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Author Topic: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)  (Read 13767 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2016, 03:02:16 pm »
+2

I don't like the ability to move other player's tokens... it feels like it makes Lost Arts, Pathfinding, etc, almost pointless. Why waste money and a buy, not to mention try to build a strategy around making a specific card more powerful, if your opponent can just always end his turn making sure you can't get any benefit from it?
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2016, 03:47:14 pm »
+1

I don't like the ability to move other player's tokens... it feels like it makes Lost Arts, Pathfinding, etc, almost pointless. Why waste money and a buy, not to mention try to build a strategy around making a specific card more powerful, if your opponent can just always end his turn making sure you can't get any benefit from it?

I agree. If the other players could choose, that would be something else, and still balanced, i think.

tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2016, 12:31:41 am »
+1

I don't like the Event. Even a version in which the other players could choose would be dubious as it would just be a to and fro. I put the +1 Card token on my most numerous pile, the other players will do the same and so on. Either it is too cheap, i.e. if the other player doesn't undo it, or it is too strong, if both players spend coins again and again. Probably it would just incentivze both folks to mirror which happens with Pathfinding often anyway.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2016, 08:37:18 am »
0

So, the original intention was for a kind of mirror game, like Obelisk creates. I know a lot of people hate those, but I for one like them because they seem to require more skill. Being cajoled into a strategy, and trying to make the best of it seems fun too me, but I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I think the problem with the event itself, is that it's too cheap. might be more appropriate. Also, there is some element of changing your strategy with this. If you played normally then it would be annoying, yes. But if you take it into consideration, investing into piles your opponents have, so they don't suddenly have 10 Lab-Moats, the event becomes better.

Maybe the reason why it seemed good is because the three of us aren't pros. If we were playing better and being more strategical we might have found that the best idea was to ricochet it back.

Now, if the event doesn't work out, which is very possible, there is a chance that it will come back later. There's definitely room for it in the next expansion which is on the table for the future. I have some ideas for it there, that use the new mechanics to solve it's problems.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2016, 08:44:22 am »
+1



Surprise! My fan cards were graciously added to the set later in the development. You may recall some from my earlier thread, albeit much more lame. I'm happy to announce that the cards have been remade for the most part. 2 were scrapped, and the rest went under changes.

Market day is a card along the lines of Travelling Fair, but without the top-decking. It's main utility is getting you loads of buys cheap. It's a fairly niche card, probably only bought in about 1/2 the games it's in. But when you need loads of copper fast for gardens, or when fortune gives you more money then you know what to do with, it's a powerful card-shaped thingy.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2016, 12:37:10 am »
+1

Basic vanilla resource conversion. I like it.
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2016, 04:41:35 am »
+3

Meh. I think there's a good reason that Travelling Fair costs $2 and not $1.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2016, 06:35:57 am »
+1

Meh. I think there's a good reason that Travelling Fair costs $2 and not $1.
Yep, topdecking.
If you only need one extra buy Market Day is worse than Travelling Fair. A huge amount of extra buys is only useful for pile rushing, acquiring many cheap cards and stuff like Peddler.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2016, 07:16:32 am »
+1


Now for a weird one. Not much to say, other than at first blush it seems OP but it's really not. The lack of draw is a biggie, port is roughly the same power level.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2016, 07:54:22 am »
+1

Combo's well with diadem
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2016, 10:41:36 am »
+1

I'm not sure what i think of Scenic Village. It's odd indead, but i can't give a good reason as to why it should be bad - the tracking, maybe, but 10 is an easy to add number at least. Also, a misspelling slipped in.

