Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Boldot]

So I started off thinking of one or two cards, and using "produce tokens", but as soon as I switched to cards it sort of opened the flood gates for card ideas.
With this expansion, I'd treat it similarly to Alchemy, where you could use just 1, but I'd say at least 4-5 would be good.  I designed it to have all 10 kingdom cards at once from this expansion.  Still working on what/how to reconcile getting some of these cards to work as the only Agriculture card available, but for now try to think about these with at least 5 Agriculture cards in the kingdoms

Again similar to alchemy, if you're using any of these cards, add the pile of Produce cards to the supply.

Bushels count as kingdom cards, and use up one of the 10.

I wish I had more people to play test some of these, as some of them I've only tested in my head, and in a sort of solo play.  Thoughts, comments, gut reactions, questions, anything is welcome (you could even be rude on purpose, but what’s the point in that?)



$0   Produce - Treasure   
   $1          
   When this card is bought, immediately return it to the supply.  When this card is trashed, return it to the supply instead.
   15 Produce per player in supply


$2   Barn - Action – Reaction - Duration
   Gain 2 Produce   
   Reaction: When an opponent plays an attack card, you may reveal and set aside this card, if you do take a Produce from the supply and set it aside, take both into your hand at the start of your next turn
   Duration: At the start of your next turn, gain 1 Produce into your hand

$2   Silo - Action      
   +1 buy      
   While this card is in play, you get +1 coin for each of the next 4 Produce trashed

$2   Bushel - Treasure - Reaction   
   $2          
   When you gain this card, trash a Produce from your hand.  If you do not, return this card to the Supply
   Reaction: When you would trash a Produce, you may reveal this card from your hand, discard this card from your hand instead of trashing a produce

$3   Oxen - Action         
   Gain 1 Produce   
   Pick One:
      discard x cards: gain x Produce OR
      discard x Produce: +x cards, +x actions, +x coin OR
      Gain 1 Bushel

$3   Stove - Action      
   +1 action      
   trash x Produce: +3x cards

$3   Farmers Market    - Action
   +2 coin      
   trash 1 Produce: If you do, gain an action card worth up to 4

$3   Hired Hand - Action   
   +1 buy, +1 card      
   Either:
      Gain 1 Produce OR
      trash 1 Produce: If you do, +2 coin, +1 buy

$4   Farmer - Action      
   +1 action, +1 coin      
   either:
      Gain 1 Produce OR
      trash 1 Produce: If you do, +1 coin, +2 card

$4   Plow - Action      
   +2 card      
   Either:
      Gain 1 Produce OR
      trash 1 Produce: If you do, +2 action, +1 card

$4   Wagon - Action         
   either:
      Gain 3 Produce OR
      trash x Produce: +3x coin

$4   Market Stand - Action      
   +1 coin, +1 buy      
   Trash x Produce: gain x silvers

$4   Town - Action      
   +2 action, +1 card   
   Gain 2 Produce   
   When this card is discarded from play, you may trash a Produce from play and put this on top of your deck

$4   Maggots - Attack
   +2 card      
   Opponents must trash 1 Produce from their hand or reveal a hand with no Produce and reveal the top 2 cards of their library, trash any Produce, and put the rest back in the order of their choosing

$4   Barn Raising - Action            
   Trash a card in your hand and x Produce: Gain a card worth up to the trashed cards cost +2x

$4   Homestead - Victory
   +2 vp for every 4 Produce   

$4   Harvest Moon - Action
   +1 coin, +1 buy      
   Reveal your hand, for each Produce revealed, action cards cost $1 less this turn, but no less than $0.

