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Author Topic: Empty the Supply in Two Turns  (Read 2389 times)

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scott_pilgrim

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Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« on: June 14, 2016, 01:10:37 am »
+21

This is my first draft.  There are probably some errors in it (especially towards the end), but unless I've done something horribly wrong in the build-up, it's certainly possible now.  And I don't make much use of shuffle-luck, so it is probably possible to do it with only stacking your deck at the beginning, and it might even be possible totally independently of shuffle-luck.

I'm attaching an excel spreadsheet because I think that's the easiest way to follow along, but I have no idea how attachments work on the forum.  I was going to use Google docs, but I'm not sure if it puts my real name on there and I prefer to keep that private (I don't use Google docs much so I don't really know how they work), but if someone else could help me make a more convenient/readable version that would be nice.

Starting deck state:   
Copper   
Copper   
Copper   
Copper   
Necropolis   
Copper   
Copper   
Copper   
Hovel   
Overgrown Estate   
   
Kingdom:   
Stonemason   
Black Market   
Bridge   
Villa   
Procession   
Library   
Haggler   
Council Room   
Border Village   
King's Court   
   
Events:   
Advance   
Borrow   
Travelling Fair   
   
Black Market deck (in the order the cards are bought):   
Royal Carriage   
Throne Room   
Hunting Grounds   
Peddler   
Altar   
Forge   
Bank   
Counting House   
Chancellor   
Coppersmith   
Cache   
Death Cart   
Baker   
Feast   
Rogue   
Graverobber   
Scout   
Wishing Well   
Witch   
Royal Seal   
   
(Really none of the Black Market deck matters after RC, TR, and HG, and Baker for the coin token and Death Cart for the Ruins.  A few cards need to be expensive, and Coppersmith+Counting House explodes your money at the end, but you already have plenty of resources to empty the supply.)   
How to read the spreadsheet:   
   The things on the left tell you the things they say they tell you.
   They tell you how much of those things you have AFTER that row has been resolved.
   Don't get confused by Black Market.  You get +$2 and then you buy something (with some cost reduction), so that's why sometimes you come out with more coin and sometimes less or the same after playing Black Market.
   The actions increase by 1 when you gain Villa, don't forget about that.
   Below each black horizontal line, the current game state is shown.  If you get lost you can try to go back to the last checkpoint and try again.
Unless otherwise specified, top-deck everything whenever possible (except Villas obviously, put those in your hand).  There are some sections where I say not to top-deck stuff.

Here's the text version:

Play 4 Coppers, Buy TF, TF, 2 Ruins; Advance, trashing Necropolis, gaining Border Village and Library.  Top of the deck is now Library, BV, Ruins, Ruins, Copper.                  
Play Copper+coin token.  Buy Borrow, Buy TF.                  
   Buy Advance, trashing Ruins, gaining BV+Bridge.               
   Buy Advance, trashing Ruins, gaining BV+Villa.               
Play Villa                  
Play Library, (skip -1 card token), draw Border Village, Bridge, Border Village, Copper, Copper, Hovel                  
Play Bridge                  
Play 2 Copper                  
Buy Stonemason, overpaying by $3.  Gain Bridge, Villa.                  
Play Villa                  
Play Border Village, drawing Stonemason                  
Play Stonemason, trashing Border Village, gaining Library and Library                  
Play Border Village, drawing Library                  
Play Library, drawing Library, Bridge, OGE, (re-shuffle), Copper, Copper, Copper                  
   (Your draw pile is now just one Copper and your discard pile is empty)               
Play Bridge                  
Play 3 Copper                  
Buy Stonemason, overpaying by $4, gaining Border Village, Library, Border Village, Haggler                  
Buy Stonemason, overpaying by $2, gaining Procession, Villa                  
Play Villa                  
Play Library, drawing Stonemason, Procession, Stonemason, Haggler, Border Village                  
Play Procession                  
   Play Border Village twice, drawing Library, Border Village               
   Trash Border Village, gain King's Court               
Play Haggler                  
Play Stonemason, trashing Border Village, gaining Haggler and Library                  
Play Library, drawing Library, Haggler, King's Court, Copper                  
Play King's Court on Haggler                  
Play Copper                  
Buy King's Court, gaining Border Village, gaining Haggler; gaining Border Village, gaining Procession                  
Buy King's Court, gaining Border Village, gaining Library; gaining Border Village, gaining Villa                  
Play Villa                  
Play Library, drawing King's Court, Border Village, Library, (skip Border Village, King's Court), Procession                  
Play King's Court on Procession                  
   Play Stonemason twice               
      Trash Border Village, gain Haggler, Procession            
      Trash Hovel            
   Trash Stonemason; gain Black Market               
   Play Library twice               
      Draw Black Market, Procession, Haggler, Border Village, Haggler, (skip Border Village), (re-shuffle), King's Court            
   DON'T TOP-DECK ANYTHING FOR A WHILE               
   Trash Library; gain Border Village, gaining Library               
      !!! Border Villages are now empty            
   Play Procession twice               
      Play Border Village twice            
         Draw Border Village, (re-shuffle), Library         
      Trash Border Village; gain King's Court (top-deck)            
      Play King's Court twice            
         Play Haggler three times         
         Play Black Market three times         
            Buy Royal Carriage, gaining Procession, Procession, Procession      
            Buy Throne Room, gaining Black Market, Black Market, Black Market      
            Buy Hunting Grounds, gaining Haggler, Haggler, Council Room (top-deck Hunting Grounds)      
      Trash King's Court            
   Trash Procession; gain Haggler (don't top-deck this Haggler)               
Play Haggler                  
Buy King's Court (top-deck this)                  
   Gain 3 Gold, 1 Villa               
Play Villa                  
Play Library, drawing King's Court, Hunting Grounds, King's Court, Border Village, Border Village                  
                  
