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Author Topic: How high can you go  (Read 9141 times)

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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2016, 07:32:21 pm »
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Im getting a handsize of 4014, with half of the cards being Victory cards (but they can be Harems):
Start with
33 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->64 cards, 4 actions
Crossroads ->126 cards, 3 actions
Crossroads ->252 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->504 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->1004 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->2008 cards, 1 action
Crossroads -> 4014 cards, 0 actions (2007 of the cards are Victory cards)
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Deadlock39

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2016, 07:33:33 pm »
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Im getting a handsize of 4014, with half of the cards being Victory cards (but they can be Harems):
Start with
33 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->64 cards, 4 actions
Crossroads ->126 cards, 3 actions
Crossroads ->252 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->504 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->1004 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->2008 cards, 1 action
Crossroads -> 4014 cards, 0 actions (2007 of the cards are Victory cards)

I don't think you can play 6 Haunted Woods and Tactician with 6 Actions, so you should start with 3

Also, I had Great Halls, and Royal Blacksmith to get 4 more of any card in hand, but ~2000 Harems is probably better than 4 of whatever you want.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:36:22 pm by Deadlock39 »
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eHalcyon

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2016, 07:34:52 pm »
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Aaaand OK, things make more sense now.  I misread Deadlock's post as meaning 500+ cards at the start of the turn with just Crossroads + Haunted Woods.
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liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2016, 07:35:55 pm »
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I think the largest finite amount of action you can get (provided there is draw) is 6: Tactician, Crossroads, 2 Necropolis
This is what I have too, and with two necros on the setup turn the maximum hand size before playing any cards is 29, yes?
I think it's 33 (5 normal, 5 tactician, 18 from 6 haunted woods, 4 from opponent's Council Rooms, 1 from Save)
Quote
Oh, the opponent should probably play Swamp Hags on his turn, not Council Rooms. He can play 4 Swamp Hags, if we want the acting player to have 6 actions, so that would add 4 gains for every buy.
Actually believe it or not I believe the starting hand size is more important
Yeah, I jsut figured that out as well
I think you can only play 5 haunted woods because you need to play tactician too. But I forgot about save. 30 it is then. I have to start over every time this happens... and I still haven't figured out how to optimize the buy phase either.

I am getting a 7-digit max hand size in the end, but I do have one strategy that has not been mentioned in the thread yet. If you can come up with that then the rest of my solution is already put together in the thread pretty much.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:37:26 pm by liopoil »
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Deadlock39

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2016, 07:39:34 pm »
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I am getting a 7-digit max hand size in the end, but I do have one strategy that has not been mentioned in the thread yet. If you can come up with that then the rest of my solution is already put together in the thread pretty much.

Hmmmm, yep, that is a few orders of magnitude higher, I don't see any cards that get me there at first glance...

Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2016, 07:39:41 pm »
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So that is 30 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->58 cards, 4 actions
Crossroads ->114 cards, 3 actions
Crossroads ->226 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->450 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->896 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->1788 cards, 1 action
Crossroads -> 3574 cards, 0 actions (1787 of the cards are Victory cards).


However, we can start with 33 cards, since the opponent bought a Mission and played 3 more council rooms.
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Deadlock39

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2016, 07:48:11 pm »
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So that is 30 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->58 cards, 4 actions
Crossroads ->114 cards, 3 actions
Crossroads ->226 cards, 2 actions
Crossroads ->450 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->896 cards, 1 action
Necropolis, Crossroads ->1788 cards, 1 action
Crossroads -> 3574 cards, 0 actions (1787 of the cards are Victory cards).


However, we can start with 33 cards, since the opponent bought a Mission and played 3 more council rooms.

Can you also buy a bunch of Expeditions on your previous turn for more cards?

But then you can buy even more Expeditions on this turn, and then even more the next turn and....

liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2016, 07:50:56 pm »
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Why didn't the opponent play tactician as well as buy mission so that they can play 4 council rooms?

How are we saving something if we played tactician? We also don't have any money to buy expeditions or save for that matter.

Oh wait, oops, expedition is broken anyway. It lets us build up progressively larger hand sizes forever, so that can't work.
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2016, 07:52:59 pm »
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The opponent doesn't play Council rooms. he plays 3 Swindlers+tactician, buys Mission, then plays 4 more  Swindlers. He trashes 7 of our cultists, we draw 21 cards.

This gives us a starting hand size of 47.
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Deadlock39

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2016, 07:54:53 pm »
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Why didn't the opponent play tactician as well as buy mission so that they can play 4 council rooms?

They need an action to play Tactician, so they can only play 7 Council Rooms across the 2 turns.

How are we saving something if we played tactician? We also don't have any money to buy expeditions or save for that matter.

I think you are right, we can't save.

The opponent doesn't play Council rooms. he plays 3 Swindlers+tactician, buys Mission, then plays 4 more  Swindlers. He trashes 7 of our cultists, we draw 21 cards.

This gives us a starting hand size of 47.

