Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality  (Read 18539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 12:32:48 pm »
+6

First experience with enchantress: we had a great time and awesome blt sandwiches.

Reality: I woke up next to a pig. What gives?
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2016, 12:50:01 pm »
0

To answer the questions "how is my opinion avolving since the release of adventures online"
- The travelers are not as strong as I thought : you almost always want to take a page and a peasant, but not always for the last card in the chain. They don't dominate the game the way rebuild or cultist could. And the warrior pin is rarely a thing.
- I find Amulet quite effective. It's better at "building the deck while still trashing" than steward. Steward is still faster I think, but both cards are very close (if both in the kingdom, for engine I would take steward, for other kind of decks I would often chose amulet, also amulet is better at trashing curses).
- CotR : At first I didn't understand that you can play three actions (not two) with one copy of it. This is a big thing, clearly a very good village.
- Guide is very very good, like, the best reserve card of the set. I like to use it as a boost for deck-cycling.
- Swamp hag, in games with no other cursers and no trashing can be pretty annoying and the game can easily be a race for the one who get the most swamp hags in play every turn. Otherwise, it's a (very interesting) average attack.
- I overrated Artificer. It's hard to discard enough cards for middle-turn combos. But it can be used quite nicely as a fake +buy.
- Ranger : weaker than I thought, hard to make it work.
- Mission : more combos than I expected.
Logged

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2016, 01:25:49 pm »
+9

Treasure Trove is definitely a card I thought would be unremarkable but it turned out would be game defining.

Treasure Trove
WOW did I underrate this card. I thought it would be like Cache, but it's so much stronger. If Treasure Trove and any draw is available, consider going for that over an engine. Seriously.

Treasure Trove: Who woulda thunk lotsa cash is so sick? I certainly haven't.

Treasure Trove is what Explorer would be if Explorer was actively trying to be the best $5-cost card ever.

Somehow this reminds me of a book.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2016, 01:56:48 pm »
+5

Treasure Trove is definitely a card I thought would be unremarkable but it turned out would be game defining.

Treasure Trove
WOW did I underrate this card. I thought it would be like Cache, but it's so much stronger. If Treasure Trove and any draw is available, consider going for that over an engine. Seriously.

Treasure Trove: Who woulda thunk lotsa cash is so sick? I certainly haven't.

Treasure Trove is what Explorer would be if Explorer was actively trying to be the best $5-cost card ever.

Somehow this reminds me of a book.

https://www.amazon.com/HATE-Money-Understanding-Financial-Personality-ebook/dp/B004YX9UA0 I also found a book that reminds me of you. :)



That being said, what a poorly designed book cover.
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

traces Around

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 328
  • Shuffle iT Username: tracer
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 02:24:37 pm »
+2

The thing I don't understand about the treasure-trove-enables-money-strategies discussion is that trade is so much better for terminal draw big money and yet has been passed over while treasure trove has gotten so much attention.

funkdoc

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 472
  • Respect: +414
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2016, 02:30:51 pm »
+1

The thing I don't understand about the treasure-trove-enables-money-strategies discussion is that trade is so much better for terminal draw big money and yet has been passed over while treasure trove has gotten so much attention.

this this this


like i forgot to mention trade before but i seem to get more use out of that event that many here.  adds more payload to your deck than buying a gold!

Infthitbox

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
  • Respect: +440
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2016, 11:26:35 pm »
0

I think the card I underestimated the most is Royal Carriage. Its been mentioned a couple of times already in this thread, but the ability to only have 1 copy of a payload card in your deck but still play it 5,6,7 times in a turn can be insane, particularly with cards like Giant. I'm still underestimating Coin of the Realm: I know that it is better than I believe it is, which is fine when I slow down enough to play with my head over my gut. In a similar vein, I'm still overestimating Artificer; I've played a couple games where its insane and its led me to playing a bunch of games buying $5 Peddlers. Gear is pretty much always good; Gear-BM less so. Treasure Trove has actually been slightly less powerful than I thought, I thought it was going to be insane and lead to BM+copper trashing, and then I played that deck a few times and it sucked. The Page line is annoying, the Peasant line is fun but a tad centralizing, I also underestimated Miser, its been good sometimes which is better than I thought it was going to be. I also have developed an irrational love for Wine Merchant; must be the art.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2016, 02:31:53 pm »
0

I don't have time to give my thoughts on cards just yet, but I find it funny that I disagree with a lot of what posters believe about the current power level of Adventures cards. I mean, I agree on some points, but I feel some cards people think are weak, I feel are strong, and I feel some cards people think are strong, I think are weak.