RESUME TOP-DECKING STUFF                  
Play King's Court on Hunting Grounds                  
   Draw Haggler, Haggler, Haggler, Council Room               
   Draw Royal Carriage, Throne Room, Procession, Procession               
   Draw Procession, Black Market, Black Market, Black Market               
Play Royal Carriage                  
Play Throne Room on King's Court                  
   Play Haggler three times               
   Play Haggler three times               
   Call Royal Carriage (on King's Court)               
   Play Procession three times               
      Play Procession twice            
         Play Procession twice         
            Play Black Market twice      
               Buy Peddler, gaining 5 King's Courts, 1 Gold (don't top-deck the Gold or Peddler)   
               Buy Altar, gaining 3 Hagglers, 2 Council Rooms, 1 Library (don't top-deck Altar or Library)   
            Trash Black Market, gain Procession      
            Play Council Room twice      
               Draw Procession, Council Room, Council Room, Haggler   
               Draw Haggler, Haggler, King's Court, King's Court   
            Trash Council Room      
         Trash Procession, gain Council Room         
         Play King's Court twice         
            Play King's Court three times      
               Play Council Room three times   
                  Draw Council Room, King's Court, King's Court, King's Court
                  Draw Gold, Gold, Gold, (re-shuffle), Gold
                  Draw Peddler, Altar, Library
               Play King's Court three times   
                  Play Haggler three times
                  Play Haggler three times
                  Play Haggler three times
               Play King's Court three times   
                  Play Haggler three times                  
                  Play Black Market three times                  
                     Buy Forge, gaining 2 Libraries, 6 Council Rooms, 1 Procession, 1 Gold (don't top-deck Hoard or Gold)               
                     Buy Bank, gaining 10 Gold (don't top-deck any of this)               
                     Buy Counting House, gaining 6 Black Markets, 3 Copper, 1 Bridge (don't top-deck the Copper)               
                  Play King's Court three times                  
                     Play Council Room three times               
                        Draw Counting House, Bridge, Black Market, Black Market            
                        Draw Black Market, Black Market, Black Market, Black Market            
                        Draw Procession, Council Room, Council Room, Council Room            
                     Play Procession three times               
                        Play Procession twice            
                           Play Black Market twice         
                              Buy Chancellor, gaining 10 Copper (don't top-deck the Copper)      
                              Buy Coppersmith, gaining 10 Copper (don't top-deck the Copper)      
                           Trash Black Market, gain Procession         
                           Play Black Market twice         
                              Buy Cache, gaining 10 Copper (12 Copper total; don't top-deck any of this)      
                              Buy Death Cart, gaining 10 Copper, and 2 Ruins (don't top-deck this stuff)      
                           Trash Black Market, gain Procession         
                        Trash Procession            
                        Play Council Room twice            
                           Draw Procession, Procession, Coppersmith, Chancellor         
                           Draw Council Room, Council Room, Council Room, Library         
                        Trash Council Room            
                        STOP TOP-DECKING STUFF            
                        Play Procession twice            
                           Play Procession twice         
                              Play Black Market twice      
                                 Buy Baker, gaining 8 Copper, 2 Silver   
                                 Buy Feast, gaining 10 Silver   
                              Trash Black Market, gain Bridge      
                              Play Black Market twice      
                                 Buy Rogue, gaining 10 Silver   
                                 Buy Graverobber, gaining 10 Silver   
                              Trash Black Market, gain Bridge      
                           Trash Procession         
                           Play Black Market twice         
                              Buy Scout, gaining 8 Silver, 2 Ruins      
                              Buy Wishing well, gaining 10 Curses      
                           Trash Black Market, gain Bridge         
                        Trash Procession            
                     Play Black Market three times               
                        Buy Witch, gaining 4 Ruins, 4 Bridges, 2 Stonemasons (top-deck everything except Witch)            
                        Buy Royal Seal, gaining 5 Stonemasons, 5 Villas            
                        Buy nothing            
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
            Play Bridge three times                        
         Trash King's Court                           
      Trash Procession                              
      Play Coppersmith twice                              
      Trash Coppersmith                              
      Play Altar twice                              
         Trash Gold, gain Province                           
         Trash Gold, gain Province                           
      Trash Altar                              
Play Counting House, putting 53 Coppers in hand.
Play 53 Coppers
Buy 6 Provinces, gaining all the Gold
Buy 8 Duchies
Buy 5 Travelling Fairs
Buy 8 Estates
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ephesos