Cultist can draw non-terminally, and can give an unlimited handsize

Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2016, 07:55:46 pm »
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Oh, I guess you're right we cant save after tactician. Money is no issue though, we played some harems.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2016, 07:57:04 pm »
+1

I have no idea what is going on here.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:10:00 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2016, 08:02:14 pm »
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Oh no, could we possess our opponent five times and play 15 council rooms?
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2016, 08:04:06 pm »
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Ok, opponent plays 6 council rooms, 1 urchin , we set aside 11 Horse Traders. Then he plays another Council room. We have 23 cards, 11 of which are horse Traders. We draw 15 from Haunted Woods + 5 from tactician. That's 43 cards, 42 after we cellar away the Horse Traders for something useful.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:06:39 pm by Watno »
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2016, 08:04:33 pm »
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Oh no, could we possess our opponent five times and play 15 council rooms?
But then we can't play huanted woods or Tactician.
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-Stef-

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2016, 08:07:17 pm »
+3

Oh no, could we possess our opponent five times and play 15 council rooms?

No, you can't use Possesison. Possession + Councilroom + Crossroads is enough to get to any number.
(you play 2 possessions, in their 2 turns they play 4, then they make you play 8, ...)
You can use Mission and Outpost though, to make them have 3 turns before it's yours again.



I'm currently sitting at 265843082805650 coins. I guess I could use them to overpay for Masterpiece, but there has to be something more advanced.
Also there might be a mistake, but I don't think so. Anyway, time to sleep :)
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liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2016, 08:08:08 pm »
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Oh no, could we possess our opponent five times and play 15 council rooms?
But then we can't play huanted woods or Tactician.
Oh right, forgot how turn-order worked with Possession.

Ok, opponent plays 6 council rooms, 1 urchin , we set aside 11 Horse Traders. Then he plays another Council room. We have 23 cards, 11 of which are horse Traders. We draw 15 from Haunted Woods + 5 from tactician. That's 43 cards, 42 after we cellar away the Horse Traders for something useful.
I think I will just do my solution with 29 cards at this point and we can adjust this bit later. Even though the difference is probably a full order of magnitude.
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2016, 08:10:35 pm »
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I think I found a potentially better way for the payoff: Hand is 1 Cellar, rest is tunnels. We Discard all the tunnels, draw 1 cellar and tunnels. iterate. This converts n+1 cards in hand into n*(n-1)/2 gains.

Ok, bought just playing banks gives the same amount of coins, and we are already converting 1 coin into more than 1 buy, so this isn't good.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:13:29 pm by Watno »
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-Stef-

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2016, 08:12:50 pm »
+2

I'm currently sitting at 265843082805650 coins.

oh zut. I just realized I can get way higher. How am I supposed to sleep now? :(
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liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2016, 08:16:33 pm »
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I'm currently sitting at 265843082805650 coins.

oh zut. I just realized I can get way higher. How am I supposed to sleep now? :(
Wow, and that's already 15 digits. I'm not done yet, but I'm expecting to end with 14-16 digits too. I'm not using masterpiece though... so probably you have found something else.

Stef, how sure are you that this will end up staying under the number of atoms in the universe? I am not so sure anymore.
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2016, 08:18:29 pm »
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You should be able to add Highway to make Cache free since it shouldn't be able to increase hand size.  This gives you 3 gains for each Cache buy, which costs $2 via Travelling Fair.  With Banquet, you only gain 5 cards for $5 (Banquet + $2 for the buy).

This is the best coin to gains conversion we have atm i think.
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eHalcyon

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2016, 08:24:38 pm »
+1

I'm currently sitting at 265843082805650 coins. I guess I could use them to overpay for Masterpiece, but there has to be something more advanced.
Also there might be a mistake, but I don't think so. Anyway, time to sleep :)

liopoil was getting 1.5 cards per $1 with Highway+Death Cart+Travelling Fair.

But here's an improvement: 3 cards per $1 via Doctor+Hunting Grounds.
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2016, 08:26:00 pm »
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You can use Mission and Outpost though, to make them have 3 turns before it's yours again.
So that lets them play 9 Council rooms, urchin, Council Room, giving us 14 Horse Traders to set aside. Then we have 29 cards(14 of which are Horse Traders) + 20 from haunted Wood+tactician.
So 48 cards after cellaring the Horse traders.
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liopoil

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2016, 08:28:54 pm »
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You can use Mission and Outpost though, to make them have 3 turns before it's yours again.
So that lets them play 9 Council rooms, urchin, Council Room, giving us 14 Horse Traders to set aside. Then we have 29 cards(14 of which are Horse Traders) + 20 from haunted Wood+tactician.
So 48 cards after cellaring the Horse traders.
I don't think that you can use outpost and mission. Mission specifies the previous turn not being yours and outpost can't let you take more than two consecutive turns. What happens if they play outpost and buy mission in the same turn?

I suppose we can't use outpost/mission ourselves right, since that would count as a separate turn?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:30:25 pm by liopoil »
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Watno

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Re: How high can you go
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2016, 08:31:36 pm »
+1

I'm currently sitting at 265843082805650 coins. I guess I could use them to overpay for Masterpiece, but there has to be something more advanced.
Also there might be a mistake, but I don't think so. Anyway, time to sleep :)

liopoil was getting 1.5 cards per $1 with Highway+Death Cart+Travelling Fair.

But here's an improvement: 3 cards per $1 via Doctor+Hunting Grounds.
9 cards for $1 provided you have a Watchtower in hand: Play 5 Highways, spend every $ overpaying 1 for Stonemason, gaining 2 Hunting Grounds, and trashing each of them for 3 estates.
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