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[schadd]

here is my money pile. it has a nice view

i think that this is my favorite empires card. it's the intuitive thing to do with debt; don't let that big $6 fool you. you get an extra buy where all the costs turn red. outside of that, it gives you precisely 0 net money. and it is easy to get fooled by the big $6—i mean, $6 is totally more than 6 debt, they were talking about that on the forums. it'll totally pay itself off. but i mean, this card demonstrates (or rather, should eventually demonstrate) how much better money is this turn than next turn. and well, usually that hasn't been a critical factor in decision making (maybe you have the choice between peddler and two caravan guards? or something) but here we have it. it costs 5 and produces no 'profit' other than its buy, but it lets you get the good stuff sooner, or potentially bunch up your money together.


-is this card subtly dominated by shuffle luck? if you will use it to buy a $4 and a $5 on turn $3, and then pay off the debt turn 4, then it sucks; that's what you would have done anyway, and maybe trashed some stuff or something. but getting it t4 makes your next shuffle something special.
-is it more to bunch money together and buy the expensive stuff or are you just trying to get your stuff a turn sooner?
-am i deceived by the big $6, and in fact the card is too profane for even the greasiest corner of a wet thrift store?

[J Reggie]

Just played a game with this and Crown. It was totally awesome. My first impression says you often want to spend all of the money now and pay off the debt later, since it's better to get good cards sooner rather than later.

[eHalcyon]

Missed an opportunity to use proper capitalization for this post and this post only.

[faust]

I have used this in a game just to always have $6 one turn sooner than usually. (I paid off my debt the turn after each time.) I wonder how often that is the correct play.

[schadd]

Missed an opportunity to use proper capitalization for this post and this post only.

i also missed an opportunity to link the kkk website. see, it would have fit nicely there between the paragraphs and the questions

[ced]

Capital-Mandarin opens up the possibility of a Scavenger-Stash-esque pseudo golden deck.
If you have three Capitals you can buy Province-Duchy every turn in addition to the Mandarin. Four Capitals lets you buy Province-Province-Estate or Province-Duchy-Duchy. With 5, you can buy Province-Province-Province or Colony-Colony-Estate or Colony-Province-Duchy. Mandarin can also help set up the multiple Capital turn, but you'd need some trashing/sifting to help out or you may end up piling out Mandarins while greening.

[drsteelhammer]

I'm still sceptical about this card. Besides its obvious synergies with cards that don't discard it or an expensive card you desperately want early I don't see it used very often. Paying $5 seems quite a lot to me considering that you have to pay it back everytime except once if you're lucky.

I like the idea behind "debtifying" other cards but it just doesn't seem worth bothering with it too much in my eyes.

[ThetaSigma12]

I'm still sceptical about this card. Besides its obvious synergies with cards that don't discard it or an expensive card you desperately want early I don't see it used very often. Paying $5 seems quite a lot to me considering that you have to pay it back everytime except once if you're lucky.

I like the idea behind "debtifying" other cards but it just doesn't seem worth bothering with it too much in my eyes.

By itself, it's weak. But with Crown, and especially Fortune it's nuts.

[ben_king]

So how good is Capital-Big Money?  Or something like Smithy+Capital+Big Money?

I've never played straight Capital-Big Money, but I've played a few money-ish games where you use Capital to spike a Province.  It seemed pretty good.  Most of the time you didn't mind paying off the debt next turn because your next turn wasn't reliably good anyway.

[jomini]

Counterfeit is quite fun with it - perhaps the most efficient Counterfeit partner since spoils. The place where I suspect it will actually be the strongest are for cards that use treasures in the middle of your turn:
Steller - Drawing 7 cards live is pretty huge, Steller/Capital/Silver gainer seems to be a nice quick engine.
Bm - Being able to grab basically anything out of the Bm deck seems quite handy. If I am fishing for Prince, Forge, Kc, Expand, Bank, or maybe even some $6 like Goons this can quickly help me get the power card that I can then draw and pay off.

Mine, but also most any other Remodel family card, can make really good use of this as a tactical play. Either on the last turn for the buy and say $4 cash or to add +buy & cash to the deck momentarily (e.g. buy two Ports, Mine it into a gold later). Personally, I look forward to the day when I can Mint 6 of these in a Kc deck, draw them, and then snack on 5 or 6 provinces with a glorious pile of Debt left behind.

I could also see it being a cute trick to use Remodel type cards to spike a few (say 2 or 3) for one turn, buy all the components, and then to Remodel to actually gain the (rest of the) provinces.

Most often, though, I suspect this will be something you grab to spike something expensive one turn/shuffle sooner. Ideally you want to alternate between big buys (e.g. Plats) and paying down some of the debt. Same net cash earned, but clumped to be useful.

[traces Around]

So how good is Capital-Big Money?  Or something like Smithy+Capital+Big Money?

Very marginal. To answer the last question there, the results only change by half a percent to a percent positively for the Capital strategies if I force it to not attach Silvers to its buys.