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[schadd]

"and just for showing up, you all get two coppers! i know you're all thinking, what's this guy getting out of it?

the informal admission that cache kinda sucks. gain a gold is, at best, as good as gain a card costing up to $5, and a somewhat significant part of that value is that the gold can be remodeled to province, which cache can't. this of course turbocharges that whole travelling fair/counting house thing, and anything for which coppers are better than nothing (banquet/duke is tres bien). i would imagine somewhat limited use for this early in engines, considering that borrow isn't always used to get $5s and the drawback for banquet seems to me to be a lot worse. i mean, imagine using it to pick up junk dealer; it doesn't break even in trashing until you play it twice, and some other thing for $3 is probably better than that. that said, if trashing is cheaper than cashing at some point, this could discount some stuff.


-is this the one slog card that empires has? or is it a truly enginorious expansion? or is the slog stuff hiding in the landmarks maybe
-what makes this worth opening with? mountebank, witch, cultist, junk dealer all seem to have the opposite of their desired effect if you banquet them
-is the ideal use for this after trashing, then?

[mail-mi]

Banquet/Tomb/watchtower. The trash pile was at least an inch and a half tall.

[Chris is me]

Opening double Banquet, picking Count each time, might be the strongest Duke / Duchy opening I can think of. Other than Duke and, like, games where Spice Meechant is your source of +Buy, I'm not sure if this has a lot of value. Like maybe there are certain boards where you really HAVE TO open a $5 and Remake and you're willing to make your next shuffle kind of suck in order to do that, idk

On Donate boards, go ahead and spam this like three or four times in the first few turns to load up on power $5s and then just nuke everything.

I could see this having value in like a multiplayer game where everyone has had their decks demolished by junking attacks and you just want to buy something to keep the game open that isn't another fucking Silver

[jomini]

While Wt is the obvious combo, I think more generally Banquet is highly useful for engines built off strong trashing and decent draw. Say you build your engine off of Remake. At some point in the game you will likely have a dead Remake. For the low price of 1 action and 2 draw you can nab a $5 for only $3 and trash out the stuff you do not like. With Chapel and overdraw, you can snag $10 worth of cards for 1 action and 4 draw. It can also play well with a lot of alt-VP.

I think it may be a completely viable strategy to go for Banquet/Copper/+buy & +coin or +draw with Tower out. You need 30 Banquets to gain the copper supply. 1 per turn is trivial and most things (even something like Pawn) that can be worth $2/+buy can get you up to at least 1.5 Banquets per turn (and even if you cannot hit $6, you can gain 3 coppers). 60 VP is just an insane amount of VP so I will be curious to see if Banquet/Tower plays as strongly as I hope

[JW]

While Wt is the obvious combo, I think more generally Banquet is highly useful for engines built off strong trashing and decent draw. Say you build your engine off of Remake. At some point in the game you will likely have a dead Remake. For the low price of 1 action and 2 draw you can nab a $5 for only $3 and trash out the stuff you do not like. With Chapel and overdraw, you can snag $10 worth of cards for 1 action and 4 draw. It can also play well with a lot of alt-VP.

Trash-for-benefit combos with Banquet better than Chapel or Remake (barring Poor House bonanzas/cost reduction). Mercenary or trashers that give +Buy, particularly if they're the only +Buy available (Forager, etc.) come to mind. Like a better Cache.

[tailred]

Imagine banqueting a cache with trader in hand when silver is good. Delicious.

[jomini]

While Wt is the obvious combo, I think more generally Banquet is highly useful for engines built off strong trashing and decent draw. Say you build your engine off of Remake. At some point in the game you will likely have a dead Remake. For the low price of 1 action and 2 draw you can nab a $5 for only $3 and trash out the stuff you do not like. With Chapel and overdraw, you can snag $10 worth of cards for 1 action and 4 draw. It can also play well with a lot of alt-VP.

Trash-for-benefit combos with Banquet better than Chapel or Remake (barring Poor House bonanzas/cost reduction). Mercenary or trashers that give +Buy, particularly if they're the only +Buy available (Forager, etc.) come to mind. Like a better Cache.

That is only true if your TfB does not scale with cost. Remodel is useful only if you want some $2, Mine is exceptionally marginal, and Bishop would pretty much wish to trash anything else. Other cards, like Transmogrify are even worse for copper.

Even beyond that, playing a low end TfB (say something like Sacrifice), you run into the trouble that you need a second TfB to deal with the influx of cards or run behind. If your TfB is terminal, then you either have to go with non-terminal payload (e.g. Market/Bazzar/Cfeit/Hwy) & draw (Lab, Hparty, etc.) or you will really need to hammer the village pile if you plan to do this often.

In general, I think using Banquet in trashing engines will be a decent tactic. Holding out for TfB is likely a decent bit of overkill.

I think Cache/Banquet/Tower would be more fun, particularly with any $2 +buy (like Pawn). 40 copper gone in 10 turns, easy, and decent odds of getting the rest in just 5 more turns. If you want real craziness Tfair/Cache/Banquet/Tower.
Imagine banqueting a cache with trader in hand when silver is good. Delicious.

[Seprix]

Hey, use a Banquet to gain a Cache!

[JThorne]

You can sometimes afford to buy power $5s that instantly negate the cycling drawback. Archive/Forum/Embassy/Catacombs/Rabble all dig at least three cards deeper in the deck, which means using Banquet doesn't slow your cycling. It also doesn't speed it up. The presence of a mass trasher is key if you're going to hit Banquet hard early in order to contest a pile (Chapel/Forge/Count.)

Yesterday I opened Banquet-Archive, Banquet-Archive, and on the first shuffle I had a virtually guaranteed 5-copper hand among the hands coming, meaning that I could buy at least one more as well as Banquetting another. My second shuffle, I had been able to purchase a Forge with a seven-copper hand. Those coppers didn't stick around long, and the Archives helped the Forge line up with the junk.

I would be much more skeptical of using Banquet to gain non-drawing, non-sifting $5s like Market, Butcher or even Junk Dealer. Seems like asking for trouble.

This is another one of those areas where running simulators to figure out if Banquet speeds you up or slows you down compared to the typical pattern of trashing down while buying Silver to afford $5s.

[ipofanes]

I had fun over the holidays in a Gardens game Banqueting a Gardener Groundskeeper for three, get a straight Garden for four and an Estate for two.

[sorawotobu]

I had fun over the holidays in a Gardens game Banqueting a Gardener for three, get a straight Garden for four and an Estate for two.

Then you were cheating, Banquet doesn't gain Victory cards.

[Donald X.]

I had fun over the holidays in a Gardens game Banqueting a Gardener for three, get a straight Garden for four and an Estate for two.

Then you were cheating, Banquet doesn't gain Victory cards.

Gardener isn't a Victory card - it's not a card at all. I suspect that's supposed to be Groundskeeper.

[ipofanes]

Gardener isn't a Victory card - it's not a card at all. I suspect that's supposed to be Groundskeeper.

Indeed, was "Gärtner" in German, didn't check the quote.

[sorawotobu]

My bad, I assumed "Gardener" was just a typo given the specification "straight Garden for four", which makes it sound like you were also gaining Gardens in some other way than buying them directly.