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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Results!)  (Read 3939 times)

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mith

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+3

Results!
View Finalists
View Cards Submitted

This is the ninth contest for this year's set. This week's challenge: Design a card which would fit well in the Hinterlands expansion!

Submission Rules

Each participant may submit one card per challenge.
Participation in previous or future challenges is not required to participate in this one.
Submit your card to me via this forum's messaging system. Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
The name you give your card will appear on the ballot. If multiple cards with the same name are submitted, I will differentiate them with letters in a randomly chosen order, e.g. [Card Name] A, [Card Name] B, etc. Cards themselves will likewise be listed in a random order on the ballot.
I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.
Only submit cards that are your own design.
You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.
A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.
Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere!

Except where specified, you may not submit cards combine certain mechanics from multiple expansions. The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set. Specifically:

Duration cards may only be submitted as candidates for a Seaside or Adventures slot.
Potion-cost cards may only be submitted as candidates for the Alchemy slot.
Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity or Empires slot.
Cards that use Coin tokens and cards that use overpay may only be submitted as candidates for the Guilds slot.
Cards that use Ruins (Looters) and cards that use Spoils may only be submitted as candidates for a Dark Ages slot.
Traveller cards, Reserve cards, and cards making use of player Tokens may only be submitted as candidates for an Adventures slot.
Gathering cards, cards that use Debt, and Split piles may only be submitted as candidates for an Empires slot.

Many mechanics are fair game for any submission. The following is an incomplete list.

Victory/Action and Victory/Treasure hybrid cards.
Cards that allow you to choose an ability from a list.
Cards with on-buy, would-gain, on-gain, and on-trash abilities.



Challenge #9: Hinterlands

Design a Kingdom card that would fit into the Hinterlands expansion. Such a card could have one or more of the following qualities:

Does something when you buy or gain it.
Does something when you buy or gain another card.
Lets you deal with having a large deck or increases the size of your deck.
Cares above Victory cards.

The winner from 2014 is:

Quote from: jamespotter
Diviner

+2 Cards
+1 Buy


While this is in play, when you buy a card, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck, discard any number, and put the rest back on top in any order.

$3      Action

Keep in mind that voters may want something that fills a different niche this time around.

Submissions are due by the end of Thursday, 2016-08-04.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 01:11:48 pm by mith »
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 11:40:14 am »
0

The runner-ups from 2014 will automatically be included in the preliminary voting. The author of these cards are allowed to submit a new card as well. (As is jamespotter, designer of the winning card.)

Quote from: markusin
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

Quote from: ChocophileBenj
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.

Other cards from 2014 may be resubmitted as is, tweaked, or discarded in favor of a new concept.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 08:01:09 am »
0

So curious about the feedback on my submission.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 05:49:03 pm »
0

Submissions closed, working on getting the cards together...
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 05:11:29 pm »
+3

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Quote
Artifact
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1
+1 Buy

When you play this, if there are any Artifact tokens on this pile, remove one and +$2.

When you buy this, put an Artifact token on the Artifact pile.

Clarification: Artifact tokens are a supposed-to-be-infinite resource a la the Coin, Debt, and VP tokens.

Quote
Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $2
When you would gain a card, you may return this from your hand to the supply. If you do, instead, gain a card costing up to $2 more than that card to your hand.

Quote
Colosseum
Types: Victory
Cost: $8
Worth 5 VP

When you gain this, trash any two cards from the supply, each costing less than this.

Quote
Cottage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

Quote
Homing Pigeons
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

Look through your discard pile. You may put up to 2 differently named cards from your discard pile into your hand that are copies of cards you have in play.

Quote
Itinerant Monk
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions

You may discard a card; if you do, put your deck into your discard pile.
You may discard a Victory card; if you do, look through your discard pile and put one card from it into your hand.

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

Quote
Prefecture
Types: Victory
Cost: $7
Worth 1 VP per different cost of the Action cards in your deck.

When you gain this, look through your discard pile, trash a Victory card and gain an equivalent amount of VP.

Quote
Pretty Penny
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $1

The first time you buy this in a turn, +3 Buys.

