Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Probably inaccurate power predictions  (Read 10176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

padlock

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2016, 11:47:19 am »
+1

I really like the setup affect of Tax, but unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing much use in actually buying it.

It costs you 1 buy and 2 coins to, at best, give another player 2 debt (if they actually buy a card from the chosen pile).

That seems like a bad trade off in a 2 player game, and even worse with 3 or 4 players. What am I missing?
Logged

tailred

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Shuffle iT Username: ceviri
  • Respect: +294
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2016, 12:18:11 pm »
0

If the 1 buy 2 coins would've otherwise gone unspent ($7, 2 buys where you really want a 5, for example) it's not too bad.
Logged

crj

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 467
  • Respect: +565
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2016, 12:42:00 pm »
0

I'm assuming Tax is more powerful than it looks.

My reasoning is thus: If it isn't more powerful than it looks, it would have had +1 Buy on it. (-8
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1114
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1699
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2016, 12:47:53 pm »
0

Well, tax itself makes it more likely that you end up with 2$ 1Buy:
I open Remake, and then next turn, no good 2$... might as well Tax Remake. (and the cycle goes on...)  ;)
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2901
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2388
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2016, 01:42:46 pm »
0

I played one have with it. It seems to hear it's uses. I think it's decent, better than Embargo for sure.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2901
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2388
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2016, 04:56:53 pm »
+1

Okay, so now, here are my Landmark predictions. I will say this, seeing as how Landmarks are a very new mechanic, it's hard to predict how much impact they will have. Overall, though, I think most of them will change little how the game is played except for less experienced Dominion players. When talking about power, I will be more focusing on how much of an impact I expect a certain Landmark to have on the game.

Aqueduct: In engine games, I think the amount of VP to gain will be low. It might be worth it to pick up an early green card if there is 3 or 4 VP on it. Great Hall essentially becomes better than Distant Lands. I think if you can buy an Island or Great Halls or something that doesn't interfere with your deck, the points will be nice. Will it put you much ahead of your opponent, maybe a little, but usually the player who builds has the advantage. For BM, I think getting an early Province is probably right, especially if a lot of tokens have piled up on it. Verdict: Minor impact in Engine Games. Huge Impact on BM and Slog games.

Arena: I don't think this changes much. You might want to open double terminal with this, but perhaps you already wanted to do so already. Verdict: Players will likely split points most games. Minor Impact

Bandit Fort: For BM games, this will change how you play. I think a Duchy/slogish thing is very likely to play out with this on the board. For engines, if you need to open Silver to hit $5, you're still opening Silver. Verdict: Zero impact on Engines. Dramatically changes BM games.

Basilica: Like Arena, this will be something you sometimes do just because you have $2 leftover. I guess if you have $6 and are contemplating over an Ironmonger or some $5-cost, you might take another Ironmonger for the points. I can also see in Engine games especially, taking these points over buying a Duchy since they don't clog the deck. Verdict: Some Impact on Engine games. Minor Impact BM games. Some Impact on Slog games since there will be a few times where you only have $2 anyway

Baths: Again, engines might want to not gain something to get the points rather than buy a Duchy. Mission likes this, but I have a hard time seeing this as being overall too impactful. Verdict: Minor impact on Engine and BM games. Some impact on slogs.

Battlefield: Encourages early greening in BM games. However, I think there are still enough points to go around, so you should probably just buy that gold if you need it. For Engine, do you really want to green early for an extra two points? I think not. I guess Great Halls get a very nice buff though. My overall impression though is this will have a minor impact on the game.

Colonnade: Okay, this is for engines pretty much. I think this will have some impact on those games. You might decide to get another Ironmonger rather than something else since well, you get two points with it since you already have one in play. Verdict: Some Impact in engines. Little to no impact in BM and slogs.

Defiled Shrine: Another enginey Landmark. Okay, I can see this being pretty big. I mean, I can imagine lots of points piling up and you can get a free province if you are willing to have a curse in your deck. Verdict: Big Impact on most (but not all) engine games. Little impact on slog and BM games.

Fountain: 15 VP is a lot. The existence of this card will change how you approach a board. You might even trash all your coppers, but that 15 VP will always be in your mind. For BM, going out of your way to buy a copper is okay. Beggar is a decent card to get. Cache is great. Slogs probably had a couple extra coppers, so there. Verdict: Will have an impact on the majority of boards this shows up.

Keep: I don't know. I think most players will be happy to tie, but if its the end game, you might be able to get an extra silver or gold and take away some points from the other player. Actually, for that reason, I think this will have the biggest impact in engine games where you have enough extra buys and gains to get extra treasure to deny your opponent the points. Verdict: Impact on many engine boards. Minor impact on slog and BM boards.

Labyrinth: For this to work you need to be playing an engine. I can see some players buying an extra copper off Squire for the points. That sounds silly. Overall, if you were gaining cards, you were gaining cards. Verdict: Minor impact on engine

Mountain Pass: Okay, this Landmark is crazy. I mean, geese, how the hell do you figure out the right bid amount. Anyway, no matter what, this card will almost always have an impact. Rebuild might just bid 40 since getting 8 Points is hard in those games. I mean you're likely not buying Province in a Rebuild game. 8 points is a decent amount even in engine games. It's a lot in most games, period. Goons just laughs and maybe you bid $1. lol Verdict: Major impact on most boards

Museum: Hello Fairgrounds. I guess if you're playing an engine, you might go out of the way to get a card you didn't have, but if the card is total junk then maybe Duchy is better. Verdict: Impact on some engine boards

Obelisk: ?? Man, I don't know. I guess it depends on the pile. 2 VP thiefs sound unappealing to me. If it's Caravan, I probably wanted it anyway. Verdict: Minor Impact in most games

Orchard: Another engine card. I guess in some games, you will buy a third Ambassador since that is worth more than a Duchy. You are also likely to build longer to make sure you get 3 copies of any card that won't hurt your deck. Verdict: Some impact in engine games.

