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Author Topic: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)  (Read 54424 times)

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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2016, 12:26:44 pm »
+2

Valley is basically 'transform victory cards into peddlers'. Stronghold is a perma-coin/buy, but it doesn't cycle. They are similar; but not identical, and have different ways and usages. But sure, the 'similarity' criticism is not invalid.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2016, 01:56:02 pm »
+1

Stronghold is a permaduration Market whereas Valley converts the first Victory card into a Peddler.
I don't think that Stronghold is exciting but the two cards are not really that similar as they would play very differently.
Suppose that both cards are in the same Kingdom. Stronghold might be used during build up, to buy several cheap engine cards, whereas Valley might be used for a rush (green early) or alt-VP.
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2016, 05:31:16 pm »
+1

Noticing that the card list/test status post has not been updated for the event and durations.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2016, 05:35:21 pm »
+1

I am moving, so time and internet access is relatively more scarce
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2016, 05:35:50 pm »
+2

Stronghold is a permaduration Market whereas Valley converts the first Victory card into a Peddler.
I don't think that Stronghold is exciting but the two cards are not really that similar as they would play very differently.
Suppose that both cards are in the same Kingdom. Stronghold might be used during build up, to buy several cheap engine cards, whereas Valley might be used for a rush (green early) or alt-VP.

They are different enough to warrant being different cards for sure. But when designing an expansion, I would try to avoid having a specific niche like "get $1 every turn" filled twice. I think they mentioned thinking about another expansion? Then put one here, one in the other.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2016, 06:33:52 pm »
0

Stronghold is a permaduration Market whereas Valley converts the first Victory card into a Peddler.
I don't think that Stronghold is exciting but the two cards are not really that similar as they would play very differently.
Suppose that both cards are in the same Kingdom. Stronghold might be used during build up, to buy several cheap engine cards, whereas Valley might be used for a rush (green early) or alt-VP.

They are different enough to warrant being different cards for sure. But when designing an expansion, I would try to avoid having a specific niche like "get $1 every turn" filled twice. I think they mentioned thinking about another expansion? Then put one here, one in the other.
We didn't design the expansion like this.

Disclaimer:
All the cards in Civilization are meant to work with all other official and most non-official cards, but they are not meant to be a complete set. Certain cards may fill similar niches, and attention was not paid to the balance of trashers, +Buy, villages, etc. I do not recommend you play games entirely of Civ.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2016, 04:03:11 am »
+1

Maybe we could, in due time. That's what beta testing is for.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2016, 11:44:22 am »
+1



Everyone's favorite trasher, trashing bad cards and turning them into good cards. If you are the only one trashing 2 different cards, you can get a $4, which is pretty good. If someone trashes something you aren't trashing, you can even get a $5 or a $6.

I trashed a silver once in trying to get a $5, and my opponent trashed nothing, so I had to settle for a $4, which was sad.

It gives a major benefit for all players on the table, so interaction without an attack, but if you benefit (when someone else plays miner), your opponent might as well get a very good card out of it, so is it worth it? You decide. I have played with it when my opponent trashed nothing, just to make sure I didn't get a good card, but maybe that wasn't optimal on his behalf.

But, like all civilization cards, you probably don't want 5 of these, but it's a pretty good card to start your deck with.

Shout out to Cookielord for the flashmechanic; a world of possibilities opens up there.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2016, 12:27:49 pm »
+1

This might need some clarification concerning the order of flashing. Normally this isn't necessary as a fixed amount of cards is flashed simultaneously but here the amount of cards you flash is up for choice and matters significantly.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2016, 03:21:51 pm »
0

That's a good point, it's assumed it's simultaneously, but I can see otherwise.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2016, 03:25:40 pm »
+1

Your opponents can see how many cards you are preparing to reveal, so I guess the 'preparing the cards' should be in turn order starting with the player on your left.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2016, 07:25:55 pm »
+1


A discard for benefit I'm surprised that hasn't been done before.

An reworked version of Party Time, an entrant into the prosperity contest.

Comboes with Stables, Saddle, Horse Trades, and Cavalry! That's why it has so many horses.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 07:26:57 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2016, 08:04:30 pm »
+1

Cavalry should have the Attack type.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #88 on: August 31, 2016, 08:12:42 pm »
0

Cavalry should have the Attack type.
Ah, poop, accidentally posted the older version.
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ConMan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #89 on: August 31, 2016, 09:37:07 pm »
+1

On its own, Equestrian Village provides coins similarly to Bank. Is it really just a $5?
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #90 on: August 31, 2016, 11:40:05 pm »
+1

On its own, Equestrian Village provides coins similarly to Bank. Is it really just a $5?
When I first read this I thought: Just a $5? You think it should be more? 'On its own' Equestrian Village is a bazaar that makes you discard a card.