Quote
Raider
Types: Action Attack
Cost: $6
+2 Cards

You may put your deck in your discard pile. If you do, +2 Cards.
All other players discard their deck.

When you buy this and your deck is empty, set it aside and put it into your hand at the start of your next turn.

Quote
Restored Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions

Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

When you gain this, put a treasure or victory card costing $2 or less from your discard pile on top of your deck.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you gain this, gain a Copper.

Quote
Sorcerer's Sack
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+$1

While this is in play, when you buy a card, name a card, then reveal the top card of your deck. If it is that card you may either trash it or gain a copy of it.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy
+$1

When you buy this or play it, you may trash a Copper from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver.

Quote
Trading Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Choose one: Gain a card worth up to $2; or trash a card worth $2 or less.

Quote
Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

When you gain this, look at the top 5 cards of your deck and put them back in any order, and then gain up to 5 Coppers, putting them on top of your deck.

Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.

Quote
Wealthy Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.

Quote
Wetlands
Types: Action Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP

You may reveal a Wetlands from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

When you buy this card, you may gain a card costing up to $4.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 05:23:00 pm »
0

I see there is no lack of villages. Some boring and some interesting ideas, need to think about this some mroe.
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Seprix

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 06:31:47 pm »
0

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Some wording issues, but I get the gist and I won't be a grammar lawyer. Anyways, not a bad card. Not fantastic, and certainly a pretty bleah village most times, but not the worst card ever?

Quote
Artifact
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1
+1 Buy

When you play this, if there are any Artifact tokens on this pile, remove one and +$2.

When you buy this, put an Artifact token on the Artifact pile.

Clarification: Artifact tokens are a supposed-to-be-infinite resource a la the Coin, Debt, and VP tokens.

So really, there are going to be 10 total Artifact tokens. It is a limited Gold. An interesting idea, but I would imagine there is a better way to do this? I would at least have the card start off with some tokens on the pile, like 3 or something.

Quote
Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $2
When you would gain a card, you may return this from your hand to the supply. If you do, instead, gain a card costing up to $2 more than that card to your hand.

Interesting pure reaction concept, but I think I would rather just have a card that at least did something if you didn't want to react it, like maybe a +2 Cards, or even a +2 Coins. Something lame but at least a little interesting.

Quote
Colosseum
Types: Victory
Cost: $8
Worth 5 VP

When you gain this, trash any two cards from the supply, each costing less than this.

Basically, this only exists to piledrive potentially. I think there are much better ways to do this concept.

Quote
Cottage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

This is normally a pretty awful Village, but is it bad that I still like this card?

Quote
Homing Pigeons
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

Look through your discard pile. You may put up to 2 differently named cards from your discard pile into your hand that are copies of cards you have in play.

This is a weird effect, and I can't really gauge how good this is, but it is probably better than $2, almost for sure. It draws three cards basically.

Quote
Itinerant Monk
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions

You may discard a card; if you do, put your deck into your discard pile.
You may discard a Victory card; if you do, look through your discard pile and put one card from it into your hand.

So, Scavenger, but worse? I do like that you can discard a Victory Card to just topdeck stuff though. I also like that it does not draw. That would be a whole lot better. I would almost not even make this a village, but just +1 Action? I'm not sure yet, I would have to play with this one.

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

Not bad by any means.

Quote
Prefecture
Types: Victory
Cost: $7
Worth 1 VP per different cost of the Action cards in your deck.

When you gain this, look through your discard pile, trash a Victory card and gain an equivalent amount of VP.

Not liking this one. Plus, there's VP tokens?

Quote
Pretty Penny
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $1

The first time you buy this in a turn, +3 Buys.

I like the on-buy trigger, and it can enable engines from an otherwise stagnant non-buy engine. I'd make this card also give a +buy on play, and then it would be great.

Quote
Raider
Types: Action Attack
Cost: $6
+2 Cards

You may put your deck in your discard pile. If you do, +2 Cards.
All other players discard their deck.

When you buy this and your deck is empty, set it aside and put it into your hand at the start of your next turn.

How is that a bad attack? Constant cycling isn't really all that bad. It almost seems to hurt you more than it hurts them, with that +2 Card draw bonus. Maybe I'm missing something.

