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Author Topic: empires: forum  (Read 4272 times)

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schadd

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empires: forum
« on: August 05, 2016, 03:56:00 am »
+3


and over there, you'll find the temple, the brothel, and the curia


  it's us! one might imagine that mr. v thought to himself at some point that he was reminded of this Web site at some point during development but my money is on, no, he totally didn't and only thought of it one time later, then forgot. i mean, it's totally not an interesting card. it's big thing is that it shouldn't be an imposition to buy (except jeez, it costs 5) and that it is never gonna be really beneficial or really deathly. it's nice with tunnel because sometimes you just get three golds and you're like, uh, buy tunnel i guess. and now you can buy tunnel in conjunction with your tunnelthing.
  the weird decision of should i buy this good thing or should i buy the less good thing and also another thing was supposed to end in adventures. i mean, no it wasn't and also nobody wanted it to but jeez, man.


-is it exciting? does a kingdom work because of forum?
-wouldn't it suck if it turned out that it was a good card
-it's us you guys!
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AdrianHealey

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 04:27:50 am »
0

It's basically warehouse's big brother. Almost everything what warehouse does, forum can do better. Except setting up a hand for draw to x and discard 3 tunnels.
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tailred

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 07:38:04 am »
0

I think there's a worthwhile comparison to cartographer here. 5 cost cantrip sifters. Rarely is the benefit compelling enough to be worth spending a whole $5 and a buy, does eliminating the need for the buy change much?
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Chris is me

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 07:39:20 am »
0

It really is a lot better than Warehouse on some specific boards. Boards with four or five card combos without draw are what immediately come to mind, but really Forum has done work for me whenever I've been able to buy it, which is tough since it competes at cost with so much.

I can't wait until I can set up KC KC Bridge x3 with it.
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mustang255

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 09:42:26 am »
0

Forum is surprisingly good. Sure it costs $5, but it almost guarantees you'll hit at least $5 every time you play it, and cycles and filters your deck at the same time, so the opportunity cost isn't as huge as it seems. On a board without trashing, you'll definitely want some of these.
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aku_chi

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 11:27:56 am »
0

Well, in a board without other sources of +buy, getting a Forum and Province each turn is pretty solid.  It should keep your deck approximately as reliable.  If you have an opportunity to seed your next turn with one card, Forum is a very good option.  tailred's comparison to Cartographer is apt.  Forum has some pros and cons compared with Cartographer, but it is similarly powerful and you'll want it in similar situations.
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schadd

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 03:04:00 pm »
+2

did nobody get my rsp joke
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McGarnacle

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2016, 03:51:24 pm »
+1

did nobody get my rsp joke

I did now!
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Forum Mafia Record
Town 1/2 50%
Scum 0/0

allanfieldhouse

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 10:02:13 am »
+5

I really like the concept of Forum (but I haven't played with it yet). I'm a bit of a sucker for this type of card though. The two main cards this has been compared to are Warehouse and Cartographer. I'd argue that Forum combines the best aspects of these 2 cards while simultaneously eliminating most of their weaknesses.

Forum is vastly superior to Warehouse because it doesn't reduce your hand size. The dream of Warehouse is "Oh yeah, it lets me skip all my junk cards -- I'll get some of those!". Then you have a turn where you start by playing 3 Warehouses, and suddenly you are out of cards in your hand. Forum doesn't have that issue -- you can play as many as you want, and you'll end up with a starting hand of your deck's 5 best cards.

As a $5 cantrip sifter, Cartographer is the closest previous card to Forum. The big difference between the two is that while Cartographer sifts from your deck, Forum sifts from your entire hand + top 3 of your deck. This is a huge advantage for Forum. Even if you haven't drawn any cards yet, that gives Forum a search space of 7 cards to sift through compared to the 4 of Cartographer. If you've already drawn cards, the search space is even larger.

A common situation I've run into is a starting hand with one Cartographer as the only draw card. You play the Cartographer, and it draws something boring while revealing a couple cards that you really wanted this turn. Forum eliminates this issue because it draws everything before it sifts. Sure, you can't improve your next turn this way, but Forum is way better for your current turn.

Finally, we have the below-the-line "free buy" aspect of this card. This is another huge advantage of Forum over Cartographer. One of Cartographer's biggest faults is that it costs $5, and you just can't afford to get it over the alternatives. On the other hand, it's really common to overpay to get an important $5 card when you don't have a +Buy. I think it will be fairly common with $7-8 to skip a slightly better $5 card and pick up a Forum plus a cheap engine component. Even if you already have +Buy in your deck, you can't always line it up with your money while you're building. Basically when +Buy is limited, this card allows you to pick up extra components while building, and it gives you a huge boost in consistency during the end-game if you can afford Forum + Province a couple times.

As others have mentioned, Forum is sneakily good. It's definitely not going to challenge the top $5 cards, but it's basically always going to be a good card if you have any junk in your deck at all. It combines the strengths of Warehouse and Cartographer while eliminating their main weaknesses.
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Witherweaver

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 10:17:20 am »
0

did nobody get my rsp joke

There's an RSP thread about capitalization scheme preferences?
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J Reggie

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 10:26:15 am »
0

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.

SettingFraming

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 10:37:09 am »
0

What others have said is correct, at $5 forum is very nearly strictly better than cartographer. It's a great card in decks with junk, and still a good card in sorta clean decks. Forum as the only "draw" actually works if you've got a bunch of cantrips and a few key terminals you want to play.

