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Author Topic: Scripting Dominion  (Read 9253 times)

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Polk5440

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2016, 03:13:09 pm »
0

What's your favorite RNG? With a name like Shuffle iT I suspect you think about that a lot.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2016, 03:26:15 pm »
+2

I'm not playing unless they use quasirandom low-discrepancy sequences.
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SCSN

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2016, 04:28:22 pm »
+13

What's your favorite RNG? With a name like Shuffle iT I suspect you think about that a lot.

We started out with RANDU but soon discovered that pseudorandom number generators were fundamentally lacking, so we employed a physicist to measure the decay time of radioactive nuclei. If you ever find your game hanging when you shuffle, it's likely that this guy has died and needs replacing.
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-Stef-

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2016, 06:08:12 pm »
+8

And when nothing else helps, PMs to Donald have been very helpful too. Unfortunately most of those questions had to be secret (2E) but I guess from here on I can ask them in de rules section of this forum again. The answers to those questions... I can imagine you'd want to add them to your document.

Yes, please! Anything not already public would be very appreciated. I'm in the process of updating my doc now. I haven't actually found anything confusing, the cards are pretty simple, but I'm sure there's something.

Well, here you go. I made an effort to extract the parts of these PMs that were 100% about Dominion rules.
(which just means I get to conceal all the dumb questions I asked and Donald was also willing to answer)

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
Suppose I gain a Villa and then lose track of it (topdecking with Watchtower) obviously the putting into hand will fail.
I assume though the +1 action and the returning-to-action-phase are still happening?
Yes. Lose-track never stops anything except moving a card.

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
My question was about buying two expeditions and then playing outpost (using Villa). Now does the outpost "make the number of cards to draw equal to 3" (usually turning a 5 into a 3, but in this case turning a 9 into a 3, and thus nullifying the expeditions) or do the expeditions still do their work? (i.e. outpost only affects the "regular" draw, and the extra draw is unaffected by outpost).
Outpost makes the default number drawn 3; Expedition adds to that. If you buy 2 Expeditions, buy Villa, play Outpost, you get 7 cards.

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
Slightly less likely to happen, but does the same thing apply to Pilgrimage?
Suppose I start by gaining a copy of Ill Gotten Gains, do I get to know if my opponent responds with Watchtower before making the other decisions for Pilgrimage?
Given the phrasing of Pilgrimage I am going to say that here you choose the cards first, then gain them in any order. If you picked a full 3 cards to gain, you would gain one before having to decide which of the other two to gain next; but you picked them all at once.

So then, you could pick to gain Mandarin and Gold, gain Mandarin first putting Gold on top, then gain the Gold.

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
I had to code some priority of setup rules, and I was just wondering if you ever thought about this / perhaps already wrote some rules down for it.

Defiled Shrine: Landmark
When you gain an Action, move 1 VP from its pile to this.
When you buy a Curse, take the VP from this.
Setup: Put 2 VP on each non-Gathering Action Supply pile.

Young Witch: Action Attack
+2 Cards
Discard 2 cards. Each other player may reveal a Bane card from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains a Curse.
Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing Coin2.png or Coin3.png to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Bane cards

I would prefer using common sense (which would come down to just do young witch first, or retroactively apply the defiled shrine if you happened to start with that one).
Another interpretation would be to resolve them in the order of drawing the randomizer cards (but that could lead to weird results with future cards, if you need some setup rule that affects all piles to actually affect all piles but it doesn't?)
Ideally everything happens.

The two things that add cards are Young Witch and Black Market. So deal out everything without accounting for those; then if either is out, resolve one, then if the other is now out, resolve that one (meaning, add the card for Young Witch, or determine the contents of the Black Market deck). Obv. Young Witch can add Black Market and the Black Market deck might have Young Witch in it. If they are both out then I think currently ordering between them doesn't matter.


Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
If a pile is double embargo'd and I have a haggler in play, do I have the option of resolving embargo-haggler-embargo?

i.e. does a double embargo'd pile spawn two gains of one curse each, or is it one gain of two curses?
Let's see. The new card phrasing is:

Embargo: Action, $2
+$2
Trash this. Add an Embargo token to a Supply pile. (For the rest of the game, when a player buys a card from that pile, they gain a Curse.)

And the new rulebook says: "This is cumulative; with three Embargo tokens on a pile, buying a card from that pile will give you three Curses."