It still seems after a month, we are still getting used to the cards and players still have very divergent beliefs regarding them.

I will be happy to hear your thoughts on this matter.

Man, I was almost done typing my response and then I accidentally hit refresh.  :( I guess tomorrow I will post my thoughts.

Still waiting. :(
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2016, 10:30:44 pm »
+3

I don't have time to give my thoughts on cards just yet, but I find it funny that I disagree with a lot of what posters believe about the current power level of Adventures cards. I mean, I agree on some points, but I feel some cards people think are weak, I feel are strong, and I feel some cards people think are strong, I think are weak.

It still seems after a month, we are still getting used to the cards and players still have very divergent beliefs regarding them.

I will be happy to hear your thoughts on this matter.

Man, I was almost done typing my response and then I accidentally hit refresh.  :( I guess tomorrow I will post my thoughts.

Still waiting. :(

Sorry for taking so long on this. After I wrote that long description and accidentally refreshed, I was kind of not in the mood to type everything again. But, here goes.

One quick note. Initially, I thought there would be a fair amount of duds in Adventures. It ends up, I was wrong, and Donald X. has gotten better at making sets. I feel this expansion has the least amount of duds which is surprising considering we have 30 kingdom cards and 20 events. Even the cards that dud-like still have their uses such as Miser. I mean, hey, it's still a trasher and on some boards you can actually get decent money from it.

And, one more thing before I get to the cards, I still feel we are far away from the reality stage. I think it will take us a at least a year of playing before we can really nail down how good certain cards. I mean, it is easier now since we have so much more experience with past Dominion but Adventures introduces some game-breaking stuff with Events and Travellers and tokens and all that jazz. Anyway, onto the cards

$2 Costs
Ratcatcher: I thought this looked amazing, and it is amazing. A non-terminal cantrip $2 trasher that removes itself from the deck is amazing, and unlike Raze, you get to trash a hand of 5 cards. A lot of people say Raze is better. I felt that way at first, but right now, I have them roughly at the same power ranking which is super strong.

Raze: Looked amazing, and is amazing. Again, a $2 trasher that has the ability to trash itself is strong. Plus, in the early game your estates draw you a card while also providing cycling. Solid card.

Coin of the Realm: Stronger than I thought it would be. Most reserve cards seem to offer a lot of ways to make sure your deck keeps firing. I think CotR is best used as a backup plan. Sure, you have some villages, but it's good to have one or two CotR's just in case your cards just don't line up. As the only village, it's pretty reasonable, allowing you to play one more action than most villages and unlike Crossroads, you can call multiples in the same turn.

Page: I think I slightly overrated this,but not much. The card looked super strong, and it is super strong. Some people say that it doesn't feel like Dominion when playing. It felt that way at first, but now it does feel Dominion-like to me. I think Warrior is likely overrated, or players don't yet know the proper Warrior into Champion strategy yet. I'm not sure.

Anyway, as far as Page and it's game-breakingness goes, I am reminded of four cards, Thief, Witch, Gardens, and Chapel. These are the original pillars of Dominion. These are considered pillars because their presence tends to change your strategy and make you go in a different direction. Obviously, as time went on, people realized Thief was weak. I feel cards like Goons and KC are pillars, but so is a card like Rebuild or Cultist. Some pillars are monolithic and don't let for much diverging strategies. These kind of cards I think are unfortunate Dominion cards. Other pillars open the doors for lots of strategies. For instance, Chapel is the ultimate engine enable. Champion is somewhere in the middle. On some boards, it can appear to be a monolithic strategy. On other boards, I think it opens up potential strategies. So, I like that it changes the game so much because I think one core aspect of Dominion is having cards that dramatically sift the direction of the game in a direction different than we are used to.