Palace: This will have a bigger impact in BM games where you probably have a lot of Silver, so any gold you buy ends up being worth 3 points. Yah, I will take gold over Duchy. In engines, you might buy an extra gold or two since, well, gold is better than Duchy. Or, maybe you have gold, but no silver, so you get Silver. Makes sense. Verdict: Reasonable impact on BM games. Minor impact on engine games.

Tomb: You were already trashing your cards. Verdict: In engines, you might try to go out of your way to buy an extra copper or two each turn to trash. Works well with Fortress. I can see Fortress, Donate, Tomb being a thing. Verdict: Some impact in engine games.

Tower: I played with this twice, actually. I don't think it changes much. 1 VP is not really that much. I guess it encourages to load up on cantrips, but you were probably doing that already. This does change curses pretty much into ruined villages. Verdict: Some impact in engine games

Triumphal Arch: You better be tracking your deck. I think in engines this will have some impact. But, you have to be careful and make sure you don't miscount your actions. 3 VP per copy of a card is a lot though.

Wall: Honestly, I have no idea. I think in games without trashing, you will just play Dominion like usual and end up with a negative score. With engines, trashing got even better, but weren't you trashing anyway?

Wolf Den: I feel this will have little impact. Sometimes, there are cards you want copy of. Do you really go out of your way to get an extra copy that will just gum up your engine. My hunch is no. Verdict: Minor impact on some engine boards.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5326
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • Alta
  • Respect: +3101
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2016, 05:09:56 pm »
+2



Might as well put this here, since I don't want to rewrite what I think of all the cards. I'll probably do another video when I'm a lot more familiar with the cards.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6741
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9119
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2016, 01:53:17 am »
+1

Might as well put this here, since I don't want to rewrite what I think of all the cards. I'll probably do another video when I'm a lot more familiar with the cards.

Thanks for posting this! I've watched most of it, and it's been fun times. I'm up to Donate, and will watch the rest tomorrow. Two mistakes I noticed, though.

1. Advance/Rats isn't really a combo, because even if you draw a Treasure from trashing Rats, you can't play it. You already bought Advance, so you're done playing Treasures for the turn (unless you buy a Villa).

2. The game can only ever end at the end of a turn, and Donate's effects happen between turns. This means that even if you do trigger an end-game condition with Donate (like trashing your Hunting Grounds to pile out the Estates when two other piles are empty), the next player still gets another turn before the game ends! (And they could return cards to a pile to prevent the game ending, etc., etc., Dominion amirite?) So I mean you might still do it, but be careful.
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 309
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +261
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2016, 01:56:52 am »
0

What I think are the best cards in the expansion:
Legionary: Not only is it better than discard to 3, it gives you $3. And it works nice with topdeck mucking(Scrying Pool/Spy/Sea Hag). I'd buy it if it only gave $2, or if it cost $6.
Overlord: Better than Band of Misfits because it can emulate $5 costs. It's actually really big on some boards to be able to force a 5/2 split for yourself at the cost of 1 debt.
Villa: Going to be an explosive tactics card, for sure. Like, it's a Village for effectively $3 if you're getting 2 cards, and you get to play it instantly. And of course there's ways to just loop and loop and get all of them.
Enchantress: Not only a good attack against stuff like Smithy BM, it gives 2 starting cards; better than +2 cards because it's "nonterminal" i.e. you can draw an Action with them and play it next turn.
Donate: Basically invalidates junkers and all other trashers, and possibly worth opening with. Donate BM is actually pretty fast, and I shudder to consider facing Legionary-Donate on a 5/2 start, or any other 5 cost that could deny me my 5.
Encampment: For that 16.7% of the time you can open 5/2 with this. Or if your ideal end deck hates Silver but needs an opening. Or if you have Buys and a little money to spare. Don't necessarily see people buying Plunder much though.
Castles: Games will be decided by who gets which Castles. You have to have a pretty strong strategy of your own to completely ignore them, since they have such synergy. Sniping one is almost mandatory, two possibly.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 01:58:59 am by ephesos »
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 309
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +261
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2016, 02:08:36 am »
+4


1. Advance/Rats isn't really a combo, because even if you draw a Treasure from trashing Rats, you can't play it. You already bought Advance, so you're done playing Treasures for the turn (unless you buy a Villa).

Don't know about that, I think the important part is it's a very good way to trash Rats for benefit. Sure, you don't really get the +Card, but you still got an Action costing up to 6, and hey, that Rats you trashed probably used to be an Estate. Would be really fun to Seaway Rats and burn your whole deck into Rats, then buy 10 Advances and recreate it with the best Actions.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2359
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2799
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2016, 08:11:39 am »
+4

1. Advance/Rats isn't really a combo, because even if you draw a Treasure from trashing Rats, you can't play it. You already bought Advance, so you're done playing Treasures for the turn (unless you buy a Villa).

Advance / Rats is Definitely A Thing, it just doesn't make use of the on-trash draw. Converting all your junk to junk actions and then converting junk actions into good ones can be really good.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

bedlam

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
  • Respect: +71
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2016, 11:40:33 am »
+2

My first game with Empires included Baths as the landmark and Overlord. Everyone (4p) bought overlord with their first or second buy and cashed in on baths for their next two turns while paying down debt. Don't know if it was a powerful move, but we all appreciated having baths when debt is on hand.
Logged

Orange

  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 251
  • Shuffle iT Username: Orange
  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2016, 08:44:02 am »
+1

I really like the setup affect of Tax, but unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing much use in actually buying it.

