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[Destry]

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

This doesn't need the setup rule; cards get trashed in most games.

Just want to point that without the setup, in a game without trashing, all cards are tied for most common card in the trash, and therefore, all cards are +1 VP. The largest deck would get a pretty big bonus.

[eHalcyon]

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

This doesn't need the setup rule; cards get trashed in most games.

Just want to point that without the setup, in a game without trashing, all cards are tied for most common card in the trash, and therefore, all cards are +1 VP. The largest deck would get a pretty big bonus.

It's equally valid (and I'd say more common) to say that there must be at least 1 copy in the trash for it to count.  If there's nothing trashed, then thre is nothing in the trash to be worth +1VP.

[Destry]

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

This doesn't need the setup rule; cards get trashed in most games.

Just want to point that without the setup, in a game without trashing, all cards are tied for most common card in the trash, and therefore, all cards are +1 VP. The largest deck would get a pretty big bonus.

It's equally valid (and I'd say more common) to say that there must be at least 1 copy in the trash for it to count.  If there's nothing trashed, then thre is nothing in the trash to be worth +1VP.

Good point, especially since you could use, say Gravedigger, to retrieve the lone Duchy from the trash and leave it empty. I do prefer it with the setup and have a default bonus card.

[Destry]

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if the trash is not empty, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

Trying a quick fix.

[AdrianHealey]

Archaeologist
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 1/3/6/10/15 VP if you have 1/2/3/4/5 copies of a particular Ruins.
Setup: Put a Ruins face-up sideways on each Kingdom pile. When a player gains the first card from a Kingdom pile, they also gain the Ruins on top of it.

Even not taken into account the usage of ruins, I am not a huge fan of the first mover advantage on this.

Burial Grounds
Types: Landmark
When scoring, -3 VP for each differently named card in your deck which has a copy in the trash.

Burial Mounds
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 3 VP per differently named card in the trash that you have a copy of.

Well... 2 people really need to come forward and explain this coincidence, haha. Either way, not a huge fan of either concept. I tried thinking about doing anything with the trash, but nothing really stuck out. This particular examples don't really show me otherwise. The first one: when you can trash copper, you'll trash all the copper. The second one: even if you can trash copper, it's not that difficult to keep one copper. Either way, not a huge fan. I am trying to imagine fun game interactions, but I am just not seeing it.

I did like Conman's point on Grounds: " I suppose it's an incentive to throw a few engine pieces in the trash in the hopes of catching your opponent out." Maybe Bural Grounds should be restricted to action cards, so you can only use it strategically in that sense, which is awesome. On the other hand, maybe that just incentivizes BM, which is bad.

Cenotaph
Types: Landmark
During Clean-up, you may place one card you discard from play or your hand face down underneath this.
When scoring, 1 VP per differently named card underneath this that you have a copy of.

Clarification: You may place one card underneath Cenotaph every turn.

This is slightly better, I think, but there should be some kind of penalty, I think, otherwise it's just a free trasher, even without the vp gaining.

Citadel
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 1 VP per card in your deck which no other player has a copy of.

A bit lackluser. I think I'll probably like it more if it was slightly more VP.

Deep Mine
Types: Landmark
Whenever a player plays their second action in a single turn, move 1 VP from the Province pile to here.
Whenever a player ends their turn without having played any action cards, take the VP from here.
Setup: Put 8 VP on the Province pile, plus 2 VP per player.

This one I do like, although it probably, again, incentivizes playing BM versus a non-bm player, which is bad.

Golden Isles
Types: Landmark
During each player's buy phase, they may return 1 VP token for +$1. This may only be done once per turn.
When scoring, 4 VP if you have no VP tokens, and 2 VP if you have fewer than 2 VP tokens.
Setup:  Each player receives 13 VP tokens at start of game.

Using VP for $ is interesting. I am just not sure if it works.

Middle Class
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 1 VP per non-Treasure card costing exactly $3 in your deck.

Too much like an outtake and a little bit uninspiring.