$5   Irrigation - Action      
   +2 card      
   While this card is in play, you may trash a card that is not a Produce from your hand, and gain a Produce into your hand

$5   Harvest Festival - Action
   +2 action, +1 buy, +2 coin   
   Gain 2 Produce   
   You must have at least 1 Produce in play to purchase this

$5   Blight - Attack
   +1 action      
   All other players reveal the top card of their deck, and discard it.  If it is a:
Produce, trash it and they gain +1 curse;
Victory card, you gain +1 card;
Treasure card, you gain +1 coin

$5   Crop Thief - Attack   
   +2 coin      
   All other players reveal the top 3 cards of their deck, all Produce are trashed, and all others are discarded, you may gain +1 Produce per player that trashed a Produce

$5   Merchant - Action
   +2 coin      
   either:
+2 Produce OR
trash 1 Produce: If you do, +3 coin, +1 buy

$5   Orchard - Victory - Action
   2 VP
   +1 action   
   Gain 2 Produce   

$5   Seeds - Treasure   
   $2          
   When you play this, it's worth an additional $2 for each Produce or Bushel in play

$5   Food Fight - Action - Attack - Reaction            
   Reaction: When you would gain a card, you may reveal this and instead gain a Produce into your hand
   Action Either: trash up to 2 Produce: opponents gain a curse for each Produce trashed OR    Gain 2 Produce

$6   Harvest-Time    - Treasure
   $2          
   When you play this card, gain a card worth up to the number of Produce currently in play, and were trashed this turn

$6   Harvest Market - Action      
   +1 action, +1 card, +1 coin   
   Gain 1 Produce   
   Costs $2 less for each Produce in play, but no less than $0

[FishingVillage]

So... Produce will take up space in the supply? I think it'd be cleaner to make it be separate from the supply like Potions, but okay. It's also really weird that nobody can buy and keep Produce o_O I don't know if this counts as broken but Produce + Goons would be hilarious to see (players could choose to spend extra Buys on Produce instead of Coppers and the Produce will bounce themselves back).

I'll comment on the other cards later when I can, just the way Produce works seems really weird to me.

[dondon151]

Wouldn't it be easier to say that you can't buy this card (Produce)?

[petrie911]

Would it work to just give it no cost?  You can't pay an unpayable cost, and it should work fine with trash for benefit, since its cost in coins would be 0.

[Boldot]

I suppose I can change the wording on Produce to just "You cannot buy this card" instead.
The goal is that it can only be gained through gaining card mechanics.  I do want it gainable through other gain mechanics (remodel), and trashable through other game mechanics (again, remodal).
I just want to avoid people having extra buys, and grabbing them up.

Also, if I wasn't clear, my intention is that they are quite similar to potions, in that they are in addition to everything else you set up (not part of the 10 kingdom cards), sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Kirian]

The main problem I see here is... well, the basic mechanic, alas.

First, cards that gain Produce are useless without cards that use it, and vice versa.  Barn and Orchard are useless in the supply without at least one of the other cards; Silo, Stove, Farmer's Market, Market Stand, Barn Raising, Homestead, Harvest Moon, Harvest Festival, Seeds, Harvest Time are all useless without at least one of the other cards.  That's half your cards that can't be inserted individually into another set.  And yes, I know you say "use 5 or more of these, and it's tuned for all 10," but that makes it not so much of an "expansion" as a "different game using Dominion mechanics."

But setting that aside:  second, the Produce cards are going to be a problem.  In order to match up a Produce card with a card that uses it, you need a good amount of Produce.  That means lots of Produce gainers would be needed early on, and by the time you have enough to reliably match Produce with a Produce-using card, your opponent, playing basic BM, is already buying Golds and working toward Provinces.  The only good early gainers are Barn, Oxen, Wagon, and Town; if none of those is in the supply, a Produce strategy is almost certainly doomed.  The most you can get on one turn without those is 1 Produce; once you have 15 cards, you need 3 "user" cards to reliably use that Produce every shuffle.  So in order to get the benefits of the Produce mechanic, you need to have purchased three or four cards from this set, then gotten through at least two shuffles, more likely three.

And in the meantime, if there is a good gainer card, your deck is clogged with Produce.

I just don't see how this could work without lots and lots of changes, not the least of which would be to consider a Produce token rather than a card.  Even with that, almost every card needs both a way to gain Produce and a way to use it.

Or, you could just let players buy the cards outright, which solves some (but not nearly all) of the problem.

