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#### chipperMDW

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##### Fortune and -\$1 Token
« on: June 11, 2016, 03:24:35 am »
+1

When Fortune doubles your money, does it do that by giving you +\$N where \$N is your current coin total, meaning a -\$1 Token would reduce that to +\${N - 1}?  Or is it really a multiplication and somehow different from "getting" coins, letting the effect bypass -\$1 Tokens?

If a -\$1 Token does reduce the \$ gained, does that mean you didn't quite double your \$ and can play another Fortune and get the doubling effect again?  Or is merely attempting to follow the "double your \$" instruction sufficient to disallow you from getting the effect again, regardless of whether it was completed successfully the first time?
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#### Donald X.

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 03:59:32 am »
+3

When Fortune doubles your money, does it do that by giving you +\$N where \$N is your current coin total, meaning a -\$1 Token would reduce that to +\${N - 1}?  Or is it really a multiplication and somehow different from "getting" coins, letting the effect bypass -\$1 Tokens?

If a -\$1 Token does reduce the \$ gained, does that mean you didn't quite double your \$ and can play another Fortune and get the doubling effect again?  Or is merely attempting to follow the "double your \$" instruction sufficient to disallow you from getting the effect again, regardless of whether it was completed successfully the first time?
You get \$1 less and yet that still counts as your doubling for the turn.

You have \$ and a -\$1 token and can play Fortune. Bridge Troll won't do it, it must be Ball. You had \$6 or more, bought Ball gaining Villa, didn't play the Villa (which would eat the -\$1 token and we wouldn't want that, uh there's Haunted Woods in effect and you want that Villa in your next hand), went back to your Buy phase and played Fortune. Well there you have it, it's possible.
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#### math

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 04:43:09 pm »
0

When Fortune doubles your money, does it do that by giving you +\$N where \$N is your current coin total, meaning a -\$1 Token would reduce that to +\${N - 1}?  Or is it really a multiplication and somehow different from "getting" coins, letting the effect bypass -\$1 Tokens?

If a -\$1 Token does reduce the \$ gained, does that mean you didn't quite double your \$ and can play another Fortune and get the doubling effect again?  Or is merely attempting to follow the "double your \$" instruction sufficient to disallow you from getting the effect again, regardless of whether it was completed successfully the first time?
You get \$1 less and yet that still counts as your doubling for the turn.

You have \$ and a -\$1 token and can play Fortune. Bridge Troll won't do it, it must be Ball. You had \$6 or more, bought Ball gaining Villa, didn't play the Villa (which would eat the -\$1 token and we wouldn't want that, uh there's Haunted Woods in effect and you want that Villa in your next hand), went back to your Buy phase and played Fortune. Well there you have it, it's possible.

Edge case challenge, hard mode: Can you find a situation where that's better than playing Fortune first before buying the Ball?  I'm don't think it's possible, but I would love to be proven wrong.
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#### eHalcyon

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2016, 06:28:10 pm »
+1

When Fortune doubles your money, does it do that by giving you +\$N where \$N is your current coin total, meaning a -\$1 Token would reduce that to +\${N - 1}?  Or is it really a multiplication and somehow different from "getting" coins, letting the effect bypass -\$1 Tokens?

If a -\$1 Token does reduce the \$ gained, does that mean you didn't quite double your \$ and can play another Fortune and get the doubling effect again?  Or is merely attempting to follow the "double your \$" instruction sufficient to disallow you from getting the effect again, regardless of whether it was completed successfully the first time?
You get \$1 less and yet that still counts as your doubling for the turn.

You have \$ and a -\$1 token and can play Fortune. Bridge Troll won't do it, it must be Ball. You had \$6 or more, bought Ball gaining Villa, didn't play the Villa (which would eat the -\$1 token and we wouldn't want that, uh there's Haunted Woods in effect and you want that Villa in your next hand), went back to your Buy phase and played Fortune. Well there you have it, it's possible.

Edge case challenge, hard mode: Can you find a situation where that's better than playing Fortune first before buying the Ball?  I'm don't think it's possible, but I would love to be proven wrong.

You didn't have Fortune in hand in your first action phase.  You ran out of actions, bought Ball gaining Villa, returned to your action phase and played something (like Smithy) that drew Fortune.
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#### Donald X.

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2016, 06:38:35 pm »
0

When Fortune doubles your money, does it do that by giving you +\$N where \$N is your current coin total, meaning a -\$1 Token would reduce that to +\${N - 1}?  Or is it really a multiplication and somehow different from "getting" coins, letting the effect bypass -\$1 Tokens?

If a -\$1 Token does reduce the \$ gained, does that mean you didn't quite double your \$ and can play another Fortune and get the doubling effect again?  Or is merely attempting to follow the "double your \$" instruction sufficient to disallow you from getting the effect again, regardless of whether it was completed successfully the first time?
You get \$1 less and yet that still counts as your doubling for the turn.

You have \$ and a -\$1 token and can play Fortune. Bridge Troll won't do it, it must be Ball. You had \$6 or more, bought Ball gaining Villa, didn't play the Villa (which would eat the -\$1 token and we wouldn't want that, uh there's Haunted Woods in effect and you want that Villa in your next hand), went back to your Buy phase and played Fortune. Well there you have it, it's possible.

Edge case challenge, hard mode: Can you find a situation where that's better than playing Fortune first before buying the Ball?  I'm don't think it's possible, but I would love to be proven wrong.

You didn't have Fortune in hand in your first action phase.  You ran out of actions, bought Ball gaining Villa, returned to your action phase and played something (like Smithy) that drew Fortune.
Better: You didn't have Fortune at all. You had two Buys, bought Fortune and Ball, played Smithy to draw Fortune.
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#### faust

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 07:17:42 pm »
+1

Possibility that doesn't require additional actions: You had two Ventures in hand and wanted to buy Grand Market. There was a Copper and a Fortune left in your discard. You buy Ball, GM first and afterwards you can play the Venture.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### Donald X.

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 07:21:49 pm »
0

Possibility that doesn't require additional actions: You had two Ventures in hand and wanted to buy Grand Market. There was a Copper and a Fortune left in your discard. You buy Ball, GM first and afterwards you can play the Venture.
Playing Venture gives you \$1, which eats the -\$1 token ahead of Fortune.
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• Torturer
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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 07:45:24 pm »
0

I have \$10 and a Potion with a -\$1 token. I play Fortune.

How much money do I have?
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#### Donald X.

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 07:56:35 pm »
+5

I have \$10 and a Potion with a -\$1 token. I play Fortune.

How much money do I have?
I dunno, you're still a kid, right? I guess maybe you have a paper route or something. Man do kids still have paper routes? No-one's paying you to deliver the internet news.
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• Torturer
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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 08:00:13 pm »
0

I have \$10 and a Potion with a -\$1 token. I play Fortune.

How much money do I have?
I dunno, you're still a kid, right? I guess maybe you have a paper route or something. Man do kids still have paper routes? No-one's paying you to deliver the internet news.
Hi Awaclus.
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Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: Fortune and -\$1 Token
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 06:39:54 am »
+2

I have \$10 and a Potion with a -\$1 token. I play Fortune.

How much money do I have?
I dunno, you're still a kid, right? I guess maybe you have a paper route or something. Man do kids still have paper routes? No-one's paying you to deliver the internet news.
Hi Awaclus.

Hi.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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