New World
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if there are 2 or fewer empty Supply piles, -4 VP for each Victory card costing $6 or more in your deck.

I usually hate 3 pile endings, but this is an hilarious way of actually forcing it. I do think I like it, because it's so cruel. Playing with this landmark in a game where 3 pile endings would be weird is hilarious.

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

Cute set up. But again: making coppers worth something is meh. I guess it's only cool in non-estate, non-copper trashing games, imo. Everything else it just feels meh.

Plains
Types: Landmark
Whenever you gain a Victory card, move 2 VP from its pile to this. When you gain a Province, take the VP from this.
Setup: Put 4 VP on each non-Gathering, non-Province Victory card Supply pile per player.

A bit uninspiring. To me, the idea of VP is to get VP in a different way, not more VP when you buy V cards.

Rally
Types: Landmark
Once during an opponents turn, when all of your opponent's cards are either in play or in their hand, take 1 VP from here.
Setup: Put 6 VP here per player.

Cute. Not wow, but ok. Less accounting than philosopher's stone, so that's cool.

Sacrificial Cenote
Types: Landmark
Whenever you resolve an attack which ends up doing nothing to other players, or otherwise resolve a card that is prevented from having its printed effect, +1 VP.

Sounds like it'll need a large faq, but I guess it's not strictly impossible to define what it means, right. So I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Senate
Types: Landmark
At the start of your Buy phase, if you have no cards in your deck and at least one card in your discard pile, take 2 VP from here.
Setup: Put 6 VP here per player.

A bit bland, but it works on an unusual thing, so that's good.

Statue
Types: Landmark
At the end of your turn, if you played 5 or more treasures that turn, take 2 VP from here.
Setup: Put 6 VP here per player.

Needs less BM.

Stockpile
Types: Landmark
When you buy a card costing at least $5, you may take it's price in debt. If you do, +3 VP.

Could have been an event (as some have mentioned), and does give the last province buy +3 free VP. But besides that, I think it'll create interesting discussions. I don't think it'll get out of hand too much: If you use this and you want to buy use this a second time, well, that's at least $15 you'd need, for 6 VP. Paying $10 for a $5 card and a duchy seems reasonable enough, but do you really want the 3VP now or build some more to get more stuff later?

Swamp
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 1 VP per Victory card you have.

Very bland, but I do think it works.

Symposium
Types: Landmark
Once per game, at any time during the Action phase, +1 Action.
At the end of the game, if you did not use that Action, +5 VP.

I like where this is going, but I don't think it's there yet.

Turtle Sanctuary
Types: Landmark
When you reshuffle, -1 VP.
At the end of your turn, if you did not reshuffle this turn, +1 VP

Clarification: -1 VP means you return one of your VP tokens to the supply. If you do not have any VP tokens, do nothing.

Slogdecks like it. That's an interesting thing.

[ConMan]

One of these entries is mine, and it's one that's getting a fair amount of mixed response (which I suspected would happen). I'm going to guess that I'll just miss out on the run-off, and failing that I don't think I have a great chance of winning, but I will definitely squirrel my idea away to tweak some of the details on because I do like the idea, as do a few other people.

[Asper]

My entry is pretty much recognized as what it is and gets what it deserves. Somebody has to do the things that have to be done. Am i giving away too much? Either way, with all the interesting submissions, i'm still curious to the voting.

Also, was there a contest before where the pre-finals winner was the finals winner? I feel most of the past contests had the order shaken up quite a bit. I wonder why that is.

[eHalcyon]

Probably the pre-finals winner is one that a lot of people think are OK, but nobody really loves a lot? I vote for like 6 entries in the poll, but when submitting scores I tend to give 10 to two entries and 0 to the rest (sometimes a 5 in there, but usually not). The score distribution isn't public so it's hard to say what's going on there.

[AdrianHealey]

Probably the pre-finals winner is one that a lot of people think are OK, but nobody really loves a lot? I vote for like 6 entries in the poll, but when submitting scores I tend to give 10 to two entries and 0 to the rest (sometimes a 5 in there, but usually not). The score distribution isn't public so it's hard to say what's going on there.