[Boldot]

Hmm... some serious food for thought there.

My first idea keeping the mechanics basically the same (which still has its issues), would be you start with 2-3 Produce instead of copper when using cards from Agriculture, and allow you to buy them at cost $0.  With some re-work on the cards so that they can always at least do SOMETHING when you don't have a Produce in hand, so you don't get any "dead" cards (Everything with a trash Produce gets the "Either" treatment).
This helps the early part, so you don't have to go through 2 shuffles minimum before you can use things.



The other idea running around my head right now, is make Produce a new "Type" of card ("Goods" type, allows for other cards to use the same mechanic?).  You could play "Goods" during your action phase, and they don't require an action to play, and Produce simply has "+1 Card" on it, still costing $0, and allowing people to buy them.  Reword all the cards to "Trash n Produce from Play" rather than from your hand, and instead of gaining them to your hand, directly into play so you don't get the extra draw.

$0   Produce - Goods
   +1 Card
   When this card is trashed, return it to the supply instead.
   15 Produce per player in supply

This makes it so they don't clog up the deck, and they don't interact with other card type specific cards (TR/KC/Mine/Thief/etc...).  Probably still need to rework some of the cards so that they at least have some usefulness when you don't have any Produce.  It still gets the "have to get them through drawing" mechanic I wanted over using tokens. 

Might make Gardens too strong though.

[jonts26]

I'm sure it would need a lot of balancing, but what if you just replaced the copper stack with produce. Make them behave like coppers (treasure with $1). But the Agriculture cards can interact with them in special ways.

EDIT: ok thats actually a stupid idea. You basically have no need of a produce card and you just have an expansion which makes use of coppers.

[FishingVillage]

Yeah to echo Kirian's sentiments, Produce seems to be a Copper with restrictions and very high coupling with other cards

Certainly the benefits for using/trashing Produce with the other cards are pretty good, but I have to gain them first, and dealing with hands filled with Produce and Copper will really suck. On the other hand, if I shuffle and draw a Stove and 4 Produce, I've hit a massive jackpot! Variance is fine, but it seems as though some of these cards can't do anything at all unless you have Produce handy. For instance, Baron can be a little infuriating, but the benefit for drawing it with an Estate is very good, and even without an Estate in hand, it can gain an Estate, which increases your chances of getting the Baron together with an Estate. Tournament can be really infuriating as well, but even with no Provinces involved it's +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, which is still fairly useful for $4.

You posted this while I was fiddling with my post:

Hmm... some serious food for thought there.

My first idea keeping the mechanics basically the same (which still has its issues), would be you start with 2-3 Produce instead of copper when using cards from Agriculture, and allow you to buy them at cost $0.  With some re-work on the cards so that they can always at least do SOMETHING when you don't have a Produce in hand, so you don't get any "dead" cards (Everything with a trash Produce gets the "Either" treatment).
This helps the early part, so you don't have to go through 2 shuffles minimum before you can use things.



The other idea running around my head right now, is make Produce a new "Type" of card ("Goods" type, allows for other cards to use the same mechanic?).  You could play "Goods" during your action phase, and they don't require an action to play, and Produce simply has "+1 Card" on it, still costing $0, and allowing people to buy them.  Reword all the cards to "Trash n Produce from Play" rather than from your hand, and instead of gaining them to your hand, directly into play so you don't get the extra draw.

$0   Produce - Goods
   +1 Card
   When this card is trashed, return it to the supply instead.
   15 Produce per player in supply

This makes it so they don't clog up the deck, and they don't interact with other card type specific cards (TR/KC/Mine/Thief/etc...).  Probably still need to rework some of the cards so that they at least have some usefulness when you don't have any Produce.  It still gets the "have to get them through drawing" mechanic I wanted over using tokens. 

Might make Gardens too strong though.

Personally I like idea 1 more than idea 2. Making the cards have less dependency would be a good direction, being able to buy Produce would be great if no gaining cards are available in the supply to get them, and having some Produce to begin with in your deck will also reduce the number of turns to burn on getting Produce.