Quote
Restored Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions

Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

When you gain this, put a treasure or victory card costing $2 or less from your discard pile on top of your deck.

It's a nice Village, perhaps the best one I've seen so far in this list. If I had to pick a village, it would be this one.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you gain this, gain a Copper.

I'd almost make the penalty two Coppers.

Quote
Sorcerer's Sack
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+$1

While this is in play, when you buy a card, name a card, then reveal the top card of your deck. If it is that card you may either trash it or gain a copy of it.

Okay, this is pretty cool. I think the effect could be put on a different card instead, but man oh man, this is pretty rad.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy
+$1

When you buy this or play it, you may trash a Copper from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver.

This is alright. It's got to be a bit worse than Amulet, but it does give a +buy, so it's probably fine. A weak 'trasher', but it's almost like a mini-Trade.

Quote
Trading Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Choose one: Gain a card worth up to $2; or trash a card worth $2 or less.

"Choose one: Gain a card costing up to $2, or trash a card costing $2 or less." Anyways, this will be almost always picked up for the trashing, and it is a VERY STRONG engine card. This card is much stronger than Junk Dealer. I assume you meant that you had to trash or gain a card, and I would fix it like so:

"You may trash a card costing up to $2 from your hand. If you do not, gain a card costing up to $2."

I would vote for the above card with the proposed fix, and I assume that is what the author meant. Otherwise, I can just trash a card costing $2 or less and not have any $2s in hand, making it effectively much better than JD and for cheaper.

Quote
Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

When you gain this, look at the top 5 cards of your deck and put them back in any order, and then gain up to 5 Coppers, putting them on top of your deck.

This is horrible. This will never be bought outside of using the +buy or the emergency village.

Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.

This is almost Forum, before Forum existed.

Quote
Wealthy Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.

What's with all of these villages? I feel like I've seen three variants of this card!

Quote
Wetlands
Types: Action Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP

You may reveal a Wetlands from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

When you buy this card, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

The gaining effect might make this almost a 'must buy' to piledrive the Wetlands, leading to monolithic strategies. I am very concerned about this, but it might be okay, since it's a dead card in hand otherwise. I don't know, this is a cool concept but I think it needs a little work.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 07:04:40 pm »
0

Abandoned Village: I think I've seen this before, I still don't see what purpose there is for a silver gainer village.

Artifact is not very Hinterlandsesque, it also feels kinda gimmicky

Bargain looks pretty fun to open with, and fun to have against cursers. Bold card, I like it.

Collosseum is too much VP, I'm pretty sure.

Cottage is again Treasure+Village, I don't see the design appeal of that.

Homing Pigeons is hilariously underpriced, right? Self-synergy makes this already a lab. Too bad, I like the idea

Itinerant Monk: I really like this one.

Mountain Dwellers is very weak :/ Peddlers are not that great

Prefecture missed the Prosperity contest, maybe for Empires. on gain is very strong though

Pretty Penny is kinda fun, altough it's pretty much a worse Travelling Fair. Might be too weak there are not that many strong engines without +buy

Why is Raiders an attack? So far cards that discard (tribute) are not attacks. I like the draw part of the card, it's pretty original

Oh boy people will hate restored village, a lot of people already hated draw to 5 with the sifting. The on-gain part does not really make it significantly weaker, and it's not that fun, imo

Smelter, another treasure gain penalty, still doesn't excite me.

Sorcerer Sack: Took the challenge to make a worthwhile +1 card :) I applaud your bravery, but the card is Duchess level weak.

Tinker is on of the few cards I think is pretty well designed, pretty good money card.

Trading Village; or the village that builds the engine for you. Very strong, probably not that fun.

I don't get Tribe

Troglodyte Caves is kinda neat. Also a pretty strong utility card, maybe too good.

There is a conspiracy, the same village has been tweaked by the dominion bot and submitted four times.

Wetland sounds ok. Not really an opinion on it yet.
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Miked

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 08:26:03 pm »
0

I finally got around to submitting something to one of these so I'll give my first impressions of the cards.
 
Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
This seems fine, you can use it when you start greening to ensure there's a village in your next hand which could come up. I think a different action would suit this better than a village though.

Quote
Artifact
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1
+1 Buy

When you play this, if there are any Artifact tokens on this pile, remove one and +$2.

When you buy this, put an Artifact token on the Artifact pile.

Clarification: Artifact tokens are a supposed-to-be-infinite resource a la the Coin, Debt, and VP tokens.
So this is a one time gold with a buy but sometimes it isn't if your opponent plays one and uses the token and it uses tokens which isn't a hinterlands thing. Not really a fan of this one.

Quote
Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $2
When you would gain a card, you may return this from your hand to the supply. If you do, instead, gain a card costing up to $2 more than that card to your hand.
I think this could do with a weak action to make using it a bit less automatic, with no gaining this is basically just a one shot silver so perhaps it should have some kind of weak gaining action to go with the reaction.

Quote
Colosseum
Types: Victory
Cost: $8
Worth 5 VP

When you gain this, trash any two cards from the supply, each costing less than this.
This seems much better than province and it doesn't really add anything to the game that salt the earth doesn't.

Quote
Cottage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
A cheap bazaar that gums up your deck. This type of effect is only really good in slogs so I don't get why it's a village.

Quote
Homing Pigeons
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

Look through your discard pile. You may put up to 2 differently named cards from your discard pile into your hand that are copies of cards you have in play.
There's a lot of hoops to jump through for this, the pay off is huge but you rarely have much control over what is in your discard pile so it seems a bit too random for my liking. Also for a 2 cost you should probably only be able to get 1 card.

Quote
Itinerant Monk
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions

You may discard a card; if you do, put your deck into your discard pile.
You may discard a Victory card; if you do, look through your discard pile and put one card from it into your hand.
This seems on the weaker side but that's fine I like that it's trying something different think, a nice village variant.

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.
This seems strong in money games and those treasury engines, close to an activated conspirator which seems fine given the constraints of keeping some treasures around.

Quote
Prefecture
Types: Victory
Cost: $7
Worth 1 VP per different cost of the Action cards in your deck.

When you gain this, look through your discard pile, trash a Victory card and gain an equivalent amount of VP.
When you gain a card it's already in your discard pile right? I'm not sure but if it is then this is way too good. Either way it isn't a hinterlands card.

Quote
Pretty Penny
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $1

The first time you buy this in a turn, +3 Buys.
This seems like it would work better as an event: $2 for +3 Buys, gain a copper. Avoids the instant pile out potential.

Quote
Raider
Types: Action Attack
Cost: $6
+2 Cards

You may put your deck in your discard pile. If you do, +2 Cards.
All other players discard their deck.

When you buy this and your deck is empty, set it aside and put it into your hand at the start of your next turn.
This is not really an attack and is really weird. I don't like how it causes you to shuffle every time you want the full 4 cards for no apparent reason. The when buy effect seems a bit redundant when you're already drawing your deck, it's just a really weird Hunting Grounds.

Quote
Restored Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions

Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

When you gain this, put a treasure or victory card costing $2 or less from your discard pile on top of your deck.
Sometimes this is going to be amazing and sometimes it's going to be a necropolis that makes you discard. I don't think the on gain weakens it too much and i'm not even sure it's needed. once you start drawing your deck this becomes a really weak card.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you gain this, gain a Copper.
This is kinda like a Peddler if you don't trash the copper and if you can then it's a lab with a drawback. I think it's strong and not too exciting but it isn't too bad.

Quote
Sorcerer's Sack
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+$1

While this is in play, when you buy a card, name a card, then reveal the top card of your deck. If it is that card you may either trash it or gain a copy of it.
I don't like the terminal +1 card but the ability is alright. I think it probably shouldn't be able to gain provinces though.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy
+$1

When you buy this or play it, you may trash a Copper from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver.
I don't see why this is when buy, not gain. This looks like quite a good card, gives decent early economy and +Buy for later. I like it.

Quote
Trading Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Choose one: Gain a card worth up to $2; or trash a card worth $2 or less.
This is really strong and the wording isn't clear, I'm assuming you trash the card from your hand and have to gain if you can't trash, but even then it's super strong and not in a good way.