Well it's a rule about the token, is how I would look at it in the most technical way. The card is pretending it isn't involved, it just places the token (because otherwise how do you make it cumulative the right way). The rulebook of course is not trying to cover every situation and be so clear as to be confusing, e.g. "buying a card from that pile will give you a Curse three times" would make people go "what huh."

Everywhere else in Dominion, these things are multiple triggers, and people must be used to that. Probably if it were one lump someone would eventually report it as a bug. Not for a long time, since it's a rare situation, but still. And they're separate no matter what for e.g. Trader. So let's go with, it's separate triggers, one per Curse.

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
My draw pile and discard are empty, my -1 card token is on there, I have 3 cards in hand and play Library (or watchtower).

Do I lose the -1 card token?
Yes. You lose the token when trying to draw a card, even if there weren't any. You don't make it as far as trying to draw the card; you instead lose the token. In the case of Library and Watchtower of course you then keep going. As you may have guessed, Library with 7 cards in hand would not remove the token.

However you only lose the -$1 token when making $1 or more $, not when making $0 (e.g. Harvest with an empty deck).

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
- If I Summon a Hireling, do I already get the extra card on my next turn?
You get the card.

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
Suppose you play a Rabble, and I reveal Copper, Estate, Duchy.
Do you get to know if I put the Estate or the Duchy on top?
Yes. They were revealed, and nothing ever said to conceal them. That would also apply to e.g. Oracle.

In practice no-one would show you irl, but there would have to be a general rule to fix that, and it would be a weird general rule. The card itself sure doesn't want to say, "then conceals them, then returns them in any order they choose."
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Jeebus

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2016, 08:27:49 pm »
0

Thanks! I thought you were talking about questions about the new 14 cards, that's why I said they were pretty simple. But I see that it's mostly about Adventures. I have all of these covered already, except for the one about Pilgrimage. Also I have the oppsite ruling for double Embargo + Haggler.

Jeebus

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2016, 08:36:22 pm »
+1

Quote from: Donald X.
Quote from: Stef
If a pile is double embargo'd and I have a haggler in play, do I have the option of resolving embargo-haggler-embargo?

i.e. does a double embargo'd pile spawn two gains of one curse each, or is it one gain of two curses?
Let's see. The new card phrasing is:

Embargo: Action, $2
+$2
Trash this. Add an Embargo token to a Supply pile. (For the rest of the game, when a player buys a card from that pile, they gain a Curse.)

And the new rulebook says: "This is cumulative; with three Embargo tokens on a pile, buying a card from that pile will give you three Curses."

Well it's a rule about the token, is how I would look at it in the most technical way. The card is pretending it isn't involved, it just places the token (because otherwise how do you make it cumulative the right way). The rulebook of course is not trying to cover every situation and be so clear as to be confusing, e.g. "buying a card from that pile will give you a Curse three times" would make people go "what huh."

Everywhere else in Dominion, these things are multiple triggers, and people must be used to that. Probably if it were one lump someone would eventually report it as a bug. Not for a long time, since it's a rare situation, but still. And they're separate no matter what for e.g. Trader. So let's go with, it's separate triggers, one per Curse.

This is the one I've had for some years as the opposite, based on this ruling.
Donald, can you confirm that each token is a separate trigger? Does that mean that new Embargo is functionally different from the old one? Or is it just a rulings reversal?

Donald X.

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2016, 11:57:19 pm »
+2

This is the one I've had for some years as the opposite, based on this ruling.
Donald, can you confirm that each token is a separate trigger? Does that mean that new Embargo is functionally different from the old one? Or is it just a rulings reversal?
The ruling you have is correct for the published Embargo (which says, "a Curse per Embargo token"). And there is no new Embargo wording yet. It seems like a bad precedent to answer rules questions about the new wording just because someone LEAKED it.

And I mean. If you want your rules document to be up-to-date, that would mean not including rulings for new wordings until there are actual new wordings.
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Jeebus

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Re: Scripting Dominion
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2016, 12:01:49 am »
0

The ruling you have is correct for the published Embargo (which says, "a Curse per Embargo token"). And there is no new Embargo wording yet. It seems like a bad precedent to answer rules questions about the new wording just because someone LEAKED it.

And I mean. If you want your rules document to be up-to-date, that would mean not including rulings for new wordings until there are actual new wordings.

Fair enough. I asked if it was a rulings reversal, and you said it isn't and that the old ruling applies to the current Embargo, so that's all I need to know. Thanks.
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