Peasant Stronger than I thought. I thought Page would be the crazy powerful line, and it is crazy powerful, but I think Peasant is a smidge more stronger. Or, maybe I just like it more. Anyway, Disiciple is nuts. I knew it looked strong, but I had no idea how strong it is. Teacher is also stronger than I thought it would be, although, I had a feeling the token effects would be strong.

$3 costs
Amulet: A smidge weaker than I thought. I felt this would be on the same power level of Steward, and it's not, but Steward is crazy good. Amulet still trashes very well and is a solid trasher.

Guide: It's exactly as good as I thought it would be. I thought it would be a great card to help you get the hand you want, and it is. Like CotR, this helps your engine fire off.

Gear: Better than I thought. The card doesn't only draw two cards, but it can remove crap cards from shuffles or help set up the next turn. I feel this is a bit overrated right now, but it's still a solid card.

Caravan Guard: I thought this looked meh. It ends up it's a decent card to buy when you have a spare $3. It's an average card. Doesn't really hurt your deck. I think though I figured that all out from looking at it. So, I guess it is just slightly better than I anticipated, but not much really.

Dungeon: A lot of people are saying Warehouse is better. I actually think a lot of the times this is better because it helps set up your next turn. As far as how I felt, I think my initial impression was that this seems good. So, overall, I will say my initial impression has not changed much from when I first started playing.

$4 costs
Miser: Roughly as good as I thought it would be. I thought it would be a situational trasher, and it pretty much is. Slogs and Colony games like it. Also, if it is your only trasher, getting one of these is usually a decent call.

Messenger: I really need to buy this card more. I think it's stronger than I give credit for. I'm just so hesitant to ever buy it. But, a Woodcutter Chancellor might be decent. Right now, I have not formulated a strong opinion on it because of my hesitancy to purchase it. My initial impression though was that this is the worst card in the set.

Port: I severely underestimated this. Winning the split can be huge, especially when it is the only village. This is the second best $4 Village just behind Wandering Minstrel.

Duplicate: I tend to overbuy this which means I'm still figuring this card out. I really, really want to do some weird mega turns with this, but the reality is that is not easily possible. So, I will say I slightly overrated this. This is just a Smugglers with a little more flexibility, and if you're lucky the occassional mega-turn potential. It does feel nice though to gain 4 Duchies at once.

Magpie: I overrated this. I thought this would be crazy strong. It's strong and winning the split almost always is important, but it's not as good as I thought. With that said, I think people have gone from overrating this card to now underrating this card.

Transmogrify: Way, way, way better than I thought it would be. This card is amazing. It not only remodels your early estates, but later on, you can help kick off your deck by changing the contents of your hand as needed. Occasionally, you can even pull off weird three-pile endings. But, pretty much, this card offers a lot of flexibility to your engine making sure you have the right components at just the right time.

Ranger: I don't know what it is with me and $4-costs, but I also tend to under buy this card. My initial impression was that this seems okay, and well, it still is okay. Drawing 2.5 cards is weaker than 3-cards. The +buy is nice, but usually if there is another source of +buy like Market, I tend to buy smithy over this. The card is okay, and I think my initial impression was that this would be an okay card.

$5 costs
Bridge Troll: This is much stronger than I thought it would be. Bridge at $5 seemed weak to me, but really getting the effect over two turns is actually really good and makes pulling off a mega-turn much easier. Also, the -$1 token can really hurt sometimes.

Artificer: I had dreams of pulling off HoP like megaturns with this card. While it is possible to pull off a mega-turn, you really need  cost-reduction to make it work or be able to draw a zillion cards. This card is a tricky card requiring good deck-tracking skills to get to work. This card is wonkier than I thought it would be. I still think it is solid, but nowhere strong as I first hoped.