I usually rank them something like: 0/2/4/6/8/10. Sometimes a bit more/a bit less.

[mith]

Also, was there a contest before where the pre-finals winner was the finals winner? I feel most of the past contests had the order shaken up quite a bit. I wonder why that is.

Odyssey (Event 1) and Collector (Prosperity) both won as the preliminary leader. The preliminary leaders have won twice, finished second twice (by 3 and 4 points respectively, so easily could have won with one more voter), finished third twice... and then in the Seaside contest the tied leaders finished 4th and 5th in the range voting, but the other finalists were only a vote behind in the preliminaries there. Circus is the only eventual winner to have been more than two votes back of the leader in the preliminaries.

The preliminary winners have done a little better on average than the rest; still, some of the shake up is likely due to low turnout (Prosperity had the highest so far thanks to the reminder message, but still only 14 voters, vs. 30 in the preliminary).

I'll post some more stats on the range voting at some point, but Royal Guard (in the Guilds runoff) has the highest variance so far, with three 10s, a 5, and five 0s. Base winner Florist is next, with five 10s, a 4, a 2, and three 0s.

[AdrianHealey]

Ossuary (13)

    Ossuary
    Types: Landmark
    When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
    Setup: Trash a Duchy.

Burial Mounds (11)

Burial Mounds
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 3 VP per differently named card in the trash that you have a copy of.

Stockpile (11)

Stockpile
Types: Landmark
When you buy a card costing at least $5, you may take it's price in debt. If you do, +3 VP.

New World (9)

New World
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if there are 2 or fewer empty Supply piles, -4 VP for each Victory card costing $6 or more in your deck.

Symposium (8 )

    Symposium
    Types: Landmark
    Once per game, at any time during the Action phase, +1 Action.
    At the end of the game, if you did not use that Action, +5 VP.

Cenotaph (7)
Swamp (7)
Turtle Sanctuary (6)
Burial Grounds (6)
Citadel (5)
Statue (5)
Deep Mine (4)
Archeologist (3)
Golden Isles (3)
Plains (3)
Senate (3)
Middle Class (2)
Rally (1)
Sacrificial Cenote (0)


Poor Sacrificial Cenote!

[AdrianHealey]

So what do we all think of the top 5?

I am a bit uncertain on Ossuary, but I guess it's cool that in a non-trashing game, 7 dutchies are worth 4 VP each. In trashing games, I am not sure if I like it there. Coppers suddenly worth 1 vp each?

Burial Mounds; I am not sure that will have such a huge effect, right? I mean, all players will probably have very similar cards in their deck.

Stockpile is cool, but I am not sure: wouldn't the best strategy to always take the 3 vp?

New World is brutal if there is no 3 pile ending, which is cool, imo.

I like symposium the least. I would like it more if it was something like: 'set up: everyone starts with 12 vp. Give up 2 vp for +1 action during your action phase' or whatever. Like it is, it's a little too little decisionmaking/strategy, imo.

[faust]

I'm overall pleased with the finalists.

I like the idea of Ossuary, but I think it does the same thing too often:
- no trashing: Duchies are now worth 4VP. Kinda boring.
- trashing: Coppers are worth 1 VP OR Curses are now Confusions OR Estates are now worth 2VP.
It would be nice if it would result in kingdom cards being worth something more often, but I don't really see that... maybe with Rats? Or in some weird Procession game? But generally, if a kingdom card is the most common in the trash, then there aren't many copies of it around to be worth something... I feel like there's something that can be done similar to Ossuary that would work, but as it is I think it's not quite there yet.

Burial Mounds... well, it will be interesting in non-mirrors. I agree with Adrian that it's somewhat boring in mirrors, though it still does some cute things there.

I like Stockpile's concept, but I really think it should rather be an Event. It's much more rule-changing that the printed Landmarks, and it can easily be made to work as an Event.

New World looks appealing to me, but it's a kind of idea that needs thorough playtesting. My fear is that it may turn BM boards into horrific slogs. I can imagine that it could be really cool on lots of boards though.