It costs you 1 buy and 2 coins to, at best, give another player 2 debt (if they actually buy a card from the chosen pile).

That seems like a bad trade off in a 2 player game, and even worse with 3 or 4 players. What am I missing?

2 player game, I've got a 1-0 Province lead.  My opponent buys 2 Castles.  I have $8 and 4 Buys next turn...and now Castles have 8 debt on them.  Not sure if it was the right play, but it was fun!
Logged

Roadrunner7671

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1844
  • Shuffle iT Username: Roadrunner7672
  • Forum Mafia Record: 17-32-2
  • Respect: +1317
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2016, 08:47:37 am »
0

@Seprix is that on Youtube?
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1428
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2016, 09:20:46 am »
+4

@Seprix is that on Youtube?

You mean the Youtube video he linked? Good question....
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Roadrunner7671

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1844
  • Shuffle iT Username: Roadrunner7672
  • Forum Mafia Record: 17-32-2
  • Respect: +1317
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2016, 10:27:20 am »
0

@Seprix is that on Youtube?

You mean the Youtube video he linked? Good question....
It's been a slow morning.
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5326
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • Alta
  • Respect: +3101
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2016, 11:09:29 am »
0

@Seprix is that on Youtube?

Yes. It's my secondary channel where I stream things. I don't use Twitch.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1428
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2016, 07:07:19 pm »
+4

My set will be coming next week(Time it took me to write=travel time U.S.->Germany), so this is the last chance to make my inaccurate power predictions. I don't want to miss the chance to be embarrassed in the future by looking back on these.

General comments: After Adventures was released, quite a few people complained about power creep in Dominion. I'm not at all surprised that those guys stayed silent this time around, most of the cards look very nicely balanced, even though VP chips are a mechanic that can get easily out of hand (looking at you, Goons!) Overall I think the fun/strength ratio is really great for this expansion, coming from someone who doesn't like its spirtual predecessor very much (compared to other expansions, of course!)

I'll be ordering the cards on how certain I am of my prediction from "I have no clue how strong these are" at the top to "I am even less sure about these" at the bottom. Rating will be strength, not how much I like them.

Engineer: Looks like an okay gainer, around Armory level. It can't gain itself but I don't think that is much of an issue, but I don't think the bonus is good enough that you'll get it more often than you would take another gainer in the same place. The biggest uncertainty is whether it is good to make use of the passive often and rebuying Engineers, I have no idea how good this is. 5/10

City Quarter: One of my favourite cards already. Draw and Village in one card? I suppose you really like other nonterminal draw or trashing to get going, but afterwards 2 or 3 of these seem amazing. It is pretty expensive, though and the debt probably doesn't help too much at the point where you want this but it's still nice to get them exactly on the turn you need it. 9,5/10

Farmers' Market: Meh. The card doesn't look strong very strong, I like how it rewards deck control, though. It seems like playing smart with this card (whatever that means) feels pretty rewarding. Probably mostly interesting if you need the +buy from it and the mindgames surrounding it. 4,0/10

Sacrifice: Decent trashing, albeit it looks slow to me to get rid of your starting cards. On the plus side, +2 coins is one of the better things you get for trashing treasures so you won't be that sad drawing four coppers with it. Also it's seems pretty good to make use of the action card benefits if you manage that. 6,5/10

Chariot Race: Epitome of "ok". Maybe there is great support for it but that seems rare. The bonus is nice to have and the card doesn't hurt so it's probably a decent card to pick up on three but not a game changer. My pick of most overrated card in the set. 5,0/10

Royal Blacksmith: Draw is good, right? Looks a bit sad compared to other draw if you have coppers otherwise it's going to be very, very nice. 8/10

Patrician/Emporium: Eh. You don't want Patricians particularly early, you don't want overpriced Peddlers late so the VP better be worth it. I just don't see it working out. Buying Patricians early probably only happens if you hit two a lot and that means your deck is probably garbage which means getting five actions in play is a challenge. I really can't imagine how the five Patricians go away (okay, Aventurer tokens, maybe Goons) early enough for Emporium to matter. 3,5/10

Temple:strong trashing becomes very weak trashing when you have only coppers left. Atleast you can trash additional temples you are forced to gain with some vp on them. 5/10

Capital: Not a fan. Besides the obvious combos where you don't need to discard the card it looks like not the hottest card. I'm a fan of the debt concept in general, however I don't consider it that strong that you want to pay $5 just for having money one turn earlier for a net benefit of zero. Also okay for spiking expensive stuff, but how much of those are in the game, really? 4,5/10

Gladiator/Fortune: Fortune sounds very cool to me but playing gladiator looks like a pain. I wonder if you there are boards where you ignore Gladiator and just never reveal cards to mill the gladiators. It saves you the terminal space and your opponent has his terminal space occupied and only get +$1 as a reward. No matter how you get there, after getting to Fortune the game probably gets pretty explosive, it should make up for the weakness of Gladiators. 8/10

Wild Hunt: Another favourite of mine. Overdrawing is needed to pick up the points, in the engine that plays pretty straightforwardly. I guess you can't really leave 4VP on the pile if your opponent can add four of them aswell and take the points. Estate flood is no good either, though so you better get to use them for other stuff. Some interesting decisions for a Wild Hunt BM mirror, maybe a simulator will answer the optimal play there ;) 7/10

Charm: Another one of those gainers that doesn't outstay its welcome. Good with multiple $5 costs (Charm is one of them, fortunately) Looks definitely inferior to HoP altough that doesn't say much. 6,5/10

