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qmech

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2016, 03:01:20 am »
+1

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Kuildeous

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #126 on: August 26, 2016, 08:29:14 am »
+1

I have a CP 23 Kingler that I'm keeping around mostly because it amuses me. I want to give it some kind of witty nickname and install it in a gym for the 30 seconds or so it typically takes for them to be taken over around here, but I don't know what to call it. Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, other people will not be able to see the nickname.  It's only visible to you.

Considering the nature of the internet (this qualifies), this is probably a very wise move.

Getting the hang of curveballs. My confirmation bias is kicking in, and I already feel like they are improving my shots. I should seriously consider running a tally so I donít sink deeper into confirmation bias.

But like I said, it adds a little fun into an otherwise boring activity. Iím sure taking on gyms will be more exciting, and I read about how the type of Pokemon is a bigger factor than CP. Now to figure out this IV stuff people are talking about.
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Kuildeous

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #127 on: August 29, 2016, 06:18:27 pm »
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All right, so this appraisal thing...

I've been reading about what it means, and I've been taking to marking as favorites those that are classified as a wonder.

But what if the CP is low for the critter? Is it still worth keeping it even though it has a high IV?

And if I have a high-CP critter (I absolutely don't) with less-than-great IV, should I make it into candy anyway?
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2016, 07:05:49 pm »
0

All right, so this appraisal thing...

I've been reading about what it means, and I've been taking to marking as favorites those that are classified as a wonder.

But what if the CP is low for the critter? Is it still worth keeping it even though it has a high IV?

And if I have a high-CP critter (I absolutely don't) with less-than-great IV, should I make it into candy anyway?

It really depends on your overall goals. High CP with low IVs could still be useful, depending on its moveset. Low CP with high IVs is going to cost a lot in candy and stardust, so likely won't be worth it, but if it's fully evolved with a good moveset, maybe it'd be one worth investing in. If you don't mind playing the long game, keep hold of those low CP/high IV pokemon and if you don't get anything better, you can level them later. If you want something good now, you're probably gonna care more about IVs. In all cases though moveset is generally more important than IVs - getting a good moveset can affect your damage output a lot more than getting good IVs will affect damage and survival.
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Kuildeous

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2016, 08:42:11 am »
0

Hmm, yes, I should pay more attention to attacks, I suppose.

So I see a lot of staples in gym defenders. What are some of the best monsters to use to attack the standard guard? I learned my Golbat tears through the three-headed egg-tree creature. Iím guessing itís mostly because of his poison versus their grass, but I suspect thereís a bigger bonus at work here. He was less than half the size of the defender.

Now I feel stagnant. I was able to powerlevel to 12 Sunday through Friday. Then I was able to jump to 18 Friday through Sunday (thanks, lucky egg Pidgie spam). Now Iím languishing at 18 with over 10k XP to go. No time to go walking around tonight either. If my wife was worried that Iíd surpass her, those fears can be put to restófor now.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2016, 09:31:43 am »
0

Hmm, yes, I should pay more attention to attacks, I suppose.

So I see a lot of staples in gym defenders. What are some of the best monsters to use to attack the standard guard? I learned my Golbat tears through the three-headed egg-tree creature. Iím guessing itís mostly because of his poison versus their grass, but I suspect thereís a bigger bonus at work here. He was less than half the size of the defender.

Now I feel stagnant. I was able to powerlevel to 12 Sunday through Friday. Then I was able to jump to 18 Friday through Sunday (thanks, lucky egg Pidgie spam). Now Iím languishing at 18 with over 10k XP to go. No time to go walking around tonight either. If my wife was worried that Iíd surpass her, those fears can be put to restófor now.

You can come play at the plaza with my wife and I this Friday/Saturday or Sunday night. We're both in KC too.
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Kuildeous

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2016, 10:36:55 am »
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You can come play at the plaza with my wife and I this Friday/Saturday or Sunday night. We're both in KC too.

We did that last Friday and Saturday night. I probably walked about 5k last weekend on the Plaza. And I never do that!