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 04:23:12 am »
0

Wow, Villa really makes a lot more possible... though Advance also does a lot of work.

Wonder if you can get it down to 2 Events. Doesn't seem like you need the Borrow at first glance, doesn't seem too necessary to the core of the build up. Like, maybe figure out another Advance play instead of Stonemason, gain a Fortress instead of a Bridge and just keep Advancing that.

Maybe look into an infinite loop setup so you don't have to worry about endgame, though most of the ones I've seen need a Ferry. One I was looking at could be modified to use one Bridge tick and Band of Misfits though....

Now, is it possible to play the perfect game, and empty the Supply on turn 1?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 11:54:41 am »
0

Wonder if you can get it down to 2 Events. Doesn't seem like you need the Borrow at first glance, doesn't seem too necessary to the core of the build up. Like, maybe figure out another Advance play instead of Stonemason, gain a Fortress instead of a Bridge and just keep Advancing that.

Yeah, I doubt you need Borrow.  I did end up using that coin, but not for a while, so you could probably rework it so that you don't need it.
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Seprix

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 01:34:59 pm »
0

Now, is it possible to play the perfect game, and empty the Supply on turn 1?

Only Saint Celestial Chameleon may answer that problem.
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mith

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2016, 11:51:47 am »
+2

The missing piece for a turn 1 solution is a way to draw multiple actions after returning to the action phase with Villa (and still have money and buys of course). We can already do something like:

Hand: CCCCN
Baker token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Advance (Necropolis -> Border Village + Cultist), Alms (Villa)
Villa, Copper x4, Doctor (+1), Trash Cultist, Draw Border Village, Copper, Copper.

But we can't afford another Travelling Fair before the Doctor, so we can't Advance the Border Village (and even if we could we're no better off, because it would have to be Border Village + Villa to get back to the Action phase). The solution for turn 2 requires starting with two Ruins to Advance and a Library to draw the new actions with, and I don't think there's a way to get going with just our starting Necropolis.

Might be doable with more players though (via Messenger and Lost City).
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mith

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2016, 06:09:52 pm »
0

Actually, Fortress is probably better than Cultist for this, because it's reusable fuel. Still don't see a way to buy Travelling Fair first, nor a good way to snowball even if there were one.

(An alternative goal could be to get set up for turn two but fit a Mission buy in there, and then go into a loop with Villa to gain the supply without buying. But I don't know that the unbounded loop is possible with only gains for Villa.)
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ephesos

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2016, 12:28:10 am »
0

Actually, Fortress is probably better than Cultist for this, because it's reusable fuel. Still don't see a way to buy Travelling Fair first, nor a good way to snowball even if there were one.

(An alternative goal could be to get set up for turn two but fit a Mission buy in there, and then go into a loop with Villa to gain the supply without buying. But I don't know that the unbounded loop is possible with only gains for Villa.)

Well, you could just keep Advancing Fortress for your Villa, so that doesn't seem that bad.

The tough part is putting Villa back with Ambassador, which requires you to buy Bonfire to trash the Ambassador and to have a KC Rogue to get it back. You also need continuous +Buy to keep buying it; maybe Seaway if we're giving up on 2 Events. And, of course, you need to keep drawing them back; I guess that's Pathfinding too or another card to fetch. And why not, throw Lost Arts in to get some +Action so you can play both KC and Ambassador without playing Villa.
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mith

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2016, 12:00:40 pm »
+1

Actually, that's a good point. You have to get your Fortress in hand first, so you need a Travelling Fair buy for that:

Hand: CCCCN
Baker token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Advance (Necropolis -> Border Village + Fortress), Alms (Villa)
Villa, Copper x4, Doctor (+1), Trash Fortress, Fortress in Hand (but only $1 and 0 buys)