Wine Merchant: I thought this card would be woodcutter level bad but worse since it costs $5. I was so wrong. $4 with +buy is amazing payload. This card isn't always worth getting, but this is actually pretty strong.

Haunted Woods: I thought this would be okay. After reading comments from playtesters, I thought this would be strong, and it is. Being able to start your next turn with 3 cards is so much better than drawing 3 from a Smithy on the same turn. Really helps set up the next turn well. This card is really good. Not Wharf good, but it's pretty up there as far as terminal draw cards goes.

Royal Carriage: Way, way, way better than I thought it would be. This isn't a TR. It is so much more. This isn't KC-level strong, but does help engines kick-off if you save one on your mat, and can also help you play the same card multiple times in the same turn. Calling multiple RCs on MB is pretty nice. My advice, don't think of this as just a Throne Room.

Giant: I thought this card would be crap. It's usually not worth going for, but sometimes it is the only attack and there is a way to play it at least twice in a turn. So, I would say, overall, it is better than I thought, but still on the weaker side of $5-costs, but not total crap.

Relic: I thought this would be Royal Seal bad. Man, I was so wrong. The attack can really hurt. This is like a Ghost Ship. You can even combine this with other attacks. Making it non-terminal is what makes this strong.

Distant Lands: When I first saw this card, I thought it would be bad. Then, Stef said this was the strongest card in the set. I think he was trolling, but this card is strong, arguably the second strongest alt. vp card behind Vineyards. DL is great. There are so many Adventures cards like this that seem weak on the surface and then end up being very good once you start playing with them.

Lost City: I would say this is roughly at the power level I thought it would be at. It's draw and a village at the same time. What more is there to say. I guess the penalty helps the opponent, but the card is nice.

Swamp Hag: Seeing as how this is a junker, I really thought this would be better than it is. Surprisingly, this card is pretty ignorable. I mean, you can't always ignore it, but usually by the time the curses matter, the game has already won. This card is much weaker than anticipated. Not terrible though, but takes the right board for it to really work.

Treasure Trove: The idea of being  treasure flooded does not excite me and usually there is better payload such as Wine Merchant. This card is overrated. Okay, in slogs and BM, this is great, but usually engines win out in the end and if you don't have a way to deal with all the treasures coming your way, your engine is going to get gunked up. So, I would say it has met my expectations and the community is still overrating this card. That's not to say this card is bad. It's roughly on the same power-level as Hoard. But, Hoard usually sucks in an engine and so does this.

$6 costs
Hireling: Weaker than I thought. This card is kind of slow to get going. I thought it would be easier to get many of these in play, and well, simply that isn't as feasible as I first imagined. It's a decent card, but not a great card. It helps to have one or two out.

Events
Alms: This is probably weaker than I thought it would be because gaining a free $4-cost sounded amazing. In slogs, this is great. Sometimes, you get the double $4 or open $5/$4 or have virtual coin and get an extra card. This card does make the game a little faster though, and it's really good in Ambassador games. Still though, I feel like I overrated this one. Maybe it's strong, but I find it's effect kind of boring.

Borrow: I think I overrated this one as well. I really don't buy it too often. Losing that card hurts, so you have to have a really good reason to Borrow such as really needing that Province or the $5 cost is just that important. Some people seem to think it's amazing, so maybe I just don't know how to optimally play this event.

Quest: Weaker than I thought. It's not a bad card though like some people suggest. There have been many games where I gained a gold. Okay, usually, I only ever gain a single gold in a game, but that's not terrible. It's weak, yes, but not the worst event ever. Okay, maybe tied for the worst, but Raid and Quest are nowhere near as bad as the weakest kingdom cards such as Navigator or Scout or even Pearl Diver (with the exception of tokens on its pile).

Save: Holy crap did I underestimate this. I will go so far as to say this event is probably broken. You can set up future turns, get an extra coin, or make crappy estates miss the shuffle. This thing is amazing and is essentially a lab for $1 each turn.