Crown: I'm one of the people who rates Throne Room a lot stronger than the average (according to Qvist rankings) so Crown can't be all that bad for $5. I can't help but wonder how many treasures actually make use out of this, I think it's more of a reliability thing and it doesn't get drawn dead. Overall above average, but not by much. 6/10

Legionary: This attack just seems so cruel. There are quite a few engines where you need three cards in your starting hand which you can't guarantee anymore. I suppose mirrors will work similar to Ghost ship mirrors; the attack will prevent repeated activation of Legionary every turn. If you manage to play it every turn, it's devastating. Question: Would you ever activate a second Legionary in a turn? And if so, what could be the reason? 8/10

Forum: It's like playing double Fugitive, awesome. The first sifter in the Kingdom that doesn't make you feel bad about playing it. Instead, it makes you feel bad about buying it. It competes with other $5 costs, so you better really need the cycling. Your $12 Herbalist becomes a $2 Herbalist so that's pretty nice, altough I'm skeptical this situatio occurs far too often (having $5 to spare). So yeah it's starting to get really hard to assess these. 7/10

Settlers/Bustling Village: The good thing is that Settlers can actually be useful. However, it's still weird to build an engine where the villages become available so late. I hope that the strength of BuV makes up for that, though. Especially cause having several Settlers is quite rewarding with BuV's. Nonetheless, spending five turns on buying Settlers slows down significantly, so it's pure speculation on my part. 7,5/10

Overlord: I'm not so sure about this one. You can always open witha five cost, so that's kinda cool. Besides that, how good is the versatility really? Probably pretty nice on boards where you want to play a lot of fives in a specific order, but mostly it just looks "ok" to me. 5,5/10

Encampment/Plunder: I don't think Plunder is that strong that you are happy about covering the pile up. Lost Cities are great though so I suppose you are happy with picking up a Gold at some point. Hard to say how good a one-shot LC is without the opportunity of keeping them 6,5/10

Villa: On gain bonus obviously crazy, the village afterwards pretty mediocre. No idea how good this can get. 7/10

Catapult/Rocks: Very Slow trashing, very slow attack. Doesn't look very strong at first glance. The attack is pretty strong though, so Silver gainers are more welcome than usual. It's probably pretty good aswell if it's the only trasher and you need to thin. I don't see Rocks coming into a 2p game ever, unless a fairy steals three catapults or something. 4,5/10

Archive: Another utility card that costs 5. Really hard to determine the strengths for me. Aslong as you don't have ambition to draw your deck, this seems very good, otherwise it's obviously not cool. Generally I'm a fan of utility cards and hopefully this will be one of the better ones, maybe even making engines possible that haven't before (without trashing) 7,5/10

Enchantress: One of the most novel mechanics since Inheritance so I can only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Obviously cheap actions and action density is stuff you need to counter it, otherwise it's hard to assess how hurtful it can get. The +2 cards are pretty good regardless, though. 6,5/10

Groundskeeper: I'm biased towards the best case scenario with this card, emptying estates for like 50 points while the stupid province player buys all of these expensive green cards. That probably doesn't happen very often, so on average it doesn't look that good to me since it does nothing for you basically. If you can gain them effortlessly they are still fine with less buys, otherwise probably rather mediocre 5,5/10

Castles: After being awed by the pile and its different cards, I'm much more skeptical about them now. You can gain like 45 points if you get all of them, but not 22 if you split them. Maybe the strength of the castles really results from being so bad on their own that denying is much less worth than it looks like. I really hope I'm wrong about these 3,5/10


Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5326
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • Alta
  • Respect: +3101
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2016, 08:01:49 pm »
0

Yes, Castles seem more and more awful the longer I've studied them.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

faust

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1781
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +2399
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2016, 07:25:15 pm »
+3

Question: Would you ever activate a second Legionary in a turn? And if so, what could be the reason? 8/10
Chariot Race. Man, make them draw that stupid Province on top of their deck. In general, if you know that their top card is bad (because Rabble etc.), then having them discard one of their probably good 3 cards for it is a decent move.

Groundskeeper: I'm biased towards the best case scenario with this card, emptying estates for like 50 points while the stupid province player buys all of these expensive green cards. That probably doesn't happen very often, so on average it doesn't look that good to me since it does nothing for you basically. If you can gain them effortlessly they are still fine with less buys, otherwise probably rather mediocre 5,5/10
I really think that assessment is off. A good comparison is Distant Lands; if you can expect to buy 4 or more green cards before the game ends, then this is better than Distant Lands, and well, DL is already a very decent card. Groundskeeper has the additional advantage of making the Estate alt-VP strategy viable.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5326
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • Alta
  • Respect: +3101
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2016, 07:27:17 pm »
0

Rabble Legionary is a scary pseudo pin.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

SirSlugma

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 93
  • Respect: +95
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2016, 08:03:52 pm »
0

I think Groundskeeper probably looks a little better in Empires-heavy games, but that said, I still think it's really good.  It's a $5 cost that you can't afford to significantly lose the split on in most boards.
Logged

kieranmillar

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Shuffle iT Username: kieranmillar
  • Respect: +122
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2016, 05:27:44 pm »
+2

While this thread is of course primarily for predictions before you play with Empires, I wanted to give my thoughts on all the cards after only having played a few games, and this seems like an appropriate place! So there's a bit of experience behind this analysis, but very little in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not voting out of 10 because it's seems pointlessly granular. Ratings from 1-5 should be fine. I'd like to say the ratings are purely strength based but as a fallible human being exciting cards are probably biased towards higher ratings. There's a lot of speculation in these despite my preferred writing style maybe appearing in a bit of a factual tone at times.

Only the kingdom cards today, because this took a long time to write.

