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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?  (Read 13681 times)

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FishingVillage

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Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« on: July 01, 2016, 02:49:18 pm »
+4


Wedding is a powerful event, but it also taught me the value of being able to divide the cost of a card over multiple turns, and made me less apprehensive about the super high debt cost of certain cards in empires.

I think Wedding could've not had the +1 VP rider along with gaining the Gold, and it would still be a great deal at $4 and 3 debt. I think Wedding could've been a straight up $7 for a Gold and +1 VP, and while that might seem like an iffy choice sometimes I'd still go for it over Duchies until the game starts looking like it'll end soon. But having the choice to put off some of the cost (minimum $4), and to get a Gold that comes with a VP which doesn't clog your deck? This thing is insane.

As long as the board doesn't have something which demands my immediate attention, I'm usually happy to use Wedding at the start of the game. A 5/2 or 4/3 split would be the most ideal opening, as I'd end up with a Gold in my deck by turn 3 and +1 VP on the side, which is quite nice. A 3/4 split isn't completely disastrous though; I'd still use Wedding on my second play and deal with the debt cost next turn.

Going into mid game, I'm very happy to flood my deck with Gold that come with VPs as often as I can. I guess the question is if Gold and 1VP over two turns is better or worse than whatever else one can get on the board, but the choices that beat that are probably very few.

And then going into late game and greening... I mean I've been flooding myself with Gold this entire time, and I probably don't have much else taking up space in my deck, mostly thanks to debt actually. My chances of getting a hand with 3 or more Gold will be pretty high, so even nasty attackers will have some trouble stopping me from brute forcing my way to Provinces.

I'm curious how strong Wedding is in a game involving Platinum and Colonies though. Do I still want to go deep on Wedding, then ratchet up to Plats and Colonies? Or can I actually flood myself with Gold so quickly that I'll deplete the Province pile before anyone else can get enough of a lead with Colonies?

So anyways...
- Do you think the Wedding is event is good?
- If Wedding is in the game and you plan to use it, how long will you use it before you stop?
- What other cards work well with Wedding? When do you find the turns to go for these cards over Wedding?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:51:25 pm by FishingVillage »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 04:36:05 pm »
+3

What I think is I haven't even played with this card
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 04:39:05 pm »
0

What I think is I haven't even played with this card
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schadd

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 06:01:27 pm »
+7

verdict: i will start a thread each day starting july 17th that has some group of empires paraphernalia. hopefully by then many of us will have played about one game with most of them. we will probably discuss them again later.


see you then, everybody

many people wanted to hold off on the empires threads, and also i claimed them
that said, i mean, discuss what you want to, man. wedding is cool
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DG

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 06:59:54 pm »
+3

Simulator suggests that for a treasure based deck, buying wedding instead of silvers will give you a 70-30 advantage over someone who doesn't. Longer games (like purely treasures) will give a bigger advantage for weddings and faster games will give less advantage.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 07:01:27 pm by DG »
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FishingVillage

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 07:35:20 pm »
0

Simulator suggests that for a treasure based deck, buying wedding instead of silvers will give you a 70-30 advantage over someone who doesn't. Longer games (like purely treasures) will give a bigger advantage for weddings and faster games will give less advantage.
That seems about right. I think in general I'd rather have 1 Gold added to my deck instead of 2 Silvers.
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Seprix

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 07:44:19 pm »
0

Simulator suggests that for a treasure based deck, buying wedding instead of silvers will give you a 70-30 advantage over someone who doesn't. Longer games (like purely treasures) will give a bigger advantage for weddings and faster games will give less advantage.
That seems about right. I think in general I'd rather have 1 Gold added to my deck instead of 2 Silvers.

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold for money density.
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JW

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 08:19:32 pm »
+1

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold for money density.

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold at increasing (total coins / total cards) if and only if your (total coins / total cards) after getting 1 Gold is still less than 1. The way to see this is that, for the purpose of increasing (total coins / total cards), 2 Silver is equivalent to 1 Gold + 1 Copper.

Of course, (total coins / total cards) isn't everything, but that's a different subject.
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trivialknot

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2016, 08:33:20 pm »
+3

Fun fact: Travelling Fair and Wedding nearly cancel each other out.
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papadjango

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2016, 01:24:51 pm »
0

My first game with Empires had "Wedding" as event. Nobody in our 3-person round could resist to use it sometimes. I think it's one of the few events you had to use early; otherwise you get behind very soon. Not sure if it's a good buy in mid-game. Time will show.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 12:04:51 pm »
+3

Thanks for the write-up FishingVillage, altough I heavily disagree with your conclusions ;)

To me it seems you are just overrating Gold in general, maybe you played with the Base set a long time? That's usually the reason when people think Gold is so strong.

For example, it's pretty rare I would want to open with Gold, certainly Gold/nothing is terrible on a large majority of boards. Maybe it's sometimes ok to buy on turn2? Time will tell.

Otherwise, I don't think the Event will change the game much. Sure, it's a bit easier to pick up golds in money games, but I doubt one would throw out many engines in favour of a Wedding strategy. The VP is neat, let's you build a little more in money games but that's about it in my opinion
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Limetime

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 12:55:02 pm »
+2

Thanks for the write-up FishingVillage, altough I heavily disagree with your conclusions ;)

To me it seems you are just overrating Gold in general, maybe you played with the Base set a long time? That's usually the reason when people think Gold is so strong.