Quote
Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

When you gain this, look at the top 5 cards of your deck and put them back in any order, and then gain up to 5 Coppers, putting them on top of your deck.
It's a tribe of gardeners? I don't really get the point of this.

Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.
The on play effect seems strong enough for 5, but the when gain isn't that good so maybe it's okay. Not too exciting really.

Quote
Wealthy Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.
Pretty automatic opener, unlike nomad camp there isn't really any opportunity cost to open this and try to get 5 next turn. Actually this just seems too much better than silver to cost 4, not to mention that silver gaining and villages don't really fit together.

Quote
Wetlands
Types: Action Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP

You may reveal a Wetlands from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

When you buy this card, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I think this has a lot of problems, first of all i don't see when you would buy this and not gain a second copy. In the early game you would just buy the other card and not take the extra junk and in the late game you would take another for the points. 4 VP split over two cards for $4 is already a good deal and then this is also an action and can gain other things too, the pile also runs out really quickly. I don't really think this card works unfortunately.
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2016, 01:23:22 am »
0

All the villages!

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a Victory card, you may set this aside. If you do, gain a Silver in hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
This is probably stronger than Mining Village, because it also gives you +$2 in the late game, but doesn't trash itself.  Seems okay.

Quote
Cottage
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
This is very weak.  Weak villages are okay because sometimes you'll get them anyway when there aren't any other splitters available, but I think even a weak village should have something nice going for it.  I don't think being a cheap Bazaar is a nice enough thing.

Quote
Itinerant Monk
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions

You may discard a card; if you do, put your deck into your discard pile.
You may discard a Victory card; if you do, look through your discard pile and put one card from it into your hand.
I like the effect, but this causes a lot of mid-turn shuffles, which are slow.  People aren't playing with these fan cards online, you know.

Quote
Restored Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions

Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.

When you gain this, put a treasure or victory card costing $2 or less from your discard pile on top of your deck.
I like this, but it's too similar to Production Village ($4-cost action, +2 actions, draw to 5) which won another contest a long time ago.  It's also similar to Fugitive, which Donald X had said was too strong for $4, and too weak for $5; I think this is also too strong for $4.

Quote
Trading Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Choose one: Gain a card worth up to $2; or trash a card worth $2 or less.
This seems fine at $5.  This lacks the utility of some other cantrip trashers (Junk Dealer, Upgrade), but it's made up by being a village, and the fact that trashing is optional.

Quote
Tribe
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

When you gain this, look at the top 5 cards of your deck and put them back in any order, and then gain up to 5 Coppers, putting them on top of your deck.
To understand how weak this is, compare to Banquet.  To hit $5 with Tribe, you need to gain a Tribe, and at least one Copper, which is at least as much junk as Banquet.  Tribe also requires using the previous turn to set it up.  Finally, Tribe reduces the number of new cards you draw the next turn.

Quote
Wealthy Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you gain this, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.
I think this is very strong.  It's like a Festival without +Buy.  Also, it's generally bad design to have a $4-cost card with is nearly strictly better than silver.

Now the VP cards!

Quote
Colosseum
Types: Victory
Cost: $8
Worth 5 VP

When you gain this, trash any two cards from the supply, each costing less than this.
Literally a second pile of Provinces?  It's actually harder to end the game with Colosseums than with Provinces, since emptying Colosseums doesn't trigger game end.

Quote
Prefecture
Types: Victory
Cost: $7
Worth 1 VP per different cost of the Action cards in your deck.

When you gain this, look through your discard pile, trash a Victory card and gain an equivalent amount of VP.
This is breaking one of those rules from Rinkworks.  In the middle of a game, you don't necessarily know how much VP a card is worth.  What if it's a Vineyards?  Or for that matter, a Prefecture?

Quote
Wetlands
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP

You may reveal a Wetlands from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

When you buy this card, you may gain a card costing up to $4.
It's hard to assess how good this is.  $4 for 4 VP is good, but then it adds two green to my deck.  And the peddler effect is only good if my deck is small, and small decks aren't good for slogs.  I like it.

