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[McGarnacle]

1. How good is Journeyman?
2. What are good combos?
3. When is it a good choice to go for Journeyman.
4. Why do the two people in the image have such cool hats?

[math]

I find Journeyman to be a fairly good but uninteresting draw card.  I buy it in engines.  Honestly, there's not much more to say about it, other than "be sure not to name the same card for your last Journeyman as you did for all your others".

[McGarnacle]

I find its interaction with Cornucopia is especially interesting. It benefits from a fairly uniform deck, but a deck with lots of variety also work quite well.

[Limetime]

Basically smithy

[McGarnacle]

Basically smithy

Only better

[Deadlock39]

Basically smithy

Only better

#StrictlyBetter

[markusin]

Basically smithy

Only better

#StrictlyBetter

Edge case: You want to get rid of your -1 Card Token so that you can buy Borrow to get the +$1.

[Deadlock39]

Basically smithy

Only better

#StrictlyBetter

Edge case: You want to get rid of your -1 Card Token so that you can buy Borrow to get the +$1.

There's always something isn't there... I forgot that Journeyman doesn't actually draw cards.

[JThorne]

According to the definition of "strictly better" it's not even close. Journeyman is $5, Smithy is $4, which is huge. A strictly better card must have the same or smaller cost and do exactly what the original does plus something else, or must do precisely the same thing as the original but cost less.

From Magic: Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Shock because the only difference is that it does more damage, but everything else is the same, including the cost. Time Walk is strictly better than Time Warp because it does exactly the same thing with a smaller cost (Dang. You can cause your opponent to take an extra turn with Time Warp, so never mind. Not a strictly better relationship. Close, but not quite.) Lightning Bolt is not strictly better than Brimstone Volley, because even though it costs less for the same amount of damage, BV will sometimes do more damage, making it impossible to have a strictly better/worse relationship between the two.

The reason that I have to use Mtg Examples is because Donald isn't trying to crank out hundreds of cards a year and has been very careful not to make any kingdom cards that are strictly better than other cards, nor do overpowered cards cycle out of eligibility, requiring nerfed versions, so as a result there are no Dominion examples. As far as I can tell. I can hear the "challenge accepted" mutterings already...

[Chris is me]

No card is strictly better than any other card if you don't ignore some edge cases, simply because the cards are differently named, may have different tokens on them, piles may be empty, etc. Generally it is implied that name and cost are excluded when discussing "strictly better" for that reason.

[BraveBear]

Even if you disregard cost and the name of the card there are only a handful of strictly better cards.

Grand Market better than Market, GM/Market better than Peddler
Festival better than Woodcutter
Stash/Royal Seal better than Silver

I can't remember the thread but those were the ones I remember

[GendoIkari]

Even if you disregard cost and the name of the card there are only a handful of strictly better cards.

Grand Market better than Market, GM/Market better than Peddler
Festival better than Woodcutter
Stash/Royal Seal better than Silver

I can't remember the thread but those were the ones I remember

Storyteller + Diadem + Not wanting a re-shuffle kill most of those.

[Seprix]

I recently played a Kingdom with drsteelhammer that featured Journeyman. He did not go for it earlier on, while I did, and suddenly, his huge lead he had all but vanished.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160805/log.0.1470424640832.txt

Code: [Select]

Pilgrimage, Crossroads, Ambassador, Tunnel, Bazaar, Bridge Troll, Distant Lands, Ghost Ship, Journeyman, Border Village, Bank
I don't know why he didn't go for Journeyman in hindsight, as it almost makes sure that there is no way on earth I could stall, even when Ghostshipped with a deck full of Coppers.

Anyways, I love Journeyman. It is very strong. Do not let the fine print fool you. It is the Rebuild effect, where the huge block of text detracts from the actual value of the card.

[schadd]

It is very strong. Do not let the fine print fool you.

this is generally bad advice for things

[Beyond Awesome]

This should be in the let's discuss thread

[Chris is me]

I mean it's just kind of simple, it's +3 cards and skip the one you have way too many of that you don't want at all and that card is usually Copper and sometimes your most common Action if you are playing it dead. Tremendously useful. Why would you skip draw on that board? What the fuck?

[drsteelhammer]

Hey, I did not skip draw! I overdrew, stalled for two turns, Ambassador happened and I did not draw anything anymore.

I also don't think that I had not enough draw, they just all happened to be in one and and the villages in my other.

[tailred]

Even if you disregard cost and the name of the card there are only a handful of strictly better cards.

Grand Market better than Market, GM/Market better than Peddler
Festival better than Woodcutter
Stash/Royal Seal better than Silver

I can't remember the thread but those were the ones I remember

Goons over militia is a good one.

[Seprix]

Hey, I did not skip draw! I overdrew, stalled for two turns, Ambassador happened and I did not draw anything anymore.

I also don't think that I had not enough draw, they just all happened to be in one and and the villages in my other.

So basically, I got lucky.

[eHalcyon]

Even if you disregard cost and the name of the card there are only a handful of strictly better cards.

Grand Market better than Market, GM/Market better than Peddler
Festival better than Woodcutter
Stash/Royal Seal better than Silver

I can't remember the thread but those were the ones I remember

Goons over militia is a good one.

Here's the thread that beat this topic into the ground. I linked a post that sums up what needs to be true for something to be a strictly better effect.

[Seprix]

Without that distinction, Gold would be strictly better than Copper.

[JThorne]

Here's the thread that beat this topic into the ground. I linked a post that sums up what needs to be true for something to be a strictly better effect.

Wow, I missed that thread completely. I have to admit I'm utterly floored that anyone could have a discussion that used the phrase "strictly better" that disregards cost, but I can definitely see that it happened. Anyone using that phrase in reference to Magic cards and disregarding costs is asking for ridicule, so color me surprised.

It's definitely appropriate to qualify it as you did as a "strictly better effect" rather than a "strictly better card" which is an entirely different thing.

[GendoIkari]

Here's the thread that beat this topic into the ground. I linked a post that sums up what needs to be true for something to be a strictly better effect.

Wow, I missed that thread completely. I have to admit I'm utterly floored that anyone could have a discussion that used the phrase "strictly better" that disregards cost, but I can definitely see that it happened. Anyone using that phrase in reference to Magic cards and disregarding costs is asking for ridicule, so color me surprised.

It's definitely appropriate to qualify it as you did as a "strictly better effect" rather than a "strictly better card" which is an entirely different thing.

Well the difference is that if we were going by the Magic definition only, the conversation would go like this:

"Hey, let's list all the Dominion cards that are strictly better than other Dominion cards!"

"Oh, there are none. Ok then."

Also, I think that it's more analogous if you consider "cost" to be the cost of purchasing an MTG card, as opposed to the mana cost of casting it. When saying that Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Lightning Strike, you are also ignoring cost. Yes if you have one of each and only need one in your deck, you'll choose Lightning Bolt every time. But that's assuming you can afford to buy Lightning Bolt in the first place. In the same way, if you say that Worker's Village is strictly better than Village, you are assuming that you can afford to buy it in the first place.

The mana cost of a card is more like the cost of playing a Dominion card, which is similar to being terminal vs. non-terminal vs village.