Debt

Engineer: Workshop that can trash itself for an extra gain. Ehh. Maybe the on-trash might help you to win a crucial split or get a card slightly earlier but for the most part it's going to play exactly like workshop, with the same decisions behind when you actually want one or not. And workshop is fairly average so this is as well. 3/5

City Quarter: This card is bonkers. You only need about 3 and with a bit of trashing you'll be mostly drawing your deck reasonably consistently in no time. Which is good, because they're expensive but wow it's so worth it. Your engine just explodes once you add a few of these. The debt cost is also nice when bonus buys don't come easily as it's easier to justify a single larger payment. With a little bit of support like a few labs or forums to grease the wheels kicking off is really easy. If it's the only village available though, you are not going to be able to buy lots of them so you'll need to lower your expectations on how many terminals you add, as the large cost to add more of them will definitely start to cause issues. 5/5

Overlord: It's going to be an extremely rare board where you don't want these. The flexibility is really really good and you have no issue playing exactly the right power card at exactly the right time. If you have a board with no villages but an important terminal like Witch and at least one cantrip, you can just get about 3 of these and have no issues playing the witch nearly every turn from turn 3 onwards, while not having to worry much about terminal collision. It's just so good. Buying this on your second opening buy and being in debt for 2 or 3 turns can easily be the right call. Village/terminal draw engines have almost no reliability issues at all (although you still want to buy some of the cheaper components, of course). Biggest problems it has are all-terminal boards, and those boards where the gains are so fast and strong that the important piles empty fast, which neuters the card a bit. 4/5

Royal Blacksmith: The powerful draw makes this a lot like City Quarter, except with the obvious differences that it's not a village. Both cards want the coppers out, but Royal Blacksmith needs village support but can also work better in engines with treasure payload, or that are being discard attacked each turn. So similar but perhaps a bit weaker overall, although perhaps this comparison is pointless because odds are low you'll have both in the kingdom right? Still very powerful, +5 cards is huge! 4/5

$2

Encampment / Plunder: Plunder probably comes a bit too late to make a huge difference but points are points and it makes for a great payload. The real rockstar here is Encampment, which is so easy to just keeping picking up incidentally even when putting them back. Lost city effects are really good that a one-shot for 2 is still great, and when you do get to keep them it's just insanely good value. The pile is really neutered without bonus buys or gainers though, but it's still a good card to buy on a dud $2 turn. Would you buy an event for $2 that gives you an extra card and action next turn? Yeah you would! 4/5

Patrician / Emporium: Seems hard to get use out of these but 2 points for a $5 peddler adds up! I feel that this pile will largely go untouched unless the players have enough incidental $2 buys to lower the Patricians enough that it's worth emptying them for the Emporiums. You don't want to specifically piledrive the entire pile just to get at the Emporiums, they aren't that good. 2/5

Settlers / Bustling Village: Don't know how I feel about these. The Settlers are actually not very good at all and piledriving them to get at the villages can be slow and have a big opportunity cost. The villages are really good, but they come late and when you do get them you can have reliability issues because you won't have many. I feel like this is not a village that is friendly for terminal draw. An example kingdom where I could imagine going for this would also include City Quarter and Farmer's Market, you have a +buy payload you can get early, want to increase your action density with cheap cantrips and need a boost to your otherwise meagre +actions. I can see myself ignoring these more often than I'd hope to. 2/5

$3

Castles: I have a lot to say about these. I think a lot of Alt-VP piles are an alternate way to score while ignoring provinces entirely, or at least not getting very many. But with Castles you can't do that, this is an Alt-VP that wants boards where you're going for Provinces anyway and this is a powerful supplement. Everyone knows that while the maximum possible score is huge, it's impossible to get all of those points in practice, but that's not really the point. I think that while these can be used in more of a treasure-heavy non-engine deck, it's the powerful engines where these will really shine. The better engine can put themselves in a really strong end-game position, and there's the real power. What you want is a deck-drawing engine with the ability to double province and have 3 or 4 buys and then just buy the first 3 or 4 castles all at once, and then next turn buy until there are 3 left and grab what ever your opponent leaves you on your next turn (they aren't going to be able to get all 3 without the small castle). This is so many points, and if you also manage to get Opulent castle the amount of money you can generate is huge and should be in a position to triple-province or slam the duchies. What you absolutely don't want to do is start buying the cheap ones early because not only are the first two not all that good but small castle is such an easy counter if your opponent gets it, it's the real power castle that lets you control the pile. Note: I have not actually had the chance to build such an engine in a two player game so this is very speculative. Anyways, this will not come into play on a fair number of games but when it does it heavily rewards the player with the stronger engine that can position themselves for the end-game first and ups the points enough to let them build a bit longer, so that's nice. 4/5

Catapult / Rocks: I really do not like these cards. They seem so bad! Catapult is like a militia, but instead of having a good turn while hurting your opponent, you militia yourself as well in order to trash a copper. It's like Miser except after all the copper trashing you don't have a powerful terminal payload card that generates enormous sums of cash. and if your opponent does go for catapult I think you should not follow suit and go for something less reliant on trashing, because if you do your gonna have these turns where you play catapult and have like only $2 or $3 to spend and it's just rubbish. The cursing seems entirely incidental because it's really really difficult to throw loads of curses their way without haemorrhaging your deck at a time when it actually matters and one or two curses is no big deal. Sure there are boards where you want to open Trade Route, but Trade Route is not a high barrier to meet. 1/5

Chariot Race: Sometimes you want those cantrips, but you really cannot build an engine around scoring points consistently with this. It's better than nothing, and the points can matter, but it's obvious when a cantrip is a better buy than silver and that's really the time when you pick them up. Also beware of debt-cost cards in the same kingdom, they KO this card with annoying frequency. 2/5