But yeah, thatís where I powerleveled from 12 to 18. So many lures. I havenít yet used any of my personal lures.

The drive home Friday was intense. We avoided getting rained on in the Plaza, but we ended up kayaking up Main Street. A couple of times I just had to floor it and skip over the water to avoid flooding.

This weekend Iíll be at the in-laws in Pittsburg. According to my wife, there are a ton of egg monsters down there. Probably not a lot of Poke Stops, so I better stock up on balls. The nephews play, so I predict more walkingójust not as lucrative as the Plaza. Maybe Iíll teach them how to Pidgie spam.
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eHalcyon

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2016, 01:34:01 pm »
0

Egg Monsters.  I've only had a couple of those, could use more so I can grow a tree.

Bug-type moves are actually strongest against Exeggutor, but the Bug-types in the game tend to be weak.  Fire and Ice are both good against Grass.

You'll want a good Grass-type to take down Vaporeon and Poliwrath.  Victreebel with Razor Leaf and Solar Beam is excellent.  Depending on your location, Venusaur or Vileplume may be more accessible.  Parasect with Solar Beam can work too.

Lapras is just generally tough, not many solid counters.  Likewise with Snorlax.  Personally, I just have to go with brute force.

Dragonite is double-weak to Ice (in Pokemon Go, that's 1.56x modifier) so Lapras with all Ice moves is best.  Other Ice-types like Cloyster and Dewgong can work well too.  Fairy-types are strong against Dragon and resist Dragon-type attacks, so Wigglytuff and Clefable can work wonders.  Dragons are also weak to Dragon, and Flying is weak to Rock.  So your own Dragonite or Rock-type pokemon with strong Rock moves are good.

What other Pokemon are standard guard in your region?




Re: IVs, I'm trying to hold out for decent IVs, but it's generally pointless because I'm not powering them up anyway, so it would actually be better for me to just pick my highest CP.  I've done that in a few cases where I have excessive candy, e.g. I've evolved about 4 poor-IV high-CP Clefairy and still have nearly 500 Clefairy Candy to spare while I wait to get a high IV one.  My current best is 17xx Clefable with Pound+Moonblast.  I call her Dragonslayer.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2016, 02:25:20 pm »
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I havenít hit that many gyms. Iguana may be able to tell us more about what defenders are common around here.

Iíve seen the three-headed egg tree a few times (even though I rarely run into the eggs in the wild). The various evolutions of Eevees are kind of popular, which makes sense considering that Eevees are almost as common as Pidgies around here.

Iíve barely qualified for the medal for fighting 10 gym battles, so Iím pretty ignorant in that regard.

I suppose Iíll look for creatures with high CPs (it seems that the arc at the top of the picture gives a graphical comparative indication of how powerful a Pokemon is) that also blow the appraiser away. Iíve got this Oddish that is 533 CP, which is pretty high on that scale. But it was captured 3 days ago (not sure what level I was but definitely lower). So even though 533 shows up as pretty high for me, it could have been higher if I was level 25 when I caught it, right? So maybe I shouldnít get too attached to this guy even though his IV is astounding?
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eHalcyon

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2016, 05:05:20 pm »
0

Vaporeon is strong.  Flareon isn't really; its CP is high but it's overinflated due to high base attack (with low defenses).  Vaporeon, other Water-types or Ground- or Rock- types will easily take it down.  Jolteon tends to be super weak; Ground-types will be effective there, but even Vaporeon (which is weak to Electric) should be able to beat Jolteon.

The arc at the top of the picture is actually a representation of the Pokemon's level, but IVs mean that a Pokemon with a higher level could still have lower CP than a Pokemon at a lower level.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #135 on: August 30, 2016, 07:05:14 pm »
0

So the only thing IV does is increase the cap on HP/level for a given pokemon? From my not-very-knowledgeable perspective I see three things affecting battles:

1) type of pokemon (strengths/weaknesses
2) strength/speed of attack (DPS for various attacks)
3) HP of pokemon

Trainer level/CP of the pokemon only increase the HP as far as I can tell. Does IV increase critical attack percentage or something like that? Or simply change the CP (practically how high of an HP a pokemon can have) caps at various trainer levels?