Travelling Fair: I underestimated this not realizing how good +Buy is. Also, the top decking is nice.

Scouting Party: This effect actually seemed really good to me. I think though I buy it more than I thought I would, so I will say I slightly underestimated it.

Expedition: This seemed pretty strong, but the effect is more situational. Knowing when best to buy it can be challenging sometimes. Still though, its decent, just not as great as I hoped.

Ferry: Probably as strong as I thought, maybe a little weaker because it ends up even when you make a $5-cost $3, you still want Villages and stuff for your engine. So, yah, I think I actually overrated this. It does change the games it is in though.

Bonfire: I thought this looked like an amazeballs trasher. It ends up I was right.

Plan: I thought this looked crazy strong, and then I played with it and thought it was horrible, and then I got better with it and realized that it is probably even stronger than Bonfire. This card is crazy good. So, I will say it roughly met my expectations, perhaps slightly under because when I first read it, I had fantasies of trashing my entire deck.

Mission: This is stronger than I thought it would be because it ends up there is a lot more you can do on an extra turn that does not involve buying.

Pilgrimage: Weaker than I thought. It ends up, you usually only gain once with this in a game. Sometimes twice if you're lucky. Okay, there are some games you can gain, gain, with this but those games are pretty rare.

Ball: Seemed strong, and it is strong. Getting two Ironmongers for $5 feels so good, or really gaining any two $4-costs is great. I feel this met my initial expectations.

Raid: This seemed weak to me. It still is pretty weak, but maybe more useful in BM games than I thought. Still though, it looks weak and is weak.

Seaway: Roughly as good as I thought. I pretty much figured that when you wanted +buy this would come in handy. I guess there are some boards where getting a lot of +buy is a thing, so I guess that makes it potentially slightly better than I thought, but not by a lot.

Trade: Wow! I way underestimated this card. Being able to upgrade crap cards for silvers is really good. It beats the pants off of buying gold. I really like this event a lot, and is a great way to add economy to your deck without actually adding additional cards to your deck. I feel right now, this is probably the most underestimated event.

Lost Arts: Before reading playtest comments, I wasn't sure what to think. I didn't really consider just putting this on a Smithy. So, I guess this exceeded my first impression. Though, by the time this came out online, I knew this card was really strong, and well, it is.

Training: Better than I thought. Buy this over Gold. If you have 3 of something, you are essentially adding a gold to your deck without actually adding a gold to your deck.

Inheritance: I wasn't sure what to think. The cost seemed expensive. I would say I underestimated this. There are some boards where Inheriting stuff is huge!!!

Pathfinding: I understimated this. You can draw so many cards from Pathfinding. This card is crazy nuts. You can turn 5 of any cheap cantrip into 5 labs for just $8. A lot of people say Lost Arts is the best event, but I really like Pathfinding a lot. They're both super strong though. And, for $8, you're really getting a bargain for the amount of draw you get out of this.

Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2016, 11:17:22 pm »
0

I have not bought Trade more than once, and I have certainly underestimated the Event.

As for Pilgrimage, I think you are underestimating it so far. Think of it this way:

You either spend $4 on a dud, then gain a free $5, a $3, and a $4 for another $4. You save time with gains and cut costs. Yes, that dud $4 can hurt over your 3rd Ironmonger, and that is why I think someone who duds out on freak misfortune is going to love Pilgrimage much more than someone who is comfortably ahead. The opportunity cost looks so bad up front, but you'll just have to swallow and take the plunge. It is so worth it later on.
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2016, 11:46:14 pm »
+1

I have not bought Trade more than once, and I have certainly underestimated the Event.

As for Pilgrimage, I think you are underestimating it so far. Think of it this way:

You either spend $4 on a dud, then gain a free $5, a $3, and a $4 for another $4. You save time with gains and cut costs. Yes, that dud $4 can hurt over your 3rd Ironmonger, and that is why I think someone who duds out on freak misfortune is going to love Pilgrimage much more than someone who is comfortably ahead. The opportunity cost looks so bad up front, but you'll just have to swallow and take the plunge. It is so worth it later on.