With an extra coin (say we make it a two player game and opponent buys Lost City):

Hand: CCCCCN
Baker token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Advance (Necropolis -> Border Village + Fortress), Alms (Villa)
Villa, Copper x5, Travelling Fair, Doctor (+1), Trash Fortress (In Hand), Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Deck: BBXXXX, Hand: FV
Villa, Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Deck: BBBXXXX, Hand: FV
Villa, Travelling Fair, Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Fortress), Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Deck: BFBBBXXXX, Hand: FV
Villa, Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Deck: BBFBBBXXXX, Hand: FV
Villa, Travelling Fair, Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Library), Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Deck: BLBBBFBBBXXXX, Hand: FV
Villa, Fortress (draw Border Village), Border Village (draw Library), Library (draw BBBFBBB)

And you can probably do something from there, but you've gone through a lot of Border Villages and Villas. I'm starting to come around to at least being able to three-pile on turn 1 (given that extra coin).

(And of course we don't have to gain Border Villages with every Advance; running out of Villas is the bigger potential problem.)

[edit]Actually, that doesn't quite work because the Fortress won't draw (Borrow). But I'm sure that can be fixed somehow. And the turn 2 solution only requires 5 Villas, and the above also uses 5, so this might just be doable... though with too many Kingdom cards and Events, of course.[/edit]
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 11:08:16 am by mith »
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mith

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2016, 12:43:45 pm »
+3

With four players:

Player 1: Copper x4, Messenger (Watchtower)
Player 2: Copper x4, Coin Token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Noble Brigand, Advance (Necropolis -> Lost City)
Player 3: Copper x4, Coin Token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Noble Brigand, Advance (Necropolis -> Lost City)
Player 4: Hand: CCCCCNW

Coin Token, Borrow, Travelling Fair, Advance (Necropolis -> Border Village + Fortress, trash Fortress), Alms (Villa)
Hand: CCCCCWFV
Villa, Copper x5, Travelling Fair, Travelling Fair, Travelling Fair, Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Bridge), Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Bridge), Advance (Fortress -> Border Village + Villa)
Hand: WFV
Villa, Watchtower (skip -1 Card, draw Border Village x3, Bridge x2)
And you're already in a stronger position than the turn 2 solution. Watchtower in hand makes everything easier.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 11:07:20 am by mith »
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mith

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Re: Empty the Supply in Two Turns
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 04:54:48 pm »
+1

With an extra coin (say we make it a two player game and opponent buys Lost City):

I think I've convinced myself that this can't be made to work with 2 players. The issue is that it's already expensive to get the Fortress in hand, and because of the -1 Card token we need a *second* Doctor overpay to actually draw additional cards. We also need two Travelling Fair buys (one to get a Cultist on top, the other to Advance -> Villa after buying Doctor). Altogether, that's $8, which means (unless there's a way to get money other than Villa that we haven't found yet) we're buying our last Villa to get back to the Action phase with more than just Villa/Fortress. This is what that looks like:

Hand: Necropolis, Copper x5

Buy Borrow
Spend Coin Token
Buy Travelling Fair
Buy Advance (Necropolis -> Border Village, Fortress)
Buy Alms (Villa)

Hand: Villa, Copper x5

Play Villa
Play Copper x5
Buy Travelling Fair
Buy Doctor (Overpay 1, Trash Fortress)
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Border Village, Villa)

Hand: Villa, Fortress

Play Villa
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Border Village, Villa)

Hand: Villa, Fortress

Play Villa
Buy Travelling Fair
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Border Village, Cultist)
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Villa)

Hand: Villa, Fortress

Play Villa
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Villa)
(Do this 5 times)

Hand: Villa, Fortress

Play Villa
Buy Travelling Fair
Buy Doctor (Overpay 1, Trash Cultist)
Buy Advance (Fortress -> Villa)

Hand: Villa, Fortress, Border Village x2

I suspect if the Villa pile were 15 (maybe even fewer), it could be done; it wouldn't take much more from this point to start snowballing - two more plays of Villa will get you whatever $6 or less Kingdom card you want on top, either to draw or get an influx of cash, and with the -1 Card token out of the way you can draw that with a Border Village.

Of course, even with that we would still have to fit all this into the remaining Kingdom slots - we've already used 6 (Villa, Border Village, Fortress, Doctor, Cultist, Black Market) of 11. It's funny to me that the "Empty the Supply" problem would be easier with more cards in the supply, but there you go. (Never mind the 4 Events, I'll play with all 34 if I have to!)

(Even with 3 players, I'm not sure it can be done. The issue is that the first buy phase needs to be done without Copper in order to use Alms, so we're still stuck with the -1 Card token from Borrow.)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 05:14:21 pm by mith »
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