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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #200 on: November 06, 2016, 05:53:58 pm »
0

I've seen the Foreign Market a lot, and I'll probably use that for the next rendition.

The first one is good but a little bit not my prefferd style, same with 2 and 4. 5 is good but not markety enough.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #201 on: November 16, 2016, 09:44:18 am »
0

Version 1.2 is out!
General Changes:
-Listed the creator like I do with all of my cards. It's either me or Adrian, and I listed (Modded) if I felt I had changed one of Adrian's cards a signficant amount.
-I added 4 new cards and made a few outtakes.


Significant Changes:

Back to unlimited actions.

Similar to Asper's parilment. It's one heck of a setup effect and even if you never buy it it makes games really interesting.

Originally meant for Innovation, I moved it here so I could focus more on the new mechaninchs for innovation. Anyways, this is a cool one. It's meant to exchange things, if you don't wan't a card you can can get a free +2 Cards instead. It comes with a small workshop ability so it's not that dead.

Cavalry got a significant change, it now gives out instead of discarding. As I said before I didn't like how you both had to discard. Now you can give out , but you'll have to part with a lot of your hand. Maybe too good now? I dropped the draw-to-x to make it simpler.

A simpler version of a really old concept.

Manuscripts now lets you choose which Action to throne next turn. The discarding from play isn't the most desirous way to do it, but it's simple and it has no effect once you've discarded it so it's nice to track.

Cottage is also new. It's the hamlet! Originally it let you play a treasure then spend , but this is simpler. I tenatively put it at because it seemed better then hamlet, but who knows.

Observatory now discards the cards. It's shorter and better.

I completly overhalled River. It had grown way to complex as more and more had to be added. Now it's simple. You draw 2 cards, get an extra random bonus, and can play a bunch of Ruins for free if your deck if full of them.

I didn't add the gaining to hand still for simplicity, but I swapped the Copper and Curse gaining. Now you need at least 2 to actually do any cursing.

Overseer is the new philosophers. Now I like the theme with Steward and the art similarity to Pawn.

Yes, it's crazy. Even if you never buy it with it's cost of it still will start your deck off with more junk, and it will start with some of the Estates drained. It's definently a good 3 pile card.

In memory of Asper. And because I felt like Civ could use a .

Decay I thought would be better giving as you can't pay it off. I also moved the +2 Buys in the Once per turn: to prevent unlimited buys.

(Hopefully) the final art change!

It's a little cheaper at now.
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #202 on: November 16, 2016, 05:31:37 pm »
+1

Thanks for making (& improving) finished versions of all these cards. I plan to print many of them out for my own use.

Here are a few suggested corrections of typos and inconsistencies:
  • Anvil – Last line of text should read “…back onto your deck in any order.”
  • Bounty – Remove “When you play this,” since every card has an implicit “When you play this”
  • Celebration – You might want to replace the last sentence with “You may trash this. If you do, play this again.”  (Urchin uses this wording).
  • Coins – Remove “When you play this,”
  • Gallery – I would add a bit more space before and after the <5> debt symbol.
  • Progress – Might change “If nobody revealed…” to “If no one revealed…” (Compare with wording of Tournament)
  • Settlement – Add space between the first VP icon and the word “if”
  • Trading Vessle – The correct spelling is Vessel
  • Cavalry – Add space between “takes” and <1> debt symbol
  • Siege – Add space between [1] coin symbol and “if”
  • Manuscripts – Remove the extra space character between “Action” and “from” on first line.
  • Cottage – Add space before and after first <1> debt symbol
  • Dusk Village – There should be three period characters after “If this is the” (to make an ellipsis)
  • Decay – Add space between “take” and <4> debt symbol
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 05:33:39 pm by Thanar »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #203 on: November 16, 2016, 05:40:40 pm »
0

Thanks for making (& improving) finished versions of all these cards. I plan to print many of them out for my own use.

