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[Aardvark]

Assume that there is an expensive card that you want to get asap (typically Goons, sometimes Kings court), but you dont really want many silvers in you deck and there are no desirable terminal silver alternatives. How many silvers would you buy to increase the chance to get enought money for the expensive card?

Situation I: Kingdom: Goons, Menagerie, Hamlet and some crap.

I open Silver/Silver and then hit 5/5 on turns 3/4. What should I buy? Should I get a Silver to increase my chance to get to 6 in the next reshuffle? Or two? Or rather invest in Menageries and hope not to get stucked below 6 again in the next shuffle? If my opponent bought Goons on turn 4, would it change my decision? 

Situation II: Add Loan to the scenario above. How would you open and what would you buy on turns 3/4, assuming less than 6 coins on both?

Thanks for your ideas

[rrenaud]

Your initial question and your situation don't really agree.  For most of the game (just not the beginning), even without great combos/counters, I'd want a menagerie over a Silver (or a terminal Silver).  But in your scenario, Menagerie is also a counter to Goons, and it has synergy with Hamlet.  I'd get 2 or maybe 3 silvers max, and then load up on Menageries and an occasional Hamlet with <$6 buys. 

Pimping the currently unloved http://councilroom.com/supply_win a bit,



1.28 win rate per gain is obscene on a $3.  The unconditional win rate per gain on Grand Market is only 1.19.

[Lekkit]

With both Hamlet and Menagerie, I wouldn't mind getting more silvers. Probably not more than three or four, though. With the Hamlet discard, you'll easily get through to what you want later when you start to use them. Getting the Goons first would be my priority (not sure it's the right one, though). If my opponent would buy a goons on turn 3 or 4 I would buy Menagerie to have a chance to counterdraw his Goons. Assuming that you haven't reshuffled yet.

[HiveMindEmulator]

In general the answer is 2-3. In this particular situation, it's likely to be 3, since you need to hit $6, and hamlet+menag can't help you that much in getting there off 2 silvers. You need either silver+4xcopper or 2xsilver+2xcopper. The former has 4 of the same card, making menag an ineffective helper, and the latter is tough with only 2 silvers in your deck. Now, if there were wishing well, which would help get to silver+4xcopper, I might opt to stop at 2 silvers.

That said, in this scenario, I probably would have opened hamlet/silver or even hamlet/hamlet, hoping to parlay the hamlet(s) into a double-hamlet turn to win the hamlet race, which figures to be crucial here.

[Aardvark]

I know the first question is too general, my focus was on those two particular situations (or similar situations mostly including Goons) and whenether to go beyond 2 silvers there, or stop at 2. The first paragraph was more of an introduction.

Hamlet/Silver to get majority of Hamlets seems interesting, but I would expect it to have harsh time geting to 6 after the opponents goons start hitting. But maybe I'm completely wrong here, thats why I brought the topic :-).

[chwhite]

Menagerie/Goons/Hamlet is a prime example of a deck that really wants as few Silvers as possible, especially if there's no trashing to speed you up later.  I'm not getting more than 2 no matter what; if you don't reach $6 buy Hamlets and Menageries; the Goons will come later once you set up a deck that can get the Menageries to consistently hit (and your opponents' Goons will only make it *easier* for the Menageries to hit, which is why grabbing your share of the support cards first is so important).

And there's usually something else you can add to improve your lot; even something like Navigator instead of one of the Silvers would be a big help here.

As for scenario two: YES take the Loan.  Open Loan/Silver equivalent; you'll probably need a second Silver-equivalent (and I'd prefer a terminal Silver action if one's available) at some point but grabbing Hamlets and Menageries needs to still be a priority.

[chwhite]

Your initial question and your situation don't really agree.  For most of the game (just not the beginning), even without great combos/counters, I'd want a menagerie over a Silver (or a terminal Silver).  But in your scenario, Menagerie is also a counter to Goons, and it has synergy with Hamlet.  I'd get 2 or maybe 3 silvers max, and then load up on Menageries and an occasional Hamlet with <$6 buys. 

Pimping the currently unloved http://councilroom.com/supply_win a bit,



1.28 win rate per gain is obscene on a $3.  The unconditional win rate per gain on Grand Market is only 1.19.

1.28 is much lower than I expected, to be honest.   Menagerie is pretty obscene to begin with, and this is an especially strong situation for it.  I guess there are too many mirror matches for it to be much better; the win rate without has got to be truly abysmal.