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[JThorne]

Had a miserably bad shuffle luck game last night...until I thought about it some more.

Border Village, Forum, Capital, Smithy, Ranger, Mining Village, Quarry, Chapel, Miser, Overlord.

4P, IRL. The obvious play in my estimation was opening Quarry, Chapel and using QCCC to buy Border Village/Smithy pairs (or even a Border Village/Forum once or twice.)

My first post-shuffle hand was EEEQC. Argh! I couldn't even get a Forum! I mean, I'm a disciplined enough player to trash four coppers with the following hand of Chapel/CCCC, but still. Infuriating. Unfortunately, I made another blunder. Since I knew the plan, as above, I knew I would have some extra terminal space and purchased a Smithy with my QC.

I drew Smithy/Chapel together in the next three shuffles, never once hitting the QCCC I needed to have the deck start doing anything even remotely useful. In a four-player game, I ended up with ONE BV.

I kept cursing my shuffle luck, but on reflection, perhaps I should have bought Mining Village on QC, because it couldn't possibly hurt. Playing that Terminal Smithy and drawing Estates I couldn't trash (and not the QCCC) just murdered my game.

I'm beginning to think that in Chapel games, you should be carefully considering buys by thinking about both the best thing and worst thing that can possibly happen on the next shuffle.

[Chris is me]

Yeah, I think Mining Village on QC would have been the much better play, especially because you can blow it up later.

I also think pairs of Rangers would have been better than Smithies for the engine, mainly because of the +Buys. Maybe two Rangers and the rest of your draw can be Smithy? But that's a minor thing.

You absolutely should be thinking about all of the different cases with Chapel shuffle luck, mostly because they are fairly predictable after your first trash.

[Roadrunner7671]

There are no winners in a 4 player irl game

[Jasoba]

Thats why I open spy/chapel in base game instead of sliver/chapel.

Best: Good trash and you mill opponents chapel.
Worst: you draw spy in the 4 turn and see chapel as your last card.

Well im still not convinced its the optimal play, but I really like to have so much control over the "thrashing phase"

[Dingan]

Thats why I open spy/chapel in base game instead of sliver/chapel.

Best: Good trash and you mill opponents chapel.
Worst: you draw spy in the 4 turn and see chapel as your last card.

Well im still not convinced its the optimal play, but I really like to have so much control over the "thrashing phase"

Fyi, according to this site, Chapel/Silver is better than Chapel/Spy (edge cases, depends on the board, blah blah blah don't care).