I prefer a slight alteration: "+1 Action.  If you have another Wetlands in play, +1 Card, +$1."  Revealing cards is annoying, might as well have it in your play area.

Treasure cards!

Quote
Artifact
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1
+1 Buy

When you play this, if there are any Artifact tokens on this pile, remove one and +$2.

When you buy this, put an Artifact token on the Artifact pile.

Clarification: Artifact tokens are a supposed-to-be-infinite resource a la the Coin, Debt, and VP tokens.
I don't like that you can steal other people's Artifact tokens, as it discourages the second player from buying any.  I would prefer if each player had their own supply of Artifact tokens (similar to Trade tokens from LFN's fan expansion).  In general, I'm not excited about this card.

Quote
Pretty Penny
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $1

The first time you buy this in a turn, +3 Buys.
There isn't much to differentiate this from Traveling Fair.  It is basically weaker and less interesting.

Now for the non-terminals!

Quote
Homing Pigeons
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

Look through your discard pile. You may put up to 2 differently named cards from your discard pile into your hand that are copies of cards you have in play.
Too strong.  The Bustling Village that is its own Settler.  And there's other stuff going on that makes it too complex.

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.
It's one of those $5-cost peddlers that increases the value of your deck by $1, or possibly $2 under the right conditions.  It seems a solid and balanced card.  Although I guess for fan cards I expect a little more pizazz than I would from a canonical card.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you gain this, gain a Copper.
This is probably stronger than a peddler, but not more exciting.

Quote
Troglodyte Caves
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded.

When you gain this, you may reveal a card from your hand costing less than this. Gain a copy of it.
To reveal a card, you need to have kept it in your hand, rather than playing it.  It seems decent, particularly with $4 Victory cards.

All the other cards!

Quote
Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $2
When you would gain a card, you may return this from your hand to the supply. If you do, instead, gain a card costing up to $2 more than that card to your hand.
I thought I saw an Ironworks/Bargain combo, but hilariously, Bargain prevents you from getting the +1 Action to immediately play the Goons you just gained.  A one-shot silver with extra utility; this is fine.

Quote
Raider
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $6
+2 Cards

You may put your deck in your discard pile. If you do, +2 Cards.
All other players discard their deck.

When you buy this and your deck is empty, set it aside and put it into your hand at the start of your next turn.
Previous commenters seemed very puzzled as to why this is an attack card.  It's obvious!  Your opponents have to sit through a mid-turn shuffle each time you play it.  Hit them where it hurts!  Fun is a zero-sum game!

Quote
Sorcerer's Sack
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card
+$1

While this is in play, when you buy a card, name a card, then reveal the top card of your deck. If it is that card you may either trash it or gain a copy of it.
This is pretty good, because it trashes cards without hurting your current turn.  Like Masquerade, or Moneylender.  It's cute how the +1 Card makes it harder to predict the top card of your deck.  It's very luck-based, but if you buy two cards you're guaranteed to hit.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy
+$1

When you buy this or play it, you may trash a Copper from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver.
It's like an Amulet that does all three of its things.  I like it, but my one complaint is the on-buy effect.  I think it's too strong.  $4 to convert a copper to a silver AND you gain a card that is decent by itself.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 01:32:41 am by trivialknot »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 01:58:37 am »
+3

Possible problem with Sorcerer's Stack: gaining N SS's can gain N-1 of the top card of your deck. With deck tracking, gaining loads of Provinces could be very bad.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2016, 11:26:26 pm »
0

Apparently everyone things Hinterlands could use another village.

Troglodyte Caves is one from the previous contest that I've already played with a few times, so I know I like it.

I like the bottom half of Sorcerer's Stack, but the top half is ugly.

With all the others, someone else has already said what I would have said about them.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 11:31:44 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2016, 10:08:14 pm »
0

Oh no, i missed this one :(
I would have sent Well (formerly Fountain) into the race...

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 03:04:01 pm »
0

Results:

(TBA)
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Voting!)
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 03:04:34 pm »
0

Quote
Homing Pigeons
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card
+1 Action

Look through your discard pile. You may put up to 2 differently named cards from your discard pile into your hand that are copies of cards you have in play.