Enchantress: The duration effect is really nice, and the attack can be utterly devastating or basically no big deal. The attack hurts the most in those decks where the cards are very expensive and/or somewhat unreliable, like Bustling Village + Royal Blacksmith. You want these when you've got the spare action space or when it's really obvious that the attack is gonna be a big deal and well, that's all I have to say really. 3/5

Farmer's Market: I think people are underestimating this a bit, because VP chips are really good. Having said that, it's sort of like a strange monument/woodcutter combo that is terminal payload but definitely on the weak side. I think where this will really shine are those boards with loads of buys and gains like talisman and you can suddenly grab a load of these with villages and then get a bunch of points and money, but the board would have to have lots of gains basically being the only thing going for it, like a weak engine but there's stonemason, you know? I think it's on the weak side of average but will be relevant slightly more often than people give credit for. 3/5

Gladiator / Fortune: Holy smokes I was not prepared for this! Fortune is absolutely ludicrous! Imagine a board with no draw but everyone is double-provincing anyway, that's the power of Fortune! And Gladiator is actually pretty decent on its own too with getting the extra coin not really all that hard to pull off, although maybe you don't want it in your opening buy? It's hard to put across in text how insane Fortune is without going all caps, and I refuse to do that. 5/5

$4

Sacrifice: Yeah it's slow but this is actually really powerful. Trashing your Estates is always good but getting 6 VP for it? Also I usually never want to trash action cards but late game I'm trashing them with this bad boy like there's no tomorrow, which you know, there isn't because the game's about to end, but yeah anyway the point is that this is a really solid trasher. No matter what you trash, you're having a good turn. Well, a reasonable one at least. 4/5

Temple: You absolutely cannot ignore this card. It adds so many points so fast it's crazy. For trashing all your junk you're getting 7 VP (a lot!) while also throwing another 7 VP into a pool that you really want to win. Buying more temples once there are about 3 VP chips on the pile is something you really want to do because that's a 6 VP swing right there, and this is going to happen about 5 or 6 times really early on in the game. Each temple after the first is therefore like a Provence but you can trash it for no loss, and get even more points for doing that! And all the while you are getting insane amounts of points you're making your deck really thin and good. I think you absolutely have to position your deck to buy a 4-cost at the drop of a hat if you can because there are so many points up for grabs and you have to try to win it. 5/5

Villa: This is a strong card and engines can be way more reliable when it's available to buy. It will make you want to prioritise getting terminal draw more so than usual. A lot has been said about this card already and yeah it's really nice. 4/5

$5

Archive: Non-terminal draw is really really good! And this is no exception. Anyway I have already written my thoughts about this here. 4/5

Capital: Ehhh. It has obvious cute combos but most of the time you want 5 cost cards most of all and therefore buying this 5-cost card that generates you $0 overall just isn't actually very good. A narrow card. 2/5

Charm: This is either a non-terminal woodcutter (which is decent) or gets you some good 5 or 4 costs. It's alright but the gaining effect has not really been as useful as I would have thought so far and is extremely board dependent. I know there were initial comparisons to Horn of Plenty but it's not really the same thing at all. 3/5

Crown: Throne Room is awesome, and this is no exception, because it's Throne Room that's usually at least a silver if it misses. Almost everything that applies to Throne Room applies here honestly except for some cute synergies and anti-synergies. A good card, but so is Throne Room. 4/5

Forum: Excellent sifter but a tad on the expensive side. That whole no-buy cost thing? You will only rarely take advantage of that. 3/5

Groundskeeper: Not really had a chance to play with this much yet so am unsure of its power. I think you only need to get 2 points from it to be worth buying over duchy because not adding a stop card can be worth the small point loss. I think this will mostly be a card to give you better end-game control and that's always great, but it's just enough on the expensive side that it might be a tough call, and it's not going to help you if you overbuy it on those games where the province split is crucial. So.... not sure. 3/5

Legionary: This attack is crazy strong and yeah it needs some setup and you have to work for it, but really a terminal gold at 5 cost is plenty fine on its own and ensuring you have at least 6 coin when you get the attack off is really strong. It's so hard to do anything reliably when you get hit by this attack that games with strong engines will be over once someone pulls this off consisitently, and in games without strong engines you still want to go for this anyway. 5/5

Wild Hunt: Wow so many points. Much like Temple, you have to go for this. It's very strong. Obviously there's the powerful terminal draw engine games where winning the split will be huge, but outside of those games you still want to play this a lot anyway because smithy-likes are really good usually anyway, and one that gives a ton of points is just even better. 5/5
Logged

kieranmillar

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Shuffle iT Username: kieranmillar
  • Respect: +122
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2016, 09:21:36 am »
0

Time for part 2!

Events

Triumph: It's basically a Goons event except not as good. Really you want to get loads of buys then purchase a ton of coppers followed by as many of these as you can afford (and the last one doesn't need any money because it costs debt). It needs the right board with tons of buys to actually be worthwhile, but even then it's not always all that good. Seems quite narrow to me. 2/5

Annex: The 8 debt cost seems really steep for what you get. It gives you a Duchy, but it's still a pretty steep cost. I guess you would buy this if you hit 7 near the end of a shuffle while greening so you can not put some of your green in your next shuffle, but... eh. I'm not all that impressed with this. 2/5

Donate: It's as insane as everybody thinks it is. 5/5

Advance: Nice for getting up to 5 and 6 cost action cards quickly but I think it looks sexier than it really is. If you need lots of 5s then you're likely better off buying a silver or two instead of buying cheap actions just to convert them a shuffle later, because that's slow. It's really nice for letting you take more risks with opening two terminals, as a terminal collision is not so bad. 3/5