I would like Symposium to be a little different too, like being able to transform VP chips into actions in general. It's also a bit too much rule chang-y to fit in with official Landmarks.

[trivialknot]

Several of the ones I voted for were disqualified.  Including my own.  Too bad.  Further comments on the finalists:

Ossuary - My main problem with this is that the most trashed card isn't a really competitive slot most of the time.  It's nearly always copper.  1 VP for copper is not very exciting, and I prefer the one-time 15 VP swing from Fountain.  That said, maybe there are a few exciting games where copper trashing is bad, and Estates are competing with Hermits for most trashed card.  Even then, 1 VP for Hermits vs 1 VP for Estates seems like a small impact.

Burial Mounds - As AdrianHealey pointed out, all players will probably have similar cards in their deck.  If that is the case, what can one do to get the VP?  You could lock your opponent out of getting certain cards.  You could choose a unique card, buy two, and trash one (and your opponent's response is to gain one for themselves).  Maybe there are a few other shenanigans.  It seems difficult to take advantage of though.

Stockpile - As I said before, this seems really powerful.  There's little need for greening at all, just build exponentially.  The main thing that worries me is that this will have a negative impact on the game.  I like the slow-down in the late game.  Would Stockpile simply remove that step?

New World - I liked this card a lot, because I wasn't sure what to do with it.  After more thought, I think you should first go for a few provinces--if no one went for provinces, they'd each be worth 6VP.  However, if one player takes 5 or 6 provinces, then the other player can threaten to buy out the rest, along with a few duchies, and win.  So maybe you want ~3 provinces, and then empty duchies.  It seems like it would lead to many interesting and novel strategy considerations, and that's just in a standard game.  What about 3-player games, colony games?

Symposium - Previously, I thought you would just never use the action.  I suppose in the second shuffle, if your terminals collide you might try it.  Or is it more of a late game thing, when your engine duds because you drew hunting grounds without a village?  What's the strategic impact here?  Do I open double-terminal just for this?  Do I go for a slightly less reliable and more powerful engine?  I think probably not.
(Also I don't think this counts as a pure landmark.)

[AdrianHealey]

Stockpile will see 'exponentially' building in games with very good engine pieces, but even there: you still want some greening, right? Paying 8 for 6VP (and a dead card) at some point will still be better than paying 5+<5> for 'only' 3 VP. It'll just be later than 'usual'. So this will definitely see later greening, but it's not like you won't see something equivalent to 'Dutchy dancing' in these games too, I think.

[mith]

Results:

Ossuary - 13
Burial Mounds - 11
Stockpile - 11
New World - 9
Symposium - 8
Cenotaph - 7
Swamp - 7
Burial Grounds - 6
Turtle Sanctuary - 6
Citadel - 5
Statue - 5
Deep Mine - 4
Archaeologist - 3
Golden Isles - 3
Plains - 3
Senate - 3
Middle Class - 2
Rally - 1
Sacrificial Cenote - 0

[mith]

Burial Mounds
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 3 VP per differently named card in the trash that you have a copy of.

New World
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if there are 2 or fewer empty Supply piles, -4 VP for each Victory card costing $6 or more in your deck.

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

Stockpile
Types: Landmark
When you buy a card costing at least $5, you may take it's price in debt. If you do, +3 VP.

Symposium
Types: Landmark
Once per game, at any time during the Action phase, +1 Action.
At the end of the game, if you did not use that Action, +5 VP.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I'm ashamed of my submission now. I said to myself "what can I come up with right now for the landmark contest," and I put almost no thought into it. And I ended up not voting for it.

Also, I was considering voting for swamp, but decided not to. If I had, it would be a finalist. My apologies to its designer...

PS: Why did Adrian know the voting results before Mith posted them?
EDIT: ...because the poll results are public, duh.

[ConMan]

Ha. I called it, at least regarding my own entry. Oh well, thank you to the 6 other people who voted for Cenotaph, and good luck to the finalists!