Here are a few suggested corrections of typos and inconsistencies:
  • Anvil – Last line of text should read “…back onto your deck in any order.”
  • Bounty – Remove “When you play this,” since every card has an implicit “When you play this”
  • Celebration – You might want to replace the last sentence with “You may trash this. If you do, play this again.”  (Urchin uses this wording).
  • Coins – Remove “When you play this,”
  • Gallery – I would add a bit more space before and after the <5> debt symbol.
  • Progress – Might change “If nobody revealed…” to “If no one revealed…” (Compare with wording of Tournament)
  • Settlement – Add space between the first VP icon and the word “if”
  • Trading Vessle – The correct spelling is Vessel
  • Cavalry – Add space between “takes” and <1> debt symbol
  • Siege – Add space between [1] coin symbol and “if”
  • Manuscripts – Remove the extra space character between “Action” and “from” on first line.
  • Cottage – Add space before and after first <1> debt symbol
  • Dusk Village – There should be three period characters after “If this is the” (to make an ellipsis)
  • Decay – Add space between “take” and <4> debt symbol
Anvil, that's a typo I'll fix it
Celebration, I'll keep it as-is until I see the new Urchin.
Dusk Village, yes you're right.
Trading Vessel, typo sorry.
Progress, will do.
Manuscripts, will do.
Coins and Bounty, Nope! See Charm and basically all kingdon Treasures.
Everything esle, I'll try to add some space but it's not that high on my list as of now.

Please share your playtesting!
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #204 on: November 16, 2016, 05:56:03 pm »
+1

Ah, I never noticed that special treasures all use "When you play this". Good to know.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #205 on: November 16, 2016, 06:10:28 pm »
+2

Version 1.2 is out!

Just going to list some cards that I have problems with.

Anvil - Seems stronger than catacombs however this should be fine since catacombs as a on trash effect, however I still think Anvil is way stronger.

Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.

Miner - Why does this card use the term flash instead of reveal?

Settlement - Seems way better than distant lands I know it costs 1 more but still.

Robber - Seems weak you only net 3 cards for a 5 cost while hurting everybody, including yourself.

Establishment - Cycling victory cards for +1 card +1 coin seems to strong for 4 since it lasts forever. Also this card is missing "If you do"

Scenic Village - I would leave the unlimited action effect to champion, not sure if this card is balanced for a 4 cost seems strong.

Royal Chambers - Seems really strong depending on the kingdom, the downside does not really matter since it's uncommon to buy some of each action in most kingdoms.

Bookkeeper - Seems too dependent on other cards in the kingdom.

Cottage - Seems way too weak, Worker's village only costs 1 more. random suggestion: +1 card +2 actions, You may take 1 debt for +1 Card. Cost 4.

I can't really common on any of the event cards since I don't play with events often.

Favorites: Manuscripts, River, Bounty, and Progress.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 06:12:13 pm by loneXolf »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #206 on: November 16, 2016, 06:22:23 pm »
0

Just going to list some cards that I have problems with.
Thanks!
Quote
Anvil - Seems stronger than catacombs however this should be fine since catacombs as a on trash effect, however I still think Anvil is way stronger.
Maybe. Between no on-trash and you can't chain them it seems about the same.
Quote
Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Yes, but for a peddler is bad enough to counteract it. for 5 is not that good, even though you get a peddler.
Quote
Miner - Why does this card use the term flash instead of reveal?
So people have to reveal cards not knowing wether somebody else will reveal a copy of it. Maybe a bit too meta, but it's better.
Quote
Settlement - Seems way better than distant lands I know it costs 1 more but still.
Maybe. It's probably one of the least balanced here.
Quote
Robber - Seems weak you only net 3 cards for a 5 cost while hurting everybody, including yourself.
It's a hunting grounds then a smithy. It's not a power but it's certianly too good for .
Quote
Establishment - Cycling victory cards for +1 card +1 coin seems to strong for 4 since it lasts forever. Also this card is missing "If you do"
It turns your Victory cards into peddlers, but only one. It might be good for , but probably not bad enough to change. Do X for Y is new wording.
Quote
Scenic Village - I would leave the unlimited action effect to champion, not sure if this card is balanced for a 4 cost seems strong.
If you hate Champion already this won't change that for you, but it's balanced and definently not OP.
Quote
Royal Chambers - Seems really strong depending on the kingdom, the downside does not really matter since it's uncommon to buy some of each action in most kingdoms.
Yeah, but that's essentially all cards. Weak sometimes, strong other times.
Quote
Bookkeeper - Seems too dependent on other cards in the kingdom.
Dependent, yes, but too dependent?
Quote
Cottage - Seems way too weak, Worker's village only costs 1 more. random suggestion: +1 card +2 actions, You may take 1 debt for +1 Card. Cost 4.
If anything I'd lower it to .
Quote
Favorites: Manuscripts, River, Bounty, and Progress.
Nice!
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #207 on: November 16, 2016, 06:35:24 pm »
+1