Oh, I understand how Pilgrimage works. I never thought of it as paying $8 over two buys to get stuff. I was saying though that usually I end up using it once or twice for the gain effect in games it shows up. Perhaps, you're right though. Maybe it's possible to get more gains off of it.
Logged

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1855
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2016, 06:41:43 pm »
+2

I thought Magpie was going to be brokenly good, but I think "rats with wings" was accurate in more ways than one: Magpie is most important on boards where you can find some combo with them -- on the kinds of boards where your deck is mostly treasure (so Magpie is most likely to do something good for you) it's unlikely that you'll gain a bunch of free magpies, and in an engine deck, it's unlikely to  actually do anything for you (and even when it does, the card you draw is rarely the one you want). But as soon as you get something that cares about having lots of Magpies (e.g. the various tokens) they become awesome again.

Now, this is not as extreme as Rats, which are literally going to break your deck without certain helpers: even without helpers, Magpie is good. But it's not game-breakingly good, and sometimes not worth the opportunity cost of, say, winning the port split.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2016, 02:18:00 am »
0

I thought Magpie was going to be brokenly good, but I think "rats with wings" was accurate in more ways than one: Magpie is most important on boards where you can find some combo with them -- on the kinds of boards where your deck is mostly treasure (so Magpie is most likely to do something good for you) it's unlikely that you'll gain a bunch of free magpies, and in an engine deck, it's unlikely to  actually do anything for you (and even when it does, the card you draw is rarely the one you want). But as soon as you get something that cares about having lots of Magpies (e.g. the various tokens) they become awesome again.

Now, this is not as extreme as Rats, which are literally going to break your deck without certain helpers: even without helpers, Magpie is good. But it's not game-breakingly good, and sometimes not worth the opportunity cost of, say, winning the port split.

I would say winning the Port split is really worth it if either a) it is the only village b) there are tokens to put on it, in which case winning the Magpie split is often just as important.
Logged

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2016, 05:36:45 am »
0

Treasure Trove: The idea of being  treasure flooded does not excite me and usually there is better payload such as Wine Merchant. This card is overrated. Okay, in slogs and BM, this is great, but usually engines win out in the end and if you don't have a way to deal with all the treasures coming your way, your engine is going to get gunked up. So, I would say it has met my expectations and the community is still overrating this card. That's not to say this card is bad. It's roughly on the same power-level as Hoard. But, Hoard usually sucks in an engine and so does this.
I disagree with this, treasure trove is so much better than hoard. Of course, not awesome for engine but treasure trove make very often BM stronger than engines when it is on the board, in a similar way Jack of all trades does. Treasure trove being a treasure, you can add another terminal action card in your BM deck and that's a big benefit. The fact that it gains Copper + Gold instead of Silver + Silver makes it awesome with sifters or even copper trashers.
Even in engines, it could be a nice playload, quite often better than wine merchant I think. Like, if I'm playing some Wharf-Village engine, I would often want a treasure trove (more than wine merchant) and my economy is made for the rest of the game. Also, Tfb...
Right now, I think it's the second strongest $5 of the set, after Bridge Troll.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2016, 06:06:31 am »
0



Lost City, Distant Lands, Haunted Woods, Relic, Swamp Hag and Artificier would like to have a word with you.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2016, 06:19:22 am »
0



Lost City, Distant Lands, Haunted Woods, Relic, Swamp Hag and Artificier would like to have a word with you.
Distant lands and Relic maybe, time will tell. Haunted wood's attack is quite situationnal (but when it's good, it's really good), I overrated Artificer a lot, very situationnal too. Swamp Hag and Lost City are solid $5, not more than that.
Logged

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2016, 06:26:40 am »
0

I am also on team treasure trove. One added bonus is that when you have a couple of treasure troves, your deck is hurt less by green because you just have so many cards.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2016, 10:40:46 am »
0



Lost City, Distant Lands, Haunted Woods, Relic, Swamp Hag and Artificier would like to have a word with you.

