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[GendoIkari]

So a few questions here; dealing more with why things are how they are, rather than what the rules are.

So, according to the rule book, Duration cards stay out unti the last turn in which they do something. But, according to common usage, and the way many people mistakingly think of them, Duration cards stay out until the end of the turn after you played them.

So when there is a difference between the two:

• When you play Tactician as the last card in your hand... you discard no cards, so you don't do anything special next turn.
  
• When you play Haven as the last card in your hand, with no cards in your deck... Haven has no card to take into your hand next turn, so you don't keep it out. (I'm pretty sure about this... but can someone confirm?)

Is there any other possible time that a Duration will get cleaned up the turn it is played?

I don't understand Outpost either. Outpost stays out the turn you play it, right? Why? It doesn't do anything the turn after you play it. It changes what you do for THIS turn's cleanup, but it doesn't do anything next turn.

Finally, and this one's maybe a question for Donald... is there a reason why the Duration cards stay out "until the last turn that they do something" instead of just "until the end of your next turn"? At first I thought that there might be some issue with having to remember "when did I play that card?" but that issue exists currently as well; you just have to note or move Duration cards that need to now be cleaned up. Since it's extremely rarely advantageous to play a Tactician with no other cards in hand, I doubt the rule was written that was just for that edge case. Were you originally planning on making Duration cards that did things for more than 2 turns?

[Donald X.]

I don't understand Outpost either. Outpost stays out the turn you play it, right? Why? It doesn't do anything the turn after you play it. It changes what you do for THIS turn's cleanup, but it doesn't do anything next turn.

Finally, and this one's maybe a question for Donald... is there a reason why the Duration cards stay out "until the last turn that they do something" instead of just "until the end of your next turn"? At first I thought that there might be some issue with having to remember "when did I play that card?" but that issue exists currently as well; you just have to note or move Duration cards that need to now be cleaned up. Since it's extremely rarely advantageous to play a Tactician with no other cards in hand, I doubt the rule was written that was just for that edge case. Were you originally planning on making Duration cards that did things for more than 2 turns?

Outpost does something after it would otherwise be discarded. So it stays out because it's still doing something. To discard it we'd either be discarding it when it still had stuff left to do, or we'd be having a second clean-up. Outpost would have been simpler if you could have drawn a normal hand and then discarded at the start of your next turn, but testing on that started too late and initial results were that it was too powerful without some other change.

My general rule in all games for tracking stuff that happens in the future is, leave the card out until the end of the last turn it did anything. So that's what I did here. It keeps me covered for future cards, and at the time it seemed like there might be a duration card here and there in future sets. There isn't because they ended up requiring so much rulebook space.

Originally I was going to have some cards that did something until your next turn, e.g. "cards cost $1 more until your next turn," which was an earlier version of Cutpurse. Valerie didn't like that precisely because it was cleaned up at a different time (on the previous player's turn). I figured out the trick to doing them, which was to also have an ability that functioned on your next turn, and that's what Lighthouse does. I didn't go back to the previous Cutpurse though. You could argue that "cards cost $1 more until your next turn" also applies in the clean-up of that previous turn and well that did not come up.

The other weird thing about the duration card rules is the expression "played or modified" in the rule explaining that Thrones and King's Courts that played duration cards stay out. At the time Alchemy had a card that was like, "play a card from your hand, adding 2 to numbers in its text."

[GendoIkari]

Thanks a bunch for the explanations!

At the time Alchemy had a card that was like, "play a card from your hand, adding 2 to numbers in its text."

Ha, just a couple days ago I was trying to think if a card could work that would say something like "while this is in play, add 1 to all numbers on action cards you play."

[Thisisnotasmile]

The other weird thing about the duration card rules is the expression "played or modified" in the rule explaining that Thrones and King's Courts that played duration cards stay out. At the time Alchemy had a card that was like, "play a card from your hand, adding 2 to numbers in its text."

I've never really understood the "played or modified" wording. At the end of the day, we all know that this just means "doubled/tripled by TR/KC", and that's fine, it's been played AND modified by TR/KC. But then you have stuff like Golem pulling durations. The Golem doesn't stay out in this case even though it played the cards. I'd be much happier if the rule was that only cards which modify durations stay out with them, and not cards that play durations, because that's actually how it goes. I mean, I completely understand what the rule is, but I don't really feel that the wording used is quite right.

And a slightly unrelated note is that other than "it's not a Seaside card", I've never really seen why Possession isn't a duration card. It hasn't done everything it's going to do until you've finished your turn and the player to your left has taken an extra turn with you telling them what to do, so surely it shouldn't be cleaned up before then? It's the only card in the game that I can think of which can cause a situation where you need to remember what has previously happened (other than, for example, remembering if you took $1 or +Buy from a Pawn) with no record available to look back over. For example, if I KC a Possession, I then have to clean them up and Possess my left-hand-neighbour. I then have to remember that I KC'd the Possession to Possess him again, and then finally once more, and during this there is not a KC and Possession left out on the table to remind me what I am doing.

[AJD]

And a slightly unrelated note is that other than "it's not a Seaside card", I've never really seen why Possession isn't a duration card. It hasn't done everything it's going to do until you've finished your turn and the player to your left has taken an extra turn with you telling them what to do, so surely it shouldn't be cleaned up before then? It's the only card in the game that I can think of which can cause a situation where you need to remember what has previously happened (other than, for example, remembering if you took $1 or +Buy from a Pawn) with no record available to look back over.

I agree with you in principle here. But: Smugglers. (Also, though this is an odd case, Mining Village–Mining Village–Conspirator, I guess.)

[Donald X.]

I've never really understood the "played or modified" wording.

I could have been slightly clearer here. Originally Alchemy had a *reaction* that added 2 to numbers in a card's text (later I changed it to an action that played the card). So that's why it says "or modified."

And a slightly unrelated note is that other than "it's not a Seaside card", I've never really seen why Possession isn't a duration card.

That is the reason, yes. And it got to be that way because originally there were no duration cards, there were just cards that did something in the future and a rule to handle tracking for them. When I made them orange, Possession stopped staying out, and I needed a rule to keep Throne Room out. Ideally Throne Room would be orange but well it isn't.