Great work. I'll post some of my views tomorrow. :)
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #208 on: November 16, 2016, 07:32:58 pm »
+1

Quote
Quote
Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Yes, but for a peddler is bad enough to counteract it. for 5 is not that good, even though you get a peddler.

Quote
Scenic Village - I would leave the unlimited action effect to champion, not sure if this card is balanced for a 4 cost seems strong.
If you hate Champion already this won't change that for you, but it's balanced and definently not OP.
Quote
Royal Chambers - Seems really strong depending on the kingdom, the downside does not really matter since it's uncommon to buy some of each action in most kingdoms.
Yeah, but that's essentially all cards. Weak sometimes, strong other times.
Quote
Bookkeeper - Seems too dependent on other cards in the kingdom.
Dependent, yes, but too dependent?

Gallery - I know the peddler(Around 4 to 4.5 value) is over costed, however 2 coins does not seem to hurt the ratio by that much. Since 7 coins for 5 vp tokens is a good deal generally and that's not even including debt is easier to work around then static coin costs.

Scenic Village - I don't dislike champion, my note is mostly trying to explain I don't have a good read on this card.

Royal Chambers - Let me explain further, this card is simply is any card in your discard pile that costs 4 or less twice. there are three reasons find this card strong: 1. No card in the game lets you hand pick cards from your deck or graveyard and places them into your hand. 2. This card seems stronger than Throne Room since Throne Room has to target cards from hand while Royal Chamber uses the discard pile. (I know only being able to target cards the discard pile has it's only weaknesses but this gives +1 net card and more selection most of the time) 3. The 4 or less cost requirement for royal chamber's target is really manageable since if you buy Royal chambers you had probably built your deck to complement it. Also To reply to your comment "Yeah, but that's essentially all cards. Weak sometimes, strong other times." This card seems to be build your deck around it, or don't buy a single copy.

Bookkeeper - Making a card viable in various kingdoms while balanced is part of good design choice in my mind. I said "Seems too dependent on other cards in the kingdom.", since you pretty much put two situational effects together. The workshop effect is good in kingdoms with good 2 or 3 costs you want a lot of, or in a kingdom where you want to spam silver. While the reaction effect is good in kingdoms with +buys and junker attacks. You will not find a kingdom in where you would want both effects often.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 07:42:36 pm by loneXolf »
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mail-mi

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #209 on: November 16, 2016, 10:40:11 pm »
+1

Question: how does scenic village effect your action count? If I play an action, does it cost me 1 action? How do I know how many actions I have at the end of my turn? This matters for Diadem.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #210 on: November 16, 2016, 10:46:18 pm »
+1

Question: how does scenic village effect your action count? If I play an action, does it cost me 1 action? How do I know how many actions I have at the end of my turn? This matters for Diadem.

I assume you will have zero actions left if you just played scenic village during a turn since it just lets you play a unlimited amount of actions and it does not state +infinite actions.

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #211 on: November 16, 2016, 10:51:09 pm »
+1

Question: how does scenic village effect your action count? If I play an action, does it cost me 1 action? How do I know how many actions I have at the end of my turn? This matters for Diadem.

I assume you will have zero actions left if you just played scenic village during a turn since it just lets you play a unlimited amount of actions and it does not state +infinite actions.

But what if I play scenic village, then village, then smithy? How many actions do I have, 1, 2, or infinite?
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #212 on: November 16, 2016, 10:56:58 pm »
+1

Question: how does scenic village effect your action count? If I play an action, does it cost me 1 action? How do I know how many actions I have at the end of my turn? This matters for Diadem.

I assume you will have zero actions left if you just played scenic village during a turn since it just lets you play a unlimited amount of actions and it does not state +infinite actions.