[Asper]

I'm ashamed of my submission now. I said to myself "what can I come up with right now for the landmark contest," and I put almost no thought into it. And I ended up not voting for it.

Also, I was considering voting for swamp, but decided not to. If I had, it would be a finalist. My apologies to its designer...

PS: Why did Adrian know the voting results before Mith posted them?
EDIT: ...because the poll results are public, duh.

I made up Swamp, but i also just did it because i felt: "This is so obvious, it has to be done. If nobody else does this, i will." Also, i didn't want to think too much about it, didn't have that much time back then.

I still feel Swamp is fine and will have a rather big influence on games. I'm not fully convinced that influence will always make games more fun (as it might make them sloggier), but i am under the impression that it's a fine design. Certainly better than a blank. Also, yes, it obviously looks incredibly bland, but i think that how interesting something plays isn't related to how interesting the words on it sound.

Also, i again didn't vote. Could have helped myself here. I just always feel it would be weird to vote for my own stuff, so i stay away.

[Gubump]

Burial Mounds
Types: Landmark
When scoring, 3 VP per differently named card in the trash that you have a copy of.

I like this one a lot. I hope this one wins.

New World
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if there are 2 or fewer empty Supply piles, -4 VP for each Victory card costing $6 or more in your deck.

This one is okay, I guess.

Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)
Setup: Trash a Duchy.

I also like this one, but not as much as Burial Mounds. I also learned a new word because of this.

Stockpile
Types: Landmark
When you buy a card costing at least $5, you may take it's price in debt. If you do, +3 VP.

Mith, are we allowed to change our ratings? After a second glance, I just realized that this doesn't allow infinite VP accumulation like I thought it did.

Symposium
Types: Landmark
Once per game, at any time during the Action phase, +1 Action.
At the end of the game, if you did not use that Action, +5 VP.

I don't like this one for two reasons:
1) No way to track whether you've used the Action or not.
2) It's my belief that in about 99.9999% of games, nobody will ever use that Action because it's that unlikely that +1 Action means the difference between a Province and an Estate or between a Colony and a Duchy, which means that everbody gets +5 VP, which, since it benefits everybody equally, is as good as not being there at all.

[eHalcyon]

Stockpile
Types: Landmark
When you buy a card costing at least $5, you may take it's price in debt. If you do, +3 VP.

Mith, are we allowed to change our ratings? After a second glance, I just realized that this doesn't allow infinite VP accumulation like I thought it did.

Symposium
Types: Landmark
Once per game, at any time during the Action phase, +1 Action.
At the end of the game, if you did not use that Action, +5 VP.

I don't like this one for two reasons:
1) No way to track whether you've used the Action or not.
2) It's my belief that in about 99.9999% of games, nobody will ever use that Action because it's that unlikely that +1 Action means the difference between a Province and an Estate or between a Colony and a Duchy, which means that everbody gets +5 VP, which, since it benefits everybody equally, is as good as not being there at all.

Interesting, Stockpile can provide unbounded VP tokens, though it's unlikely.  Buy card that costs $5+, take debt and VP.  Reveal Trader to not gain the $5 card.

For Symposium, I think (1) it's pretty easy to remember this one decision and (2) a single +1 action could make such a difference.  But even if it doesn't, I think the idea itself is interesting and the numbers could be tweaked to make the decision tougher, with some playtesting to determine what the appropriate number would be.

[AdrianHealey]

Generating infinite vp in stockpile is possible, but generating 10$ for 3vp + trader in hand seems like a difficult enough set up to consider it not that huge of a problem. Monument chains seem easier for the infinite vp set up.

Some more thought later. I guess I like 3/5 finalists, but would tweak each of them a little. I guess I'll give most points to the ones that needs tweaking the least in my mind or something.

[mith]

Mith, are we allowed to change our ratings?

You are absolutely allowed to change your ratings, as often as you like* until about five minutes before I post the results.

*Within reason; I reserve the right to change your ratings to random numbers if you send me a thousand edits.

[mith]

Voting here will close Friday; I'll try to get reminders out before then so we get more votes. Next contest will also be up then.