  Equestrian Village + Embassy seems runaway powerful.  Or EVil + Minion.  What if instead of tracking discards, it tracks handsize?

ie.
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Discard a card.
If you have less than 5 cards in your hand, +$1 for each card fewer than 5.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 03:44:27 pm by trivialknot »
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2016, 04:00:48 pm »
+1

Cavalry may be too good at $4 and too bad at $5. Not sure. It's good that the attack doesn't stack, so draw-to-X engines don't get too crazy.

Is there a reason for Celebration to say "you may"? The situation where you choose not to seems so edge-casey that it doesn't really warrant the additional text. Other than that, I kinda like the card. It's similar-ish to Trading Post, but probably better most of the time.

I'm not sure about EqV. Without other discard, it's worse than Bazaar. With other discard, it quickly get cwazy. There is no space where it's simply decent. I like trivialknot's variant on it, but would suggest Poor House's wording, i.e.
+5$
-1$ per card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2016, 04:26:56 pm »
+2

Important clarification: Discard a card from your hand. This prevents confusion with spy, and makes Cartographer, Farming Village, and other top of your deck cards less powerful.

A shame. I was hoping to play my Golem for +$30.

Edit: Adventurer is probably more realistic here.

Sage could be huge. Your opponent plays Fortune Teller would be really insane. Navigator, Cartographer... it's just too much. The thing with top-of-your-deck discards is that there's several that can discard a lot of cards at once. With hand discard, while there's plenty out there that lets you do it; only a few options are many cards at once.

The more I talk about this, the less I think that the card can work. There's too many broken combos. Equestrian Village + Warehouse or Cellar alone is pretty insane. Equestrian Village + Storeroom is an automatic Province just for having both in your hand. Equestrian Village + Vault is a Province (though so is Gold + Vault).

Fun fact, Temporum has a permanent "when you discard a card, +$1", and it's one of the weakest cards in the game.
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singletee

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2016, 04:35:32 pm »
+3

Maybe it could be "Whenever you discard one or more cards". It's still a decent boost, but doesn't become ridiculous.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2016, 04:37:15 pm »
+1

Important clarification: Discard a card from your hand. This prevents confusion with spy, and makes Cartographer, Farming Village, and other top of your deck cards less powerful.

A shame. I was hoping to play my Golem for +$30.

Edit: Adventurer is probably more realistic here.

Sage could be huge. Your opponent plays Fortune Teller would be really insane. Navigator, Cartographer... it's just too much. The thing with top-of-your-deck discards is that there's several that can discard a lot of cards at once. With hand discard, while there's plenty out there that lets you do it; only a few options are many cards at once.

The more I talk about this, the less I think that the card can work. There's too many broken combos. Equestrian Village + Warehouse or Cellar alone is pretty insane. Equestrian Village + Storeroom is an automatic Province just for having both in your hand. Equestrian Village + Vault is a Province (though so is Gold + Vault).

Fun fact, Temporum has a permanent "when you discard a card, +$1", and it's one of the weakest cards in the game.

The interaction with cellar and warehouse and storeroom is intended.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2016, 04:42:13 pm »
+2

Maybe it could be "Whenever you discard one or more cards". It's still a decent boost, but doesn't become ridiculous.
This might be my favorite so far.  I think right now it's either this or preventing themcoin from stacking.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2016, 09:07:52 am »
+2

This totally came to me in a dream last night:

Equestrian Village - Action-Gathering - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Discard a card.
-
While this is in play, when you discard a card, take a from here.
-
Setup: Place x on the Equestrian Village supply pile.


Not sure what a good number of VP to put on there would be. Though in my dream, the original idea was a lot more similar to this than it actually is; because it generated VP instead of for discarding.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #118 on: September 03, 2016, 01:47:39 pm »
0


Originally called coins, with coins current art.

Combos extremely well with Suburb.
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #119 on: September 03, 2016, 07:00:03 pm »
+1

Is Jackpot supposed to say "you may call this, for +$3," or is it supposed to be required? Also, what is this "Suburb" card you refer to that combos well with Saddle?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 07:01:48 pm by Gubump »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #120 on: September 03, 2016, 07:09:32 pm »
0

Is Jackpot supposed to say "you may call this, for +$3," or is it supposed to be required? Also, what is this "Suburb" card you refer to that combos well with Saddle?
Yes, it's on purpose that jackpot does not have a you may. Suburb is a card of co0kiel0rds.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2016, 01:17:34 pm »
+1

Then I fail to see why Jackpot is a Reserve.
It could just be a Duration like Archive that stays in play for 3 turns, provides 1 this turn, 2 next turn and 3 in the turn after the next turn.

I think it is far too strong for 4. Archive is a Double Lab smeared over 3 turns at a cost of 5 whereas Jackout provides 6 coins smeared over 3 turns at a cost of 4. You can also compare it to Merchant Ship. For giving up 1 Coin in the current turn you get 3 Coins two turns later. This is probably good more often than not so Jackpot has to cost at least 5.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #122 on: September 04, 2016, 01:31:34 pm »
+1

Then I fail to see why Jackpot is a Reserve.
It could just be a Duration like Archive that stays in play for 3 turns, provides 1 this turn, 2 next turn and 3 in the turn after the next turn.
Tracking issues. If you play 2 this turn, you have one in play from 2 turns ago, and one from last turn, it's a pain. This has a built-in tracking mechanism.

It could be too good for , but it's + now, which equals abandoned mine. Next turn it gives + which is decent, but no OP. Then it gives which is amazing. But this comes at the cost, that it misses 3x as many shuffles.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #123 on: September 04, 2016, 01:37:23 pm »
+1

Doesn't seem to be more complicated to track than Archive and trivial compared to Throne Room (variant) tracking.
I don't think that a card should get an extra type just to make tracking easier.

You make a good point about missing more shuffles than an ordinary Duration but I still think that this is roughly comparable in strength to Merchant Ship. At a price of 4 you can always open with it, play it (most likely) on turn 3 or 4 and even if it misses the second shuffle you get a total of 6 coins. That's brilliant in the early game.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #124 on: September 04, 2016, 01:43:59 pm »
+1

If you have multiple Jackpot's out, tracking is a bitch.

Archive auto-tracks: it has cards under/near it.

Jackpot is strong, but playtesting (I think I have a version of that card for close to a year now) has never revealed it to be superpowerful. Missing shiffles really hurts.
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