But what if I play scenic village, then village, then smithy? How many actions do I have, 1, 2, or infinite?

I would assume 2 actions left.

tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #213 on: November 17, 2016, 03:47:36 am »
+1

Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Ehm, that's not how the card works. It is rather something like "do I wanna buy a Peddler and 4 VPs for 6 Coins and 4 Debt?".
I have a hard time judging the strength of Gallery but I feel safe in claiming that in Kingdoms with extra buys you will rarely spend a huge amount for a Peddler and some VPs but instead rather buy 2 or 3 cards.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #214 on: November 17, 2016, 07:00:00 am »
+1

Scienic Village: The best comparison here is Sauna and Avanto. They both let you play actions, but neiteher takes an action. Scienic village behaves like that. When you play it you get -1 Action, so you might be at 0 actions, just as if you'd played an Avanto. Now you can play any number of Actions, like you can play actions with Sauna, at no action cost.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #215 on: November 17, 2016, 07:22:21 am »
+1

Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Ehm, that's not how the card works. It is rather something like "do I wanna buy a Peddler and 4 VPs for 6 Coins and 4 Debt?".
I have a hard time judging the strength of Gallery but I feel safe in claiming that in Kingdoms with extra buys you will rarely spend a huge amount for a Peddler and some VPs but instead rather buy 2 or 3 cards.

You didn't see this post I assume
Quote
Gallery - I know the peddler(Around 4 to 4.5 value) is over costed, however 2 coins does not seem to hurt the ratio by that much. Since 7 coins for 5 vp tokens is a good deal generally and that's not even including debt is easier to work around then static coin costs.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 07:23:34 am by loneXolf »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #216 on: November 17, 2016, 07:29:46 am »
0

Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Ehm, that's not how the card works. It is rather something like "do I wanna buy a Peddler and 4 VPs for 6 Coins and 4 Debt?".
I have a hard time judging the strength of Gallery but I feel safe in claiming that in Kingdoms with extra buys you will rarely spend a huge amount for a Peddler and some VPs but instead rather buy 2 or 3 cards.

You didn't see this post I assume
Quote
Gallery - I know the peddler(Around 4 to 4.5 value) is over costed, however 2 coins does not seem to hurt the ratio by that much. Since 7 coins for 5 vp tokens is a good deal generally and that's not even including debt is easier to work around then static coin costs.
Yeah, but is also harder to hit than . You don't need to just have and maybe some leftover for the , you need and maybe you sacrifce most of your next turn.
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tristan

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #217 on: November 17, 2016, 07:36:09 am »
+1

Gallery - Debt for victory points in a ratio of 1 for 1 seems too good.
Ehm, that's not how the card works. It is rather something like "do I wanna buy a Peddler and 4 VPs for 6 Coins and 4 Debt?".
I have a hard time judging the strength of Gallery but I feel safe in claiming that in Kingdoms with extra buys you will rarely spend a huge amount for a Peddler and some VPs but instead rather buy 2 or 3 cards.

You didn't see this post I assume
Quote
Gallery - I know the peddler(Around 4 to 4.5 value) is over costed, however 2 coins does not seem to hurt the ratio by that much. Since 7 coins for 5 vp tokens is a good deal generally and that's not even including debt is easier to work around then static coin costs.
I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #218 on: November 17, 2016, 08:22:38 am »
+1

Quote
I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.

I see this card mostly being as a victory point card, you just compared it to gold and engine/combo prices. If you wanted to gain vp with 11 coins and 2 buys you could buy a duchy and a gallery for 8 vp with 5 vp not being a dead card. Also this card seems useful to get instead of province in non trasher games since the provinces will clog up your deck.

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #219 on: November 17, 2016, 08:27:48 am »
0

Quote
I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.

I see this card mostly being as a victory point card, you just compared it to gold and engine/combo prices. If you wanted to gain vp with 11 coins and 2 buys you could buy a duchy and a gallery for 8 vp with 5 vp not being a dead card. Also this card seems useful to get instead of province in non trasher games since the provinces will clog up your deck.
The purpose of the card is to add to your deck while you are still building, like Emporium. Yes, you might by it over provinces a lot, but it won't end the game and in the end you're not getting the same , and you're paying a lot more. If you subtract the for the pedder, it's ofr 5, which seems fair. All we're doing is adding a peddler to it to make it more interesting and at it's harder to pick up.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #220 on: November 17, 2016, 08:30:02 am »
0

Question: how does scenic village effect your action count? If I play an action, does it cost me 1 action? How do I know how many actions I have at the end of my turn? This matters for Diadem.

