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Author Topic: Attacks that attack yourself  (Read 2933 times)

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trivialknot

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Attacks that attack yourself
« on: August 04, 2016, 04:18:51 pm »
+2

Inspired by the thread about debt attacks, I came up with a few cards that attack yourself.  I thought I'd share just for discussion and inspiration.

Quote
Toll Road
$5 Action-Attack-Duration
Until the end of your next turn, on each player's Buy phase, cards cost <1> more.
At the beginning of your next turn, +4 cards, +1 Buy.
This hurts opponents for one turn, and hurts yourself for two turns.  But otherwise, the card is strong enough to balance it out.

Quote
Cobbler
$4 Action-Attack
Each player reveals the top three cards of their deck, puts the Copper back, and discards the rest.
+3 cards
Top-decking copper is weak, especially when you're also doing it to yourself.  But if Cobbler is your last action, Copper might not be so bad.

Quote
Sacred Urn
$4 Treasure-Attack
When you play this, it's worth $2 if you have no other Treasure cards in play.
Each player with at least 4 cards in hand places one on top of their deck.
Top-decking a card from hand can be good (Courtyard) or bad (Ghost Ship).  Can play this in such a way that it's good for you and bad for your opponents?  Or perhaps just play it when you have fewer than 4 cards left in your hand.
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Seprix

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2016, 04:22:37 pm »
0

Reverse Outpost $4
Action - SelfHarm

+$8

After your opponent finishes his next turn, he takes another turn after this.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2016, 04:37:48 pm »
+1

Theta, Roadrunner and I have a card that does exactly that. We think it's well designed and fun. Coming soon to a forum near you.
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tristan

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 04:59:35 pm »
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I really like Sacred Urn as it is not a Silver with a bonus but a potential Silver with a bonus, i.e. it is not strictly better than Silver so the cost of 4$ is OK.
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trivialknot

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2016, 07:36:02 pm »
0

I really like Sacred Urn as it is not a Silver with a bonus but a potential Silver with a bonus, i.e. it is not strictly better than Silver so the cost of 4$ is OK.
It could probably also work at $3 (being a silver whose bonus is roughly equal to its penalty), but I was worried about double-Urn openings.  Sacred Urn is a soft-counter to itself, so it might just pull everyone in and slow the game down significantly.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 04:55:38 am »
+5

Some ideas that came to mind after I read the topic title.

Masochist
Action - $2
+3 Cards
Choose one: Discard 2 Cards; or gain a Curse to your hand

Honest Person
Action - $3
+$2
Trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a card with the same cost.

Purse Maker
Action - $3
+$3
Discard a Copper (or reveal a hand with no Copper)

Tyrant
Action - $4
Gain 2 Spoils from the Spoils pile
Reveal your hand. Discard a card from your hand that the player to your left chooses.

Enchanter
Action - $3
+2 Cards
You may discard an Action from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 11:37:55 am »
0

Some ideas that came to mind after I read the topic title.

Masochist

...

Username checks out.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2016, 12:14:30 pm »
0

Honest Person is generally helpful though? It let's you trash starting junk from your deck with minimal risk, since you can replace most good cards flipped.

Enchanter is totally optional so it's nothing like a self-attack.

The other ideas seem interesting. Purse Maker especially seems like it could work.

In the OP, of course I think a debt cost increaser would work.  The others look neat too.
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Asper

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 11:12:34 pm »
0

Ugh, i wrote something here a while ago, and the posting didn't work...
I think several of these are cool, both in the OP and NMFs suggestions. Which i didn't expect from the thread title. These are the ones i especially like:

Cobbler, because it actually can help you at the beginning of the game.
Honest person, because what it actually does isn't hurting yourself, but offering trashing and pile control.
Enchanter, because it seems really cool to have in your deck.

Also, Purse Maker feels a bit like a mix between Poor House and Moneylender.
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tristan

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2016, 06:08:22 am »
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Enchanter is a conditional Lab and definitely too good for 3. Once you have a moderate Action density and enough low cost Actions (like Enchanter itself) the condition is too easy to fulfill.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2016, 08:10:01 am »
+1

Guys, we already have Soothsayer.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2016, 08:54:21 am »
+2

I have a weaker version of enchanter that we play with at price $4.

('You may discard an action card. If you do: +3 cards, +1 action.')

That seems like the correct price point. Works great in a game with lots of terminals and little villages.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2016, 08:55:50 am »
+1

I'm just going to review all of the cards posted here.

Toll Road: This card is akin to Tactician but overall a bit worse for your deck(?) That's probably fine, though, because it's also an attack. I like cards that do stuff with debt and this is a cute concept that might work out.

Cobbler: This card is better than Smithy in the beginning of the game but obviously gets worse quickly, makes Copper trashing kind of awkward and leaves you with an overall low-quality deck. Still seems decent and interesting and best used in slogs, maybe.

Sacred Urn: I'm not sure this card is any good without Copper trashing. You sacrifice a lot of buying power in the early game to only potentially hurt your opponents. Unless I'm missing something, this card isn't any better than Silver, and thus overpriced at $4. Yes, opening with two of them for your opponents would suck for the other players but it would suck for you as well because you're not getting anywhere. I don't think this card would be fun.

Reverse Outpost: Too extreme and too specific to evaluate without playtesting.

Masochist: Accurately priced and might work. It's probably worse than any other draw card but if it's the only one you might still play it with a Village available. You'd almost always choose to discard but it's nice that you can choose Curse if you need to.

Honest Person: Very good in the beginning but gets worse over time in a similar fashion to Lookout. Hitting your Golds and $5-costs will hurt you way more than some might think as those cards miss the shuffle and you lose a lot of tempo as a result. If players repeatedly trash and re-gain their key cards the game might end more quickly than you'd expect. The name is lame.

Purse Maker: The total potential payload of this card is lower than Poor House's which is fine because the Poor House deck is difficult to set up. On the other hand, it's better than Poor House in the early game and easier to stack. Still this won't usually be worth buying over Silver unless you can trash all your Coppers.

Tyrant: The drawback is huge and thus I can only see this being worth buying in the opening. Playing it after your third shuffle will usually hurt you too much.

Enchanter: Too strong for $3, even at $4 it would be debatable. Also it's kinda boring.
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trivialknot

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Re: Attacks that attack yourself
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 06:35:14 pm »
0

For some reason I missed all the new replies to this thread until now.

I like NoMoreFun's cards.  It's neat how you can turn around the attack of canonical cards and they still seem plausible.  Masochist and Honest Person stand out as particularly cool.

Sacred Urn: I'm not sure this card is any good without Copper trashing. You sacrifice a lot of buying power in the early game to only potentially hurt your opponents. Unless I'm missing something, this card isn't any better than Silver, and thus overpriced at $4. Yes, opening with two of them for your opponents would suck for the other players but it would suck for you as well because you're not getting anywhere. I don't think this card would be fun.
Not sure if this is something you missed, but one neat thing about Sacred Urn is that you don't top-deck a card unless you have at least 4 cards in hand, not including the Urn.  If you can manage to reduce your handsize by just one, it's almost as good as Relic.  But I think I agree that double-Urn is a bad opener.
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