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2016, 10:53:31 am »
+1

How many of these relative to village would you want in the first game
Engine?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2016, 11:27:04 am »
0

I'm not sure what i think of Scenic Village. It's odd indead, but i can't give a good reason as to why it should be bad - the tracking, maybe, but 10 is an easy to add number at least. Also, a misspelling slipped in.
Curse you, GIMP lack of spellcheck. Actually the tracking is easier than you would expect, +10 is a nice round number.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2016, 11:30:33 am »
+1

Some secret history: I actually proposed a kind of action creator like storyteller, but Theta was having none of it.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2016, 12:34:11 am »
+2

Now for a weird one. Not much to say, other than at first blush it seems OP but it's really not. The lack of draw is a biggie, port is roughly the same power level.
The reason it is not overpowered is that even if it provided 100 actions you'd still need several of them. I even think that it might be too weak for 4$.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2016, 08:04:23 am »
0

Now for a weird one. Not much to say, other than at first blush it seems OP but it's really not. The lack of draw is a biggie, port is roughly the same power level.
The reason it is not overpowered is that even if it provided 100 actions you'd still need several of them. I even think that it might be too weak for 4$.
In the current version that's a possibility. Originally it gave unlimited actions, but it was simplifed to this. Adrian wanted an action storyteller, but as he said I wanted to keep this. I priced it at 4 because it seemed better than village, and about the same power level as port.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2016, 08:30:51 am »
+2


Were still previewing the more Beta+ cards, be tuned in a week or so for a lot of alpha cards, plenty of juicy criticism for those I'm sure.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2016, 09:47:15 am »
+1

Valley is literally game warping, manuscript doesn't throne duration cards because it anti-selfsynergizes and tracking was hard. Strongholf is fairly normal.
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2016, 12:55:44 pm »
+1

I'd just make Scenic Village have the same clause as Champion. You won't often play 10+ terminals, but in the oddball game where you do, tracking will be messy.

I like Valley. Not sure if it's correctly priced, but it's a cool card in that it should be quite hard to time when to go for it.

Manuscript is okay-ish, I guess? I'm not particularly excited about another Throne Room variant. Royal Carriage does everthing this wants to do and more.

Stronghold is far more boring than Valley. It is still an okay card, and I wonder if you could pull off a Stronghold-Gardens slog.

I'm not sure how the names of the durations relate to their effect.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2016, 01:07:01 pm »
0

I'd just make Scenic Village have the same clause as Champion. You won't often play 10+ terminals, but in the oddball game where you do, tracking will be messy.

I like Valley. Not sure if it's correctly priced, but it's a cool card in that it should be quite hard to time when to go for it.

Manuscript is okay-ish, I guess? I'm not particularly excited about another Throne Room variant. Royal Carriage does everthing this wants to do and more.

Stronghold is far more boring than Valley. It is still an okay card, and I wonder if you could pull off a Stronghold-Gardens slog.

I'm not sure how the names of the durations relate to their effect.
Scenic village got changed for simplicity, a slight nerf, and so it actually stacked. Yes tracking can be a pain, but it's still about the same as without it.

Manuscript is more boringer, but they can't all be the most intesting card ever.

Stronghold is mainly meant as a non-seasons friendly variant of Trade Port.

The art and names are picked (Mostly) unccorolated to their effects.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2016, 05:33:21 pm »
+1

I like valley, but it seems a bit too similar to treasury. Granted, you have to have the victory cards already, but it's still a semi-permanent peddler dependant on victory cards.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2016, 05:38:03 pm »
+1

But it allows for far more vpcard purchases, which is interesting.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2016, 07:09:46 pm »
0

I like valley, but it seems a bit too similar to treasury. Granted, you have to have the victory cards already, but it's still a semi-permanent peddler dependant on victory cards.
Except its dependent the other way, so it's almost the opposite.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2016, 10:56:00 am »
+1

I like valley, but it seems a bit too similar to treasury. Granted, you have to have the victory cards already, but it's still a semi-permanent peddler dependant on victory cards.
Huh? Treasury makes you green later whereas Valley makes you green earlier.
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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2016, 12:18:40 pm »
+2

Stronghold is much more like Treasury than Valley. But I think having both Stronghold and Valley in the same expansion is overkill. Sure there are differences in how they play out, but they're still used much the same, and that card could be something more interesting.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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