Quote
Mountain Dwellers
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+1 Action

Reveal your hand. If you revealed 3 or more Treasure cards, +$1.

When you buy this, you may trash a Treasure card you have in play. Gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more than it.

Quote
Pretty Penny
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $1

The first time you buy this in a turn, +3 Buys.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy
+$1

When you buy this or play it, you may trash a Copper from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver.

Quote
Wetlands
Types: Action Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2 VP

You may reveal a Wetlands from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

When you buy this card, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2016, 05:35:08 pm »
0

So I haven't looked at this so far because honestly Hinterlands isn't the most exciting expansion ever - it's decent, but it has one of the weakest themes both thematically and flavor-wise. But let's look at the finalists:

Homing pigeons:
It's a Settlers for cards you have in play. If I've learned anything from Settlers, it's that working with the discard pile is tricky stuff. It still seems far too good far a $2 cantrip compared to Pearl Diver and Vagrant. I think it would still be too good if it only put 1 card into your hand. The version presented here should probably cost $4. $3 might be fine since you don't want to open with them.
The idea itself is interesting, but I don't like that it encourages monolithic strategies.

Mountain Dwellers:
Hmm. The effect alone seems mostly better than Silver. It's a bit automatic on money-ish boards, I'd say. I'm not sure why it's "exactly $3 more" rather than "up to $3 more".

Pretty Penny:
It's like if someone went to a Travelling Fair to exhibit their Masterpiece! I generally don't like using cards for things that could easily be events; and this could, by "Gain a Copper, if this is....". I think Masterpiece could just as well have been an Event, but well, they didn't exist at that point. Anyway, I'm not excited.

Tinker:
I didn't know Mine was so popular! But this is uh a bad Mine. The on-play is super weak. And the on-buy? Well, that's not too exciting either. I think Mountain Dwellers does this better.

Wetlands:
It's a Peddler-VP. Well one thing I don't like is that it gives 4VP for $4. Sure, it also gives 2 junk, but they aren't as junky as regular junk, and ultimately I think it's too much better than Duchy. Proposal: only allow gaining non-victory cards. Sure, you would want to get 2 of these to line them up, but isn't that a bit too easy? I think it's still good enough without the restriction.
I like this idea best, but I think it's broken without my proposed fix. Not sure how I'll transform that opinion into a rating.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2016, 06:50:34 pm »
0

Oops, I forgot to comment on this or even vote (Pokemon Go!), and then there was so little discussion here that I never got a reminder from it appearing in new posts or something.

My entry was Itinerant Monk. 

Quote
Itinerant Monk
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions

You may discard a card; if you do, put your deck into your discard pile.
You may discard a Victory card; if you do, look through your discard pile and put one card from it into your hand.

I think the few people who commented and called it weak missed that this is "demonic tutor".  If you have a Victory card in hand (and you're willing to discard one other card if needed), you can get any card from your deck into your hand.  It's also +2 actions so you can play it and continue, even if the card you picked was terminal.  I'm actually worried that it's still too strong.  While making the submission, I went back and forth on how tough to make the discard requirements, from easier (discard a card and then discard a card - no restrictions, like Hamlet) to harder (discard a non-Victory card and then discard a Victory card - or vice versa, so you'd need to give up a useful card for max effect).

As far as it being too slow... well, I don't think it's much worse than Chancellor or Scrying Pool.  But it's easier to buy than Scrying Pool and I expect it would be a lot more desirable to have than Chancellor, so it's a valid concern.

On the finalists...

Homing Pigeon sounds super strong, but I guess its strength varies with where you are in the shuffle.  If your discard pile is empty, it's not going to do much.  I don't think it's really Hinterlands-y though.  It comes closest to hitting the filtering theme, but it's not actually filtering.

Mountain Dwellers doesn't sound that fun to me.  I like the on-buy, but rewarding mass Treasures is not my idea of a good time.

Pretty Penny sounds OK, but I think its impact on a kingdom may be really similar to Travelling Fair.

Tinker sounds less fun than Mountain Dwellers.

Wetlands sounds like you just want to load up on lots of them?  If you use the on-buy to gain another Wetlands, it's just like you're buying two Peddlers at $2 each.  Overall it just sounds too similar to Peddler.