Like my vaporeon, for instance. I am level 21 and my vaporeon is maxed out at CP 1718 with an HP of 171. Basically, according to silph road that is slightly better than average. So with a higher IV I could theoretically have a vaporeon with like 1800 CP and 180 HP? I have the best possible move set on my vaporeon (water gun/hydro pump), and it seems like the 10 HP is somewhat negligible, or at least not enough for me to really consider ditching it for a higher IV vaporeon. Unless IV does something else as well.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #136 on: August 30, 2016, 07:19:27 pm »
0

Also, theory question.

Currently level 21. Getting to level 22 takes 75000 xp and keeps going up from there. In order to maintain a pokemon at max CP you have to upgrade it 3/4 times at most each level. Which for me right now is 3 candy/3000 stardust, I am sure I can find charts to tell me what it changes to later.

How many pokemon should I keep maxed out or do you guys think that is a waste of time? I have a Clefable and a Vaporeon with the best possible moves, but not as good an IV. To keep them maxed I will only spend 25000 candy(ish) per level, which still banks about 30000 candy per level.

Basically, I say after level 20 keeping a couple maxed out pokemon is fine. I know level 28 guys who have like 300k candy. I mean, candy is meant to be used, right? Maintaining a steady increase of candy while keeping a few maxed pokemon seems good to me. Then by level 27/28 I should be able to keep 4/5 maxed then level 30+ at least 6 probably more.

What are your candy usage strategies?

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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #137 on: August 30, 2016, 08:24:10 pm »
0

So the only thing IV does is increase the cap on HP/level for a given pokemon? From my not-very-knowledgeable perspective I see three things affecting battles:

1) type of pokemon (strengths/weaknesses
2) strength/speed of attack (DPS for various attacks)
3) HP of pokemon

Trainer level/CP of the pokemon only increase the HP as far as I can tell. Does IV increase critical attack percentage or something like that? Or simply change the CP (practically how high of an HP a pokemon can have) caps at various trainer levels?
 

Like my vaporeon, for instance. I am level 21 and my vaporeon is maxed out at CP 1718 with an HP of 171. Basically, according to silph road that is slightly better than average. So with a higher IV I could theoretically have a vaporeon with like 1800 CP and 180 HP? I have the best possible move set on my vaporeon (water gun/hydro pump), and it seems like the 10 HP is somewhat negligible, or at least not enough for me to really consider ditching it for a higher IV vaporeon. Unless IV does something else as well.


Each pokemon has three hidden IVs. HP, Defense, Attack. HP is HP and can be determined with an IV calculator. Combat Power is a metric of the Pokemon's total defense and attack stats, including the IV bonuses.

So there can be an 1800 Vaporeon with 170 hitpoints, and most often it would beat your vaporeon with 1700CP and 170 hitpoints.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #138 on: August 30, 2016, 08:31:24 pm »
0

Also, theory question.

Currently level 21. Getting to level 22 takes 75000 xp and keeps going up from there. In order to maintain a pokemon at max CP you have to upgrade it 3/4 times at most each level. Which for me right now is 3 candy/3000 stardust, I am sure I can find charts to tell me what it changes to later.

How many pokemon should I keep maxed out or do you guys think that is a waste of time? I have a Clefable and a Vaporeon with the best possible moves, but not as good an IV. To keep them maxed I will only spend 25000 candy(ish) per level, which still banks about 30000 candy per level.

Basically, I say after level 20 keeping a couple maxed out pokemon is fine. I know level 28 guys who have like 300k candy. I mean, candy is meant to be used, right? Maintaining a steady increase of candy while keeping a few maxed pokemon seems good to me. Then by level 27/28 I should be able to keep 4/5 maxed then level 30+ at least 6 probably more.

What are your candy usage strategies?