Lost City is great because it gives you draw and a village in one purchase. Great opportunity cost.

Distant Lands just keeps getting better the more I play with it.

Haunted Woods as an attack is great late game. The draw bonus is great. It's a bit wonky when it is the only draw, but hey. It's overall not bad.

Relic is fantastic in certain cases. If you can pin your opponent every turn with Militia and Relic, congrats, you probably won the game.

Swamp Hag is not very good. The opportunity cost is high and it's just so often worth it to buy something anyways. If Swamp Hags can be stacked, nice. But it's an awful Duration with the likes of what you get next turn. Not high on this one.

Artificer? You're going to say it's better than Treasure Trove? Nope. No way. Its effect is rarely used well. It can be a nice $2-$3 gainer, but most times that only applies to Hamlet/Fool's Gold. I have used Artificer to topdeck an Urchin and get my Merc quick though.

Treasure Trove is currently overrated, but it's not by too much.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 10:42:20 am by Seprix »
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1237
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2016, 11:04:52 am »
+1



Lost City, Distant Lands, Haunted Woods, Relic, Swamp Hag and Artificier would like to have a word with you.

Lost City is great because it gives you draw and a village in one purchase. Great opportunity cost.

Distant Lands just keeps getting better the more I play with it.

Haunted Woods as an attack is great late game. The draw bonus is great. It's a bit wonky when it is the only draw, but hey. It's overall not bad.

Relic is fantastic in certain cases. If you can pin your opponent every turn with Militia and Relic, congrats, you probably won the game.

Swamp Hag is not very good. The opportunity cost is high and it's just so often worth it to buy something anyways. If Swamp Hags can be stacked, nice. But it's an awful Duration with the likes of what you get next turn. Not high on this one.

Artificer? You're going to say it's better than Treasure Trove? Nope. No way. Its effect is rarely used well. It can be a nice $2-$3 gainer, but most times that only applies to Hamlet/Fool's Gold. I have used Artificer to topdeck an Urchin and get my Merc quick though.

Treasure Trove is currently overrated, but it's not by too much.
Artificer is olny great with cost reducers and draw to x.
Menagerie is great with it.
Logged

tailred

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 195
  • Shuffle iT Username: ceviri
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2016, 02:45:17 pm »
0



Lost City, Distant Lands, Haunted Woods, Relic, Swamp Hag and Artificier would like to have a word with you.

Lost City is great because it gives you draw and a village in one purchase. Great opportunity cost.

Distant Lands just keeps getting better the more I play with it.

Haunted Woods as an attack is great late game. The draw bonus is great. It's a bit wonky when it is the only draw, but hey. It's overall not bad.

Relic is fantastic in certain cases. If you can pin your opponent every turn with Militia and Relic, congrats, you probably won the game.

Swamp Hag is not very good. The opportunity cost is high and it's just so often worth it to buy something anyways. If Swamp Hags can be stacked, nice. But it's an awful Duration with the likes of what you get next turn. Not high on this one.

Artificer? You're going to say it's better than Treasure Trove? Nope. No way. Its effect is rarely used well. It can be a nice $2-$3 gainer, but most times that only applies to Hamlet/Fool's Gold. I have used Artificer to topdeck an Urchin and get my Merc quick though.

Treasure Trove is currently overrated, but it's not by too much.
Artificer is olny great with cost reducers and draw to x.
Menagerie is great with it.
Don't forget pool.
Logged

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2016, 07:02:56 pm »
+1

Quote from: Seprix
Haunted Woods as an attack is great late game. The draw bonus is great. It's a bit wonky when it is the only draw, but hey. It's overall not bad.

Swamp Hag is not very good. The opportunity cost is high and it's just so often worth it to buy something anyways. If Swamp Hags can be stacked, nice. But it's an awful Duration with the likes of what you get next turn. Not high on this one.