Uh, so I guess Mountain Dwellers is my favourite, because it seems most likely to offer a new experience.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2016, 07:23:30 pm »
0

Ugh, the ones I liked best from the first round didn't make it to the finals (including Itinerant Monk and Troglodyte Caves).

I agree with what eHalcyon said about most of them except Tinker and Wetlands. I actually think Tinker does what it does in a more interesting way than Mountain Dwellers so I like it better. And, even though I agree that Wetlands' on-buy effect is too strong, I like the idea and I think it wouldn't be hard to fix. Those two are probably my favorites of the ones that are left.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 07:24:53 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2016, 07:50:27 pm »
+1

It's between Mountain Dwellers and Wetlands. I really like Wetlands, but it does need a bit of a nerf. I wonder if Wetlands wins, we as a community could decide how best to nerf it.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2016, 12:41:10 am »
+1

Wetlands sounds like you just want to load up on lots of them?  If you use the on-buy to gain another Wetlands, it's just like you're buying two Peddlers at $2 each.  Overall it just sounds too similar to Peddler.
I am not a fan of Wetlands but I like to point out that it is a conditional Peddler; you cannot play the "last" Wetlands.
I think that it is too strong but I don't see how it can easily be nerfed. 1VP would make the card too weak. So perhaps just get rid of the on-buy bonus?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2016, 01:23:27 am »
0

Wetlands sounds like you just want to load up on lots of them?  If you use the on-buy to gain another Wetlands, it's just like you're buying two Peddlers at $2 each.  Overall it just sounds too similar to Peddler.
I am not a fan of Wetlands but I like to point out that it is a conditional Peddler; you cannot play the "last" Wetlands.
I think that it is too strong but I don't see how it can easily be nerfed. 1VP would make the card too weak. So perhaps just get rid of the on-buy bonus?

Yes, but if you get a bunch then not playing the last one is a small price to pay to get a bunch of VP in return.  But yeah, if you only get a couple it's more significant.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2016, 06:46:38 am »
0

I just noted that the conditional Peddler stuff is not the only issue of Wetlands.
It provides a coin-VP ratio of 1 which is totally crazy and even better than Colony (to be fair, the downside is that the VPs are spread over 2 dead cards).
You'd never buy a Duchy in the endgame and with 8 Coins and 2 Buys you might even buy 2 Wetlands and gain 2 more for 8VPs.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2016, 06:53:39 am »
0

If I had to submit Mountain Dwellers again, I would make it on gain and "up to $3 more", and maybe simplify the top part. I made it exactly originally to prevent IGG abuse, but thinking about it more it's not strictly better than just buying IGG because of money density math.

Homing Pigeons is probably overturned, but at least it doesn't do much when you open with it.

Pretty Penny may be similar to Travelling Fair, but that's a different set and an event and only provides +2 buys. I kind of like this one.

Tinker is similar to Mountain Dwellers. It seems fine to me.

Wetlands seems a bit crazy. It already provides more VP than Duchy if you get two in one purchase, and then it can do still do stuff, especially if you get them en masse. Also easy to win/lose the split 6-2 in 2- player similar to Port.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2016, 06:34:43 pm »
0

So the one I submitted was Colosseum.  It's not a flashy card and I didn't expect it to do well.  Although contrary to reactions, testing suggests that it makes games go slower, not faster.

My favorite was Sorceror's Sack, although I ended up not voting for it because mail-mi made a good point about potential abuse.  I think it could be fixed by limiting it to cards costing up to $6, and possibly discarding the revealed card.

This discussion has persuaded me that Wetlands might be too powerful.  It's junk, sure, but at most you have one junk card in your hand per turn. There are lots of tweaks to try though.  Wetlands could cost $5 and gain you another card costing $4 (or $5?)
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 9: Hinterlands (Finalists!)
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2016, 07:03:03 pm »
0

Why not just remove the below the line part of Wetlands?  I think that's all you'd have to do to make it a good card.

EDIT: I also like trivialknot's suggested tweak for the wording of Wetlands.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 07:06:46 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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