I run out of stardust far more than candy. Is that what you mean?

You should probably use the silph road to figure out which pokemon you want to invest in.

Based on this website, these are the pokemon I would invest stardust/candy into, in this order:

Dragonite, Snorlax, Lapras, Arcanine, Blastoise, Exeggutor, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Venusaur.

Anything else is probably not strong enough to warrant heavily investing stardust into, as it will max out a lower combat power, meaning that it won't be able to sit in gyms as high or defend them as well. Getting one with a high combat power IV will also help you push pokemon over 2000 Combat power, to the point where you can start putting them really high up in gyms that you can actually keep, and get pokecoins and stardust from every day.

For perspective, I'm level 27, almost 28, and my wife and I have had 9 gyms for the past week and a half. Last night we went down to 8. Tomorrow we're going to go find 2 more high level gyms and add our new 2000+ pokemon to them so that we have 10 again. We lose one gym like once a week.

And we're instinct.

Achieving this took time researching the best pokemon to power up and also the areas in our city that are the most concentrated with other instinct players willing to constantly take and retake gyms so that no one even tries to take them anymore.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #139 on: August 30, 2016, 08:33:55 pm »
0

As you can imagine, I now suck at dominion and mafia.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #140 on: August 30, 2016, 08:40:18 pm »
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As you can imagine, I now suck at dominion and mafia.

No, the root cause for this is:

And we're instinct.

You would still be good of you were Valor
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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #141 on: August 30, 2016, 09:30:29 pm »
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Valderps are the worst. I am sympathetic to mystic.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #142 on: August 30, 2016, 11:37:33 pm »
+1

Valderps are the worst. I am sympathetic to mystic.

Instinct for LYFE!
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eHalcyon

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #143 on: August 31, 2016, 01:16:15 am »
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I'm on Valor, but let's just all get along.

I've yet to see a level 10 gym in my area... I think highest I've seen is 8.  Your ability to hold a gym is going to depend a lot on what it's like around you.

Don't invest stardust into something with poor moves.  Also not sure if Blastoise should really be prioritized over Vaporeon; last I heard, Vaporeon was generally better.  Some people were even throwing out "strictly better".
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iguanaiguana

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #144 on: August 31, 2016, 05:48:18 am »
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I'm on Valor, but let's just all get along.

I've yet to see a level 10 gym in my area... I think highest I've seen is 8.  Your ability to hold a gym is going to depend a lot on what it's like around you.

Don't invest stardust into something with poor moves.  Also not sure if Blastoise should really be prioritized over Vaporeon; last I heard, Vaporeon was generally better.  Some people were even throwing out "strictly better".

Sure, based on moveset I assume. I still don't have one yet so it's somewhat a moot point for me. But yeah it's a shame how they made common stuff outclass the rare stuff.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 05:50:31 am by iguanaiguana »
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Kuildeous

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #145 on: August 31, 2016, 08:29:58 am »
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Don't invest stardust into something with poor moves. 

Iím not certain what Iím looking for here. How can I tell if a Pokemon has poor moves or not?

Do Pokemons of the same names not have similar moves? Should I have been looking at the moves before crushing them into candy?

On a happy note, I was able to powerlevel to 20. I gained about 39k XP from using the Lucky Egg and evolving like a mofo. Unfortunately, my priority was on getting to level 20, so it was not as efficient as it could have been. I evolved all my guys with 8 minutes to spare on my Lucky Egg. Clearly I need to let them build up more next time, but I wanted to hit 20 sooner than later so I can stock up on Ultra Balls before I enter the wasteland this weekend. Working on top of a Poke Stop helps.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #146 on: August 31, 2016, 09:16:58 am »
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Don't invest stardust into something with poor moves. 

Iím not certain what Iím looking for here. How can I tell if a Pokemon has poor moves or not?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-08-02-pokemon-go-moves-movesets-move-list-and-highest-dps-attacks
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eHalcyon

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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #147 on: August 31, 2016, 03:21:00 pm »
+2

Don't invest stardust into something with poor moves. 