Then I thought some more: With enablers (like warehouse, vault, forum, cellar, embassy), it can be incredibly strong. With enablers and multiple Equestrian Villages in play, it easily gets overpowered. It probably should cost $7 as-is. Even so, an engine with Equestrian Villages along with Forum or Embassy is going to generate tons of coin.

tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2016, 12:41:58 am »
+1

Celebration seems pretty strong compared to Monument (but then again you need the 2 cards in hand so perhaps it is OK) and Equestrian Village is totally crazy, converting every sifter into a monster.
About Cavalry, normally (i.e. you have 5 cards in hand when you play Cavalry) this is equivalent to draw 2 cards, discard 3, draw 3, everybody else down to 3.
So it draws the same amount of cards as Embassy but split up so it is worse. It is better than Embassy as there is no Silver gift and as there is the discard attack.
Hard to tell as it is a draw up to X but my guess is that this is closer to being a 5 than a 4.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 12:47:15 am by tristan »
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #92 on: September 01, 2016, 12:43:09 am »
+1

Celebration seems pretty strong compared to Monument (but then again you need the 2 cards in hand so perhaps it is OK) and Equestrian Village is totally crazy, converting every sifter into a monster.
And it also costs
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #93 on: September 01, 2016, 12:49:02 am »
+1

About Cavalry, normally (i.e. you have 5 cards in hand when you play Cavalry) this is equivalent to draw 2 cards, discard 3, draw 3, everybody else down to 3.
So it draws the same amount of cards as Embassy but split up so it is worse. It is better than Embassy as there is no Silver gift and as there is the discard attack.
Hard to tell as it is a draw up to X but my guess is that this is closer to being a 5 than a 4.

Celebration seems pretty strong compared to Monument (but then again you need the 2 cards in hand so perhaps it is OK) and Equestrian Village is totally crazy, converting every sifter into a monster.
And it also costs
I took this into account. Relative to Momument it provides an extra coin and an extra buy and while the trashing could be tricky (e.g. rarely Throne-able) I think that it is more of an asset than a liability.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #94 on: September 01, 2016, 08:48:11 am »
0

Unless I am mistaken on Cavalry, it should be:
1 Draw 2 cards.
2 Discard 3 cards.
3 Draw 2 cards +attack.

So that's a net gain of 1 card and some sifting. Maybe good, but not embassy level?

Celebration is defiantly strong, but it seems to be overrated. It's power level is about mercenary. It gives more VP than monument, but since you have to trash it can quickly become more of a hassle than monument.

Equestrian village had a few nerfs coming, but Adrian wanted the set out sooner, so we posted this version. We kinda figured it was good, but we wanted to know what exactly to nerf. Remove the +1 Action?, Limit the coins to equestrian village? there were plenty of ways to go.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #95 on: September 01, 2016, 10:44:12 am »
+2

I think Equestrian Village is a great idea, but balancing is indeed tricky. My thought is to not allow it to stack. The wording for that is very tricky; probably needs to be one of those weird Embargo type wordings...

"When you discard a card, + if you have at least 1 Equestrian Village in play".
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #96 on: September 01, 2016, 10:47:21 am »
+2

My favorite version was:

Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.



So more EV's gives no additional benefit, sometimes it's a plain village for $5 (sometimes foretress is just a village), but you gain coins from anywhere you discard.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #97 on: September 01, 2016, 12:11:15 pm »
+1

My favorite version was:

Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.



So more EV's gives no additional benefit, sometimes it's a plain village for $5 (sometimes foretress is just a village), but you gain coins from anywhere you discard.

I dunno, just a village for $4 is way better than just a village for $5. I think the card needs to allow discarding built in.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #98 on: September 01, 2016, 12:26:32 pm »
+1

My favorite version was:

Equestrian Village - $5
+1 Card
+2 Actions
-
When you discard a card with at least one equestrian village in play: +$1.



So more EV's gives no additional benefit, sometimes it's a plain village for $5 (sometimes foretress is just a village), but you gain coins from anywhere you discard.

I dunno, just a village for $4 is way better than just a village for $5. I think the card needs to allow discarding built in.

Well, just a village is even better at $3. I am not sure this is particularly convincing point for me. Even if it's 'just a village', well, it's a village at $5, and you plan your desired engine accordingly.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #99 on: September 01, 2016, 12:30:44 pm »
+2

It just seems like having you discard a card would work really well. It doesn't make the card stronger (generally will make it weaker), while also ensuring that it's ability will always do something.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 12:54:40 pm by GendoIkari »
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