Delve: Silver flooding is usually a mediocre strategy because many silver gainers are just too slow, but this event is certainly better than Masterpiece and makes silver flooding very quick and easy. But even when not silver flooding its a nice way to spend a spare $2 and really keeps your economy going, so it's still useful with engines but way more restrained. I think this will impact pretty much every game it's in, but it's not going to be totally dominant very often. 4/5

Tax: The debt starting on the board is different and cool, but the event itself seems a bit pants, like an easier to use but much worse Embargo. 2/5

Banquet: I can see uses for this but being flooded with copper is so so bad most of the time, as we all learned from Cache. I think this is narrow and situational. 2/5

Ritual: Worth noting that trashing victory cards to Ritual is actually really poor, you usually break even or end up only 1 point ahead, which is a waste of time, and because you gain a curse doesn't even thin your deck. I think where this is most useful is trashing golds or actions in the late game for a last-minute point spike, but you're not always going to be able to pull that off easily. you definitely only want to trash something with a cost of $4 or higher. It seems like there is huge point potential here but you're going to need strong gaining or purchasing power I think. 3/5

Salt the Earth: On the one hand this seems nuts at first glance but on the other hand you really need to be substantially in the lead for it to be worth buying so its use only really comes into play right at the very end of the game. Obviously this card is all about positioning yourself into a strong end-game position with multiple buys and lots of money and so it brings that end game position a lot sooner sometimes. It also has some possible synergies with winning splits on strong alt-VP piles or shutting down some alternate strategies. It seems to help close the game early for the player with the stronger engine, but that person might have won anyway? Gauging the real impact of this seems tough. 3/5

Wedding: Gold for 4 is nice, and getting a point with your gold is nice, but in practice this is much more exciting looking than it really is. I think this is going to be overrated by newer players and in practice isn't going to be all that important. Allows you to get away with thinning more aggressively though as it's easier to buy decent payload, you only need to keep around 2 silvers instead of 3. Feels low impact to me in the grand scheme of things. 2/5

Windfall: This is either really crazy or totally useless, and it's usually quite obvious when either is the case. You need either super good trashing or really strong draw, and in the former case it adds payload so fast that you don't really need much else, so it seems like it might make those games a bit dull. Was going to rate it 4 but the games where it is totally useless stick out in my mind enough to drop its rating. 3/5

Conquest: This is really good for big-money silver flooding type strategies, although you do want to start picking up Provinces whenever you can because buying one of these per turn is not that fast in terms of points. I think it can work in an engine too but in more limited capacity, you actually want to buy this multiple times in a single turn and only one turn of doing that, as other ways to get silver during a turn are quite hard and if you can buy 4 of these that's 20 points for $24, so a bit like colonies, except you get 8 silver instead of two green cards. Sure in that case you don't really want the silver but it really helps you green reliably so that's probably why you want to do it once? I dunno. Seems powerful but the more I think about it the less powerful it seems? 3/5

Dominate: This is so many points, it's mad. But if the engine is weak it's quite easy to snipe Provinces from under it, but even so I think this is worth going for more often than not and 15 points all at once is enormous. I think that not having the Platinum around for this event will mean that this is not the right call more often than that is the case for Colonies, but it's still really good. It's only not getting 5 because it's not always so game-defining. 4/5

Landmarks

Aqueduct: Requires you to situationally dip into Duchies or nab an Estate. If you ignore this and your opponent goes Big Money they will rapidly accumulate lots of points but it's easy to stop while also buying you some more time to build if you're paying attention. It's there and forces your hand occasionally but overall doesn't feel like a huge deal. 3/5

Arena: Lets you take more risks with terminal collision, and then the points run out and it's business as usual. Might change the order you build your deck in slightly but not going to be all that important. 3/5

Bandit Fort: Massively punishing and game-warping, and heavily encourages even weak engines with lacklustre payload actions. Just don't be so scared that you forgo treasures entirely, sometimes you really need that Silver to get to $5, or that Gold to trigger Legionary. 5/5

Basilica: Rarely will this actively encourage you to buy cheaper cards, sometimes you will either go for more buys and economy earlier but often it will just randomly give you points and you will be like "oh OK". 2/5

Baths: Going to buy a wimpy 2-cost like Settlers or Pearl Diver? Stop. Take the points instead. Otherwise totally ignorable. Cards are good! Gain them! 2/5

Battlefield: Makes Action-Victory cards like Island and Great Hall quite good, and without those will encourage earlier greening. Makes a difference because the players have a lot of control over this and can change your strategy a bit. 4/5

Colonnade: When life gives you a colon, make colonnade? This card shouts build more! at you but you were gonna do that anyway, right? 3/5

Defiled Shrine: This can accumulate big points fast. Grab something like a woodcutter and be prepared to snipe points at a moment's notice, but the fact that you get a curse makes it tricky. Seems powerful on an engine board but might only be tie-breaker points to someone on lame Big Money boards. 4/5

Fountain: A no-brainer with no copper trashing but with trashing you're gonna need some strong draw if you go for this. I think this will be tricky to tell if it's worth it or not sometimes, which is fun, but how good is it really? Trashing is just so strong. 3/5

Keep: I don't think you can ignore this, and games will become treasure-heavy and there will be a lot of back and forth, with 5 or 10 point swings happening all the time. 5/5

Labyrinth: Well I guess I will go for that Workshop after all. 2/5

Mountain Pass: Throws an enormous and high-impact decision into the mix at a moment's notice, I think you really need to try and prepare yourself with the ability to generate decent money and then grab an early province if you can so you can be in a strong position to get a good deal for those points. If your opponent clearly isn't having very high-money turns and they bet big you can set them back multiple turns by letting them take the points and then crush them if there's a good engine, and if they don't want to take the risk you might get lots of points on the cheap. It's a lot of points, a 16-point swing is huge. I think you have to keep this in your mind all the time until it goes off but also pay attention to your opponent's deck. 5/5

