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[GendoIkari]

I played this Kingdom IRL last night with Jonts and a guy who has only played a few games of Dominion.





With no real villages other than Madman around, we all knew that Throne Room would be important. And of course Masquerade. But we couldn't decide if Torturer was worth it with Masquerade available. Jonts and I both opened / and got Haggler/nothing. Other guy got double Masquerade, which collided for him on turn 3.

Anyway, my turn 3 hand was exactly again with no Haggler, so I got another Haggler. Somehow, I managed to get 5 of the Throne Rooms, but got some sad draws that had things like 3 Throne Rooms and a Haggler. Jonts built up a scary engine by Throne Rooming Markets, and started getting Torturers. The Curses were definitely coming out a bit faster than Masquerade could handle.

At one point I had with Haggler and an extra buy, and should have bought a Province given that it was a 3 player game, but instead got Market + Throne Room, then Masquerade and was forced to take a ... so I reluctantly got a Secret Chamber.

So towards the end... At this point, other guy had 1 Provinces and a couple curses, I had 3 curses and a couple Estates because my Masquerades weren't getting played enough. And I have a hand that's not going to do much at all; Secret Chamber, Market, Masquerade; something like that. Jonts gets a particularly good turn that involved at least 3 Torturer plays, and generated for 2 Provinces, while 2 piles were already gone. He couldn't quite drain a third pile though.

But then it happens... I reveal Secret Chamber to his Torturer play. Draw 2 cards, including a Throne Room; put Secret Chamber and something else back. Now suddenly my crap hand is a potentially good hand. On my turn I Throne Room the Market, play Masquerade, then play my only Madman (that I didn't even want, but couldn't afford to buy anything the turn that I played Hermit). Everything kicks off. I end up playing Masq enough to get rid of all Curses; I generate with 2 Hagglers is play. Buy 2 Provinces and 2 Estates; easily draining another pile for the win.

So Secret Chamber won me the game. 

My question is; is Torturer a thing here?

[shark_bait]

First off, nice work with the 3-player.

I would open Hermit/Masquerade here.  The thing about Torturer in this game, is that it is not worth it until you can reliably draw and play your entire deck each turn.  That requires extensive trashing with both Hermit/Masquerade followed by good Throne Room paired with other +action.  A random Torturer play here and there won't do much.  However a sustained 2-3 Torturers per turn after an initial build could be devastating.  You don't want to be in a stage where when you add your 2 Torturers and then you can no longer support the play of all your actions.  A Haggler would be helpful in this build phase as you can add a Throne Room in conjunction with your Torturer.  Oasis is a nice gain with Hermit as it provides lubrication to your deck for ensuring your Throne Rooms have an ideal target.

[Polk5440]

Seems like you are going to want Torturer for sure at some point if you commit to building the engine by opening Haggler/nothing, if only for the draw.

[jonts26]

I did not want to open 5/2 here. Masq/hermit seems like a solid open. I had just gotten to the point of playing multiple tortureres per turn when the gamer ended  3p piles run fast

[Dingan]

I definitely want Masq/- on 5/2.  If you get lucky with Haggler early it gets you... Market/Masq?  Throne/Masq?  These things are Ok but I'd rather just start playing Masq asap.  In general (obviously, some exceptions apply), the better your deck is, the better Haggler is.  Kind of like HoP and Outpost.  So early Hags are only good when there are many key <$5 cards that you want, but don't necessarily need in the first shuffle or 2.  But yeah, Masq is just so so good.

[DG]

Given how torturer and masq work in multiplayer, which isn't the same as in two player, torturer is a reasonable card. I would however pick masquerade as the card to open with here based on the deck construction over the next few turns.