I think the opposite. Swamp hag and haunted woods both have the potential of hurting a lot. Swamp hag, with the presence of other cursers, is useless. Haunted wood, with the presence of discarding, can sometimes help the opponent instead of hurting him.
But overall, the attack of swamp hag, especially when stacked, hurt more than haunted woods. I would definitely not say that swamp hag is not very good. The vanilla bonus is ok.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5607
  • Respect: +3676
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2016, 11:00:29 pm »
0

I think the opposite. Swamp hag and haunted woods both have the potential of hurting a lot. Swamp hag, with the presence of other cursers, is useless. Haunted wood, with the presence of discarding, can sometimes help the opponent instead of hurting him.
But overall, the attack of swamp hag, especially when stacked, hurt more than haunted woods. I would definitely not say that swamp hag is not very good. The vanilla bonus is ok.

Think of it this way.

The opportunity cost for Swamp Hag is $5 and a buy. This effect gives you no bonus on the turn you play it. It hurts very much as a terminal to play. No bonus. On the next turn, you receive $3. On average, you only get $1.5 out of Swamp Hag, and you only get to play it once every two turns. That's not very good.

But there's more. The opponent has to make the agonizing decision of whether to take a Curse with his purchase or not. Swamp Hag becomes more daunting when it is stacked. But there's another problem. Swamp Hag is often not worth pursuing. And when it is worth pursuing, the opponent will pursue it as well.

 I have often seen games where the opponent takes time to buy Swamp Hag because he is behind and wants to junk me. By the time he gets his plan in effect, I am already much further ahead, further than before. Swamp Hag does not accelerate a plan. It slows a plan down, and it takes time to get it into play.

Once the Curses are gone, Swamp Hag is also pretty bleah.
Logged
DM me for ideas on a new article, either here or on Discord (I check Discord way more often)

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2016, 02:44:48 am »
+2

Swamp Hag is the weakest curser in the game. I have won many games by ignoring Hag while my opponents have gone for it. The reason it is so bad most of the time is that the curses are usually gained at a point in the game where the engine can easily deal with them. You want to curse early and quick. Swamp Hag curses late, but tends to hand out a lot of curses at once because your opponent has a nice engine with a lot of buys. I can remember at least two games where I gained 4 curses in a single turn because I bought four cards at once. Guess what, I ended up winning both of those games. By the time Hag takes off, it's usually too late.

Artificer is more situational, but likely better than Trove. Sure, Trove is good with Wharf, but in most engines, Wine Merchant will be better payload for you, especially if other sources of +buy suck or are non-existent.

Trove is a decent card, but really mostly shines in BM. Unless you have great trashing, it becomes a liability in an engine, and really, you don't want treasures clogging your engine.
Logged

funkdoc

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 472
  • Respect: +414
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2016, 01:21:13 pm »
+3

the treasure trove hype goes hand-in-hand with the gear-BM hype, i think. not big on either.  also agree with seprix & beyond awesome on swamp hag, we may finally have a worse junker than sea hag or IGG

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: Adventures: first impressions vs. reality
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2016, 04:06:50 pm »
+2

Gear-BM hype was misplaced, but Gear hype was not.  It's very similar to Jack of all Trades in that way.  Gear BM is strong, but when Gear is present in the kingdom, there is often a stronger engine that includes Gear.  Draw and smoothing buys between multiple turns is important for money strategies, and Gear delivers on that.  But Gear also provides one of the strongest ways to set up your next turn, which benefits engines tremendously.

Treasure Trove, I think, is less good in an engine.  You really need a way to benefit from the Coppers (e.g. Spice Merchant, Forger) for it to be worth it.  On the other hand, it's really good in a slog situation with good sifting.

As for Swamp Hag, I still think it's strong.  On some boards, it is brutal (no/weak trashing with no other cursers).  On other boards, it can still mess up your opponent's building phase.  I think it's stronger than Soothsayer and IGG.  Like Soothsayer, it takes a certain kind of board to shine, but on that board, it shines brightly (in an evil way).
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All
 

Page created in 0.251 seconds with 21 queries.