The bottom half of the card is important too. Think cost reducers--as soon as you get 5 in play, then you can pile these for free. That's really good. You can also delay your +Buy on boards where it's inconvenient, which can be really handy but usually is less of a big deal.

Also, even if you're going to be getting thin eventually, forum is such a monster card in the early game that I often might pick one up at $5 even if there are other 5's I want. A good comparison is saying that it's the same as the duration of a dungeon. So let's not over hype it, it does cost $5, and there's a lot of competition there, but this is a really good card.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 11:04:48 am by SettingFraming »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 02:48:36 pm »
+3

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.
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Witherweaver

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 02:55:20 pm »
+6

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

37 seems odd without qualifiers.
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Accatitippi

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 05:40:31 pm »
0

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

That's because you don't use the Average Fool's Gold Variant.
I don't recommend it.
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J Reggie

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2016, 01:03:59 pm »
+4

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

It was actually $42 but I had <5>.   

Hertz_Doughnut

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2016, 01:40:58 am »
+11

Forum is boss with Apothecary.

A) Play the Forums first, discard coppers/potion... Apo picks up all coppers at the end of your turn
B) When this gets going, you have 7 coppers and a potion during your buy phase... which purchases a Forum + Apo
C) You're drawing your whole deck by like turn 7-8. Add in engine parts or power terminal to win.
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Chris is me

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2016, 05:02:50 pm »
0

Forum is really actually very good. I keep buying a bunch and always getting exactly what I need in the right order. A world of difference 1 card makes.

I kept using it to guarantee Legionary connects; its way faster to just line up with Forum than to draw deck normally.
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werothegreat

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 03:19:06 pm »
0

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

I'm guessing was involved.
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J Reggie

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 05:13:02 pm »
+1

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

I'm guessing was involved.

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

It was actually $42 but I had <5>.   

ackmondual

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2017, 06:35:52 pm »
+1

I played a game where this was a key card. Settlers/Bustling Village was in the game, and Obelisk was on Forum. I had a turn where I got $37 and 4 buys through Fortune and just bought 4 Provinces, then lost the game by a point. Lesson: you should probably always buy Forum/Something more expensive over something more expensive/nothing.
$37 after doubling seems odd.

It was actually $42 but I had <5>.
Now we're even!
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ehunt

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 06:36:10 pm »
+4

omg forum is so good
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xyz123

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2017, 02:52:25 am »
0

Has anyone else observed something similar to a village idiot with Forum?

I have seen this a couple of times with some of the more casual players at my gaming club. The thought process appears to be "Great, buy lots of Forums and I can draw my deck, discard my rubbish cards and play my good ones". I think they mistake Forum as draw as they don't realise that +3 cards and discard 2 is only maintaining your hand size, not increasing it. They play several Forums along with a few other actions that don't draw and when it comes to playing their treasures they only have a couple in hand and they struggle to have more than 4 or 5 to spend per turn. If they do hit 5 they will often buy another Forum.
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Chris is me

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2017, 09:14:09 am »
0

Has anyone else observed something similar to a village idiot with Forum?

I have seen this a couple of times with some of the more casual players at my gaming club. The thought process appears to be "Great, buy lots of Forums and I can draw my deck, discard my rubbish cards and play my good ones". I think they mistake Forum as draw as they don't realise that +3 cards and discard 2 is only maintaining your hand size, not increasing it. They play several Forums along with a few other actions that don't draw and when it comes to playing their treasures they only have a couple in hand and they struggle to have more than 4 or 5 to spend per turn. If they do hit 5 they will often buy another Forum.

I see the opposite - people deciding Forum isn't worth it when it doesn't increase their hand-size, then taking much longer to build a draw your deck engine while I can consistently hit them with Legionary every by like turn 9 or something.

I mean if they are playing Forum "Big Money", and not actually buying any big money, yeah of course their deck is going to suck. If they're playing a sifting engine without payload to make it worth it, that's also going to suck.
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jomini

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Re: empires: forum
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2017, 01:23:48 pm »
0

Forum is functionally pretty close to a one-off of "trash 3 cards" for most games. Like trashing, it effectively reduces your deck size by three when you try to draw deck. Being able to more easily draw your entire deck, being the single most important part of trashing, means this looks fairly well costed.

Consider Bonfire. It costs $3 to remove two cards from play. $1.5 per card thrashed suggest that a one-off "trash three cards" should be costed around $4.5. But Forum also does not need a buy (really nice with things like Alms or Quest), and more importantly can work on cards not in play. Better still, late game it can "mat" VP cards instead.

Or take the obvious comparison with Warehouse - you also trash 3 cards but functionally gain a blank card. That is a pretty steep penalty so I would say this is worth jumping the $5 mark.

When is sifting like this worse than trashing? Well sometimes you are forced to discard stuff you want to keep or you face end of shuffle dynamics. More obviously, terminal draw is worse with sifting as always.

On the flip side, being able to discard your payload to draw back later once you have drawn all your draw cards is vastly better than trashing the payload.

Effective sifting (along with cheap gainers) remain among the most undervalued powers in Dominion. Forum provides this in a cost effective manner. Better it does not require you to sacrifice a turn on it. I am not sure, but it may well be worth building to $13 on single buy engine board just to keep your engine more reliable
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