Museum: Big points, but usually it's easy to just pick up variety either really late or opportunistically. You'll definitely need to pay attention to this, but I think most of the time both players will just have to go for it and things end up turning out the same so not super interesting. 4/5

Obelisk: Super random as to whether or not it will be any impact. Hard to give an overall assessment because it's so heavily dependent on both the board and what it grants bonus points to. 3/5

Orchard: It seems like sometimes it will actually be quite hard to get a lot of points out of this and scores will be similar. Really it will mainly just exist to provide a number of extra points to an engine player and so dis-incentivise alternative strategies slightly. When both players go for an engine it will probably make no difference at all? 2/5

Palace: Barring boards that are insanely good for this like Jack + Treasure Trove, this seems like while it offers some bonus points to big money players, engines that need treasures as payload will still be able to easily get 6 or 9 points from this, so overall the difference is not huge. Then again sometimes an extra province of points is all the big money player needs to beat the weak engine so pay attention. 3/5

Tomb: Trashing is really good so you were going to do it anyway, so this makes almost no difference honestly. 2/5

Tower: How often do piles empty where all players aren't going for them anyway? Games where one player gets substantially more of a certain card on a card are super-rare and those boards are either already going to win as they got loads of minions, or more rarely they were piling all of the cities themselves and now they might not get completely crushed. But usually at least one of the piles that runs are going to be a victory card so this will not make all that much difference. It's the speedy three-pile boards where you have to watch out because players don't need to pick up as many extra points while pulling off the three-pile and so three-piling is so much easier and harder to try and stop by grabbing green. I think overall this landmark is often weak but occasionally throws a spanner into the works of the end-game on boards that were already really tricky to play anyway. 3/5

Triumphal Arch: It seems to be so difficult to get a lot of points out of this, and feels a bit like Tower really. Usually the point differences it gives are very small, but like Tower sometimes that really matters. 3/5

Wall: Absolutely crushing. This seems to be game-warping because it's so easy to lose a lot of points by playing only slightly carelessly. Hurts the small point-value VP quite a lot so you really really need to care about point-chip sources and provinces. 5/5

Wolf Den: You've really got to pay attention to this because it's so easy to get caught out and lose a ton of points. Your first Duchy being worth 0 and the second effectively worth 6 makes a big difference too. There are actually quite a lot of cards that you only want one copy of so either you double-down on them or you have to be very careful about trashing them at the end game, it's so easy to end up having the game end before you trash them and get punished for them. you will have this playing on your mind throughout the entire game. 5/5



Summary

5/5: Very powerful cards that usually dictate a part of your strategy
  • City Quarter
  • Gladiator / Fortune
  • Temple
  • Legionary
  • Wild Hunt
  • Donate (Event)
  • Bandit Fort (Landmark)
  • Keep (Landmark)
  • Mountain Pass (Landmark)
  • Wall (Landmark)
  • Wolf Den (Landmark)

4/5: Strong cards that you often base a part of your strategy around
  • Overlord
  • Royal Blacksmith
  • Encampment / Plunder
  • Castles
  • Sacrifice
  • Villa
  • Archive
  • Crown
  • Delve (Event)
  • Dominate (Event)
  • Battlefield (Landmark)
  • Defiled Shrine (Landmark)
  • Museum (Landmark)

3/5: Generally good cards or those that are only strong in rare circumstances
  • Engineer
  • Enchantress
  • Farmer's Market
  • Charm
  • Forum
  • Groundskeeper
  • Advance (Event)
  • Ritual (Event)
  • Salt the Earth (Event)
  • Windfall (Event)
  • Conquest (Event)
  • Aqueduct (Landmark)
  • Arena (Landmark)
  • Colonnade (Landmark)
  • Fountain (Landmark)
  • Obelisk (Landmark)
  • Palace (Landmark)
  • Tower (Landmark)
  • Triumphal Arch (Landmark)

2/5: Often ignorable or quite weak cards or things that make no real difference to your strategy
  • Patrician / Emporium
  • Settlers / Bustling Village
  • Chariot Race
  • Capital
  • Triumph (Event)
  • Annex (Event)
  • Tax (Event)
  • Banquet (Event)
  • Wedding (Event)
  • Basilica (Landmark)
  • Baths (Landmark)
  • Labyrinth (Landmark)
  • Orchard (Landmark)
  • Tomb (Landmark)

1/5: Chancellor says hi
  • Catapult / Rocks
Logged

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 281
  • Respect: +545
    • View Profile
Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2016, 10:57:21 am »
+2

I think you might be being a bit hard on Catapult. It's still a $3 trasher and usually only $1 different on-play from one of the more un-ignorable attacks in the game, Militia (admittedly, it's not going to hit $5 like first Militia sometimes does.) I'd much rather have Catapult in a kingdom than Trade Route, and I've bought plenty of Trade routes. Sometimes even two if I'm aggressively trying to get thin.

Also, Settlers is pretty weak, but it does get significantly better with sifting. It loves cards like Warehouse and Inn. Bustling Village is great. It's just too bad there's five Settlers on top of it. Having to buy only one action for two additional terminals is a significant accelerator, it's just that you have to empty the Settlers first, which makes it less great. If there's discard-for-benefit in the Kingdom, like Vault or even something weak like Secret Chamber, you can put that together with Bustling village and Settlers to make a weird discard/retrieve engine, even without sifters, and the extra terminal plays you get from Bustling Village make it work.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.164 seconds with 21 queries.