For example, it's pretty rare I would want to open with Gold, certainly Gold/nothing is terrible on a large majority of boards. Maybe it's sometimes ok to buy on turn2? Time will tell.

Otherwise, I don't think the Event will change the game much. Sure, it's a bit easier to pick up golds in money games, but I doubt one would throw out many engines in favour of a Wedding strategy. The VP is neat, let's you build a little more in money games but that's about it in my opinion
Gold nothing I'd probably better in a engine with little to no trashing than silver silver.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2016, 01:18:44 pm »
0

Thanks for the write-up FishingVillage, altough I heavily disagree with your conclusions ;)

To me it seems you are just overrating Gold in general, maybe you played with the Base set a long time? That's usually the reason when people think Gold is so strong.

For example, it's pretty rare I would want to open with Gold, certainly Gold/nothing is terrible on a large majority of boards. Maybe it's sometimes ok to buy on turn2? Time will tell.

Otherwise, I don't think the Event will change the game much. Sure, it's a bit easier to pick up golds in money games, but I doubt one would throw out many engines in favour of a Wedding strategy. The VP is neat, let's you build a little more in money games but that's about it in my opinion
Gold nothing I'd probably better in a engine with little to no trashing than silver silver.
That also makes it much easier to spike higher costs early. I think you (drsteelhammer) are severely underestimating Wedding
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2016, 01:31:50 pm »
0

Thanks for the write-up FishingVillage, altough I heavily disagree with your conclusions ;)

To me it seems you are just overrating Gold in general, maybe you played with the Base set a long time? That's usually the reason when people think Gold is so strong.

For example, it's pretty rare I would want to open with Gold, certainly Gold/nothing is terrible on a large majority of boards. Maybe it's sometimes ok to buy on turn2? Time will tell.

Otherwise, I don't think the Event will change the game much. Sure, it's a bit easier to pick up golds in money games, but I doubt one would throw out many engines in favour of a Wedding strategy. The VP is neat, let's you build a little more in money games but that's about it in my opinion
Gold nothing I'd probably better in a engine with little to no trashing than silver silver.
That also makes it much easier to spike higher costs early. I think you (drsteelhammer) are severely underestimating Wedding
Gold gets progressively worse as the game goes on.
At the beginning it is not worse than curse.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2016, 01:46:10 pm »
0

Keep in mind Donald has said that the majority of players (including experienced ones) tend to overestimate the power of gaining Gold.  I think Wedding makes Gold more relevant, but it shouldn't make Gold automatic.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 04:57:49 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2016, 02:49:50 pm »
+2

I agree with drsteelhammer. Opening Wedding is not that great. There are a lot key cards that appear on the majority of the boards that cost - that you want to open with: trashers, attack cards, gainers. And even when you want to open Silver/Silver to hit that key , I probably still open Silver/Silver because it gives me the chance in hitting twice. It's probably only better if you want a key like Altar early. Wedding makes the biggest difference in games where you trash down pretty heavily and then draw your deck and want to add economy as fast as you can. Skipping Silver then makes a big difference.

DG

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2016, 04:15:23 pm »
0

Simulator suggests that buying a turn 1 wedding increase your win rate by 10% when playing a witch + big money mirror. Even a turn 2 wedding is better than silver.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2016, 04:57:16 pm »
+1

Simulator suggests that buying a turn 1 wedding increase your win rate by 10% when playing a witch + big money mirror. Even a turn 2 wedding is better than silver.

OK, but that's Big Money.  It's not a revelation that Wedding, a way to get Gold more easily, would help Big Money strategies.
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2016, 06:27:24 pm »
+5

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold for money density.

if only there were some event that could take a deck with high money density and give it a bunch of silvers
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2016, 06:31:59 pm »
+8

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold for money density.

if only there were some event that could take a deck with high money density and give it a bunch of silvers

That sounds cool, but what it really needs is a way to attack the opponents as well.
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 07:22:02 am »
+1

Simulator suggests that for a treasure based deck, buying wedding instead of silvers will give you a 70-30 advantage over someone who doesn't. Longer games (like purely treasures) will give a bigger advantage for weddings and faster games will give less advantage.
That seems about right. I think in general I'd rather have 1 Gold added to my deck instead of 2 Silvers.

Two Silvers is better than 1 Gold for money density.
Golds are good for spiking Provinces.

Consider a single card giving $8 vs 5 Silvers (giving $10) and think about which you'd rather want.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 07:58:56 am »
0

Would depend on what I want to buy and how frequent, no? And the other cards ib my deck, etc.
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 10:04:09 am »
+6

Wedding is better than a lot of people are giving it credit for. Opening Wedding / nothing is usually bad, yeah. Opening, like, Forager / Wedding though? That's kind of cool. Steward / Wedding? Hell yeah.

If this is on the board and I'm thinning, why would I even get a Silver? I'm already not buying a lot of things during those thinning turns, so I barely care about the debt, but now I have Gold and some points for economy. Sometimes there are boards where you really want Gold and never ever want to get that Silver (limited draw and payload, discard attack BM, etc) and Wedding helps there. I do wish it was 3+4d though...
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schadd

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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 05:29:10 pm »
+1

i think that it is way more appealing on turn 2 than turn 1
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Re: Let's Discuss Empire Events: Wedding?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2016, 06:25:38 pm »
0

i think that it is way more appealing on turn 2 than turn 1

Use your Baker token to get Legionary turn 1, then Borrow to get Wedding turn 2
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