I assume you will have zero actions left if you just played scenic village during a turn since it just lets you play a unlimited amount of actions and it does not state +infinite actions.

But what if I play scenic village, then village, then smithy? How many actions do I have, 1, 2, or infinite?
1: You play scenic village, 0 actions
2: You play village, which spends an action but can't, the gives you 2 putting you at 2 actions.
3: You play smithy, spending an Action, giving you 1 action left for Diadem.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #221 on: November 17, 2016, 08:31:30 am »
+1

Quote
I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.

I see this card mostly being as a victory point card, you just compared it to gold and engine/combo prices. If you wanted to gain vp with 11 coins and 2 buys you could buy a duchy and a gallery for 8 vp with 5 vp not being a dead card. Also this card seems useful to get instead of province in non trasher games since the provinces will clog up your deck.
The purpose of the card is to add to your deck while you are still building, like Emporium. Yes, you might by it over provinces a lot, but it won't end the game and in the end you're not getting the same , and you're paying a lot more. If you subtract the for the pedder, it's ofr 5, which seems fair. All we're doing is adding a peddler to it to make it more interesting and at it's harder to pick up.

I still think 2 coins/5 debt is slightly too good for 5 vp tokens. :3.

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #222 on: November 17, 2016, 08:34:47 am »
0

Quote
I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.

I see this card mostly being as a victory point card, you just compared it to gold and engine/combo prices. If you wanted to gain vp with 11 coins and 2 buys you could buy a duchy and a gallery for 8 vp with 5 vp not being a dead card. Also this card seems useful to get instead of province in non trasher games since the provinces will clog up your deck.
The purpose of the card is to add to your deck while you are still building, like Emporium. Yes, you might by it over provinces a lot, but it won't end the game and in the end you're not getting the same , and you're paying a lot more. If you subtract the for the pedder, it's ofr 5, which seems fair. All we're doing is adding a peddler to it to make it more interesting and at it's harder to pick up.

I still think 2 coins/5 debt is slightly too good for 5 vp tokens. :3.
Like, the face value, or the fact that it's too easy to pick up?
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #223 on: November 17, 2016, 08:37:13 am »
+1

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I did and totally disagree with it as Gallery is simply not 7$ -> 5 VPs but 6 Coins and 5 Debt for a Peddler and 5 VPs. That Peddler will not be particularly useful in any way for your deck so in the presence of extra buys you will most likely rather buy two 5s or a 5 and Gold or whatever.

I see this card mostly being as a victory point card, you just compared it to gold and engine/combo prices. If you wanted to gain vp with 11 coins and 2 buys you could buy a duchy and a gallery for 8 vp with 5 vp not being a dead card. Also this card seems useful to get instead of province in non trasher games since the provinces will clog up your deck.
The purpose of the card is to add to your deck while you are still building, like Emporium. Yes, you might by it over provinces a lot, but it won't end the game and in the end you're not getting the same , and you're paying a lot more. If you subtract the for the pedder, it's ofr 5, which seems fair. All we're doing is adding a peddler to it to make it more interesting and at it's harder to pick up.

I still think 2 coins/5 debt is slightly too good for 5 vp tokens. :3.
Like, the face value, or the fact that it's too easy to pick up?

Face value, however making it harder to get fixes it. Reasoning: "why buy a province early game when you can get this" Forcing the player to buy a 4 costed peddler is not really a big downside. In my mind 5 vp tokens on it's own is worth at least 8 coins.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 08:40:09 am by loneXolf »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« Reply #224 on: November 17, 2016, 08:40:46 am »
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The point of it being a peddler is to synergize with the bottom part, it increases the your deck produces and doesn't hurt because it's a cantrip, so you can handle the easier.

If we assume for now it's too good, how would you propose nefing it? Costing it at to compete more with province? Capping the / at 4?
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