Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: empires: new, exciting attacks (enchantress, catapult/rocks)  (Read 5460 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
+2


oh, how the tables have turned! the curser is military equipment and the other thing is a lady moving magicks around with her fingers.


these two are new and exciting in different ways. as the other pairings have been. enchantress is a totally new thing, the attack variant that people have been thinking about from the start but hasn't had much of a method of implementation. well, this one is kinda hard, and for several reasons wouldn't want to be in the first few expansions, but we're all good at rules now. there's a whole subforum for it! anyway, enchantress really smacks down rebuild and simple money strategies pretty hard, maybe counter-intuitively. it seems like a good attack, and it more or less completely stacks with most of the other ones! good luck if you get hit by a discard and an enchantress every turn.


catapult is another thing that's sorta been looming around but hasn't happened. theoretically we would want to gate some of the more powerful attacks behind trashing expensive cards, and cursing is, well, up there. too bad it hasn't been gated yet though. and it's neat thematically! the rocks will rouse an indian burial ground behind the opponent's kingdom if they're expensive enough (like a particularly neat seal on an envelope, for example) and you can then fling that indian burial back at your opponent's kingdom but it won't do anything. catapult is a bit of an oddity besides that thing; you cast a knights on yourself to cast a witch on them but knights are bad this game and witches are p good. also rocks is probably the worst bottom pile without its upstairs neighbor, which is interesting since it is one of two that don't mention each other at all.


-how different and revolutionary are these attacks? and perhaps empires as a whole, considering things like delve?
-how often do you completely forget to enforce the enchantress attack?
-what else does catapult want to throw? thematically and otherwise (rats!)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 07:17:44 pm by schadd »
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 06:45:41 pm »
0

oh jeeeez there's three of them. use this one please


for some reason it was taking a really long time to submit threads so i refreshed it a couple times. the third time i got up and did a different thing and came back. and here we are.
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 07:08:52 pm »
+6

oh jeeeez there's three of them.


>My reaction when we're discussing multiple cards at once.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 07:19:16 pm »
+2

oh jeeeez there's three of them.


>My reaction when we're discussing multiple cards at once.
man you should look at game reports. they do like 10 there, usually more
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

Roadrunner7671

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1845
  • Shuffle iT Username: Roadrunner7672
  • Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
  • Respect: +1346
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 11:50:22 am »
+4

I've found that Rocks isn't a very strong attack.
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 12:08:18 pm »
+1

I guess we're not discussing Legionary?
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 12:16:28 pm »
0

I guess we're not discussing Legionary?
i mean, it looks like the only thing we're discussing is which cards we're discussing, so far. legionary is in a different group.
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

ced

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
  • Respect: +99
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 01:24:24 pm »
+5

Enchantress feels like a card you buy for the durational draw. The attack is just a bonus sometimes, since it won't hurt engines nearly as much as it can hurt BM. Kind of like Haunted Woods, really. Haunted Woods is at its best when you can pick up a few to start each turn with an 8 or 11 card hand in your engine, and Enchantress will be used similarly (albeit for 7/9 cards). One advantage Enchantress has here is that you can pick two up in your opening buys rather than having to buy them over/delay them for other 5s.

One interesting aspect of Enchantress's attack is that a good counter to it is your own Enchantress. Starting with a larger hand means you have more options for which action gets pigged.
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 04:27:17 pm »
0

One interesting aspect of Enchantress's attack is that a good counter to it is your own Enchantress. Starting with a larger hand means you have more options for which action gets pigged.
that is something that seems to be a theme with empires, a little bit—for example, with wild hunt, 6 of them has a lot better payout than 4 but 10 seems like it squishes the snot out of 0, even if the opponent has some competing draw, just because you can run away with the vp. also catapult, cursing and discard attacking makes it a lot harder for opponent to play her own catapults, especially early on
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 06:52:47 pm »
+1

Catapult is a split pile that I feel will rarely run down to the second card in two-player. There just aren't a lot of boards on which you would want 3 Catapults.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 11:03:53 pm »
+3

Enchantress feels like a card you buy for the durational draw. The attack is just a bonus sometimes, since it won't hurt engines nearly as much as it can hurt BM.

Ha. This is super wrong.

Enchantress really fucks up engines, just not when they're finished being put together. When they're being built its a huge pain in the dick. Your Trasher never works. You can't line up Village / Terminal when you only have one of each. You can't play your own fucking Enchantress. The attack really does fuck up engines. I think it's pretty rare that you don't just open two of these.

Catapult is fun but it's not actually that great. It's more fun than not playing with it though so who cares? Throw cards at your friends.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

ced

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
  • Respect: +99
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 04:53:43 am »
0


Ha. This is super wrong.

Enchantress really fucks up engines, just not when they're finished being put together. When they're being built its a huge pain in the dick. Your Trasher never works. You can't line up Village / Terminal when you only have one of each. You can't play your own fucking Enchantress. The attack really does fuck up engines. I think it's pretty rare that you don't just open two of these.

Yes, that's true. When the engine is still money-dense it would be hard to get much going. On some boards this could be mitigated by picking up cheap cantrips over Silvers (e.g. Oasis, Wishing Well, even just extra Villages), and BM doesnt have this option - unless you're Enchantress BM.

I agree that you'd want to open double Enchantress a lot of the time. I think this opening will highlight first-player advantage a lot, though.

Catapult is a split pile that I feel will rarely run down to the second card in two-player. There just aren't a lot of boards on which you would want 3 Catapults.

I think the intended use of the third Catapult is that you throw it at them for a Curse. Perhaps this might come up if you're much thinner than they are somehow and want the Rocks?
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 05:26:49 am »
+9

Your Trasher never works.

The problem though is that if you open double Enchantress your trasher doesn't work either.

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2016, 05:45:55 am »
0

Catapult is a split pile that I feel will rarely run down to the second card in two-player. There just aren't a lot of boards on which you would want 3 Catapults.

I think the intended use of the third Catapult is that you throw it at them for a Curse. Perhaps this might come up if you're much thinner than they are somehow and want the Rocks?

It might work if you're already ahead. But if both players have 2 Catapults, then buying the third one to throw and give the opponent the option to buy Rocks seems pretty bad. Better to just buy Silver.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

LibraryAdventurer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1795
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • I wish my username had the links like it once did.
  • Respect: +1674
    • View Profile
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016, 12:10:14 am »
0

Catapult is a split pile that I feel will rarely run down to the second card in two-player. There just aren't a lot of boards on which you would want 3 Catapults.

I think the intended use of the third Catapult is that you throw it at them for a Curse. Perhaps this might come up if you're much thinner than they are somehow and want the Rocks?

It might work if you're already ahead. But if both players have 2 Catapults, then buying the third one to throw and give the opponent the option to buy Rocks seems pretty bad. Better to just buy Silver.

I've played two games now where we've not only bought all the Catapults, but we emptied the rocks as well.

J Reggie

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 842
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
  • Respect: +1487
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: empires: new, exciting attacks (enchantress, catapult/rocks)
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2016, 01:55:03 pm »
0

Catapult was really nice in the 3p game I played with it. The first time I reached something, I threw it at the table. I'm allowed to do that because they're my cards. Almost every time I bought Enchantress in the first two games it showed up in, it got trashed by Knights.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.391 seconds with 21 queries.