Iím not certain what Iím looking for here. How can I tell if a Pokemon has poor moves or not?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-08-02-pokemon-go-moves-movesets-move-list-and-highest-dps-attacks

That list is probably outdated now.  Move powers sometimes change (e.g. early on, Water Gun was nerfed and Hydro Pump was buffed) and movesets can be changed as well (e.g. Gyarados can no longer have Dragon Breath, Golem now gets Mud Slap instead of Mud Shot).  Also, some moves are better for offense vs. defense.  Every Pokemon has 1-3 quick moves and like 2-3 charge moves possible, I think.  As far as anybody knows right now, it's all random and the moves get re-rolled upon evolution.

Values to note are:

- Power
- Type
- Cooldown
- Energy (gain for quick moves, cost for charge moves)

Only the first two are shown.  For the others, you've got to check online.

Power is self-explanatory.  Higher means more damage per attack.

Type matters because you get a Same Type Attack Bonus (STAB) multiplier when your Pokemon's move matches its type.  Lapras using Blizzard is better than Seadra using Blizzard, for example.  Note that STAB and type effectiveness (e.g. Water vs. Fire) are both 1.25x multipliers, which basically means that the STAB move will usually be better.  Some people online tout Gyarados with Dragon Pulse as a Dragonite counter, except that Hydro Pump will actually deal more damage to Dragonite despite Dragonite resisting Water, and that's thanks to naturally higher base damage and STAB on Hydro Pump.  I'm hoping that a future update will make it more like the games, where STAB is 1.5x and type effectiveness is 2x.  Maybe that won't carry over well to real-time battling though.

Cooldown matters in two ways.  First, it affects DPS.  A fast attack like Frost Breath has lower damage but higher DPS on offense because you can spam it so fast.  But on defense, the AI seems to attack at a consistent pace so it's better to defend a gym with the slower, stronger quick move.  Secondly, a faster attack makes it a lot easier to dodge.  With slower moves, you may be stuck in an attack animation and miss the dodge timing.

Finally, Energy gain and cost are important because they determine how often you can use your charge move, which can be extremely powerful.  Cooldown actually affects this too (energy per second from your fast attack!) and I think a lot of lists online don't factor this in, focusing on individual DPS instead.  A lot of people called it an upgrade when Golem's Mud Shot was replaced with Mud Slap due to the higher DPS of Mud Slap, but I like my legacy Golem with its fast Mud Shot that charges up Earthquake quickly.

As a general rule of thumb, you want low-cooldown fast moves for offense and high-power fast moves for defense.  You want the powerful one-bar charge moves for offense and the weak multi-bar moves for defense (this is because the AI attacks slowly but gains energy from being damaged, so it's better for them to be using the charge move as often as possible).  For example, Vaporeon with Water Pulse is best for gym defense, but the DPS on Water Pulse is actually lower than DPS of Water Gun so on offense you shouldn't use Water Pulse at all (Hydro Pump is ideal here).
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #148 on: August 31, 2016, 03:35:51 pm »
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Oh wow. Okay, thatís a lot. But you laid it out nicely, so I appreciate it.

Hmm, so perhaps the ideal Pokemon to keep would have these traits:
  • STAB
  • The best IV
  • A high CP (say, the top quarter of the arc?)


And then if the fast move is quick, use it on offense; otherwise put it on defense.
And if the charge move is cheap to reach, then that also is good for defense.

Does that overly simplified assessment sound about right?

I had no idea that moves would vary among the type. Iíve not been looking at those at all.

I canít wait to tell my wife. This goes beyond simple button-mashing. I need to give her good news because sheís going to be annoyed that I power-leveled to 20. Thatís the same level sheís at. I may even surpass her with my at-work Poke Stops and lucky evolutions.
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Re: pokemon go
« Reply #149 on: August 31, 2016, 04:25:11 pm »
+3

I think what you should take away from everything eHalcyon said is that we are playing a very flawed game and we'd better all hope it gets improved soon : )
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