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ThetaSigma12

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Probably inaccurate power predictions
« on: June 08, 2016, 03:53:50 pm »
+2

This is the thread where you can make completely hypothetical strength predictions. I'll start it off with mine:
The Amazing (8-10): You'll probably get these about every game they come up.
Overlord: 9/10
This is a amazing card, and the fact that you can pick it up in your first turn means you'll be able to play power 5s by turn 3, even on a 3/4 opening.
Bustling Village: 8/10
+3 Actions is great, and if there's a settlers in your discard then this is better than Lost City.
Castles: 9/10
A strategy on their own, these are, IMO, by far the hardest cards in empires to play right.
Catapult: 8/10
I love this card. Activating both attacks at once is so killer.
Enchantress: 8/10
This card gives good draw, and it will wreck most starting engines.
Gladiator: 8/10
Terminal golds are amazing, and terminal silvers are always good, and anything getting you closer to that sweet fortune is good.
Fortune: 9/10
It's a high cost, but one play should repay all of your money.
Villa: 8/10
Yeah yeah, people will overbuy this, but with all the crazy combo wombos, It's probably gonna be a great card.
The Good (5-7): Good cards, not much to say.
Chariot Race: 7/10
This seems like an amazing card. If it hits you get a card that's worth about $5! I'd pick it up on most boards.
Engineer: 7/10
Quality card, but workshop variants aren't that high in demand.
City Quarter: 6/10
A good village for when you need one, but I don't like how this draws more cards the more cards you have drawn, that's a little counter-intuitive IMO.
Royal Blacksmith: 6/10
It's a great card, when there is trashing. +5 cards is insane but you won't want this on boards with no trashing.
Encampment: 6/10
One-shot engine piece seems good.
Plunder: 7/10
Monument with +1 Action. Monument's a good card so I expect this will be too. The only downfall is the chance that it will never come up. By the time this comes up it might not be able to give you enough points to make a difference.
Emporium: 7/10
A peddler is good, but +2 VP is great, and the fact that it's on gain makes this a decent target for TfB.
Settlers: 5/10
Same problem as counting house, if you get this in the first hand it will be a simple cantrip. My guess is it will be better to trash the copper away. I like the combo with Royal Blacksmith though
Rocks: 5/10
Great for picking up silver if you need some, but this is only good if you bought catapults. Masterpiece seems better.
Farmer's Market: 5/10
Seems weak. It needs village support to make sure other players don't snatch the VP from you.
Sacrifice: 5/10
As an only trasher it seems good. However estates/coppers are not much of a benefit to trash, curses/hovel do nothing, and ruins/squire are not usually included.
Temple: 6/10
Good trasher, good vp source, not much to say.
The Bad (1-4): Niche cards that you won't use very much.
Patrician: Seems worse than vagrant. Vagrant isn't that good so I expect the main reason people pick this up is for emporium.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 07:23:41 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Limetime

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 05:12:33 pm »
+2

I like how nobody rates anything two or ten ever.
Legionary 10/10
Probably the harshest discard attack in the game when you activate it.
Kicking off with olny knowing two cards you have is really hard.
Overlord 8/10
Good early game when you can afford debt
Castles 7/10
That is potentially a ton of vp
Fortune 7/10
Pretty good payload, probably not worth it in bm.
Wild hunt 7/10
If you're opponent doesn't go for it you can keep on stacking up the vp chips until near the end of the game.
Enchantress 7/10
This is countered by cheap cantrips and doesn't work with marauder and cultist. It is still quite a strong attack that totally crushes terminal bm.
Catapult 6/10
The attack is as strong as followers if you trash a silver
Olny good in engines.
Encampment 6/10
Lost city is a solid 5 cost and this is kinda like a one shot lost city. Solid for costing two.
Engineer 6/10
A decent gainer. It's trashing ability is a nice way to win a important split. You can use this if you olny want two or three of a cheap engine component aswell because you can trash it after the first or second play. In terms of workshop variants this is second to Ironworks.
Villa 6/10
People will probably overbuy villa just like they overbuy Squire. Nonetheless it is pretty good at continuing your turn especially when use cost reduction to buy more things to play on your turn.
City quarter 6/10
It's sheer drawing power is mitigated by the fact that you have to buy it for 8 debt.
Bustling village 6/10
3 actions is a lot but by the time this is on top it is probably time to start greening.
Forum6/10
A good support card. Good with doctor,highway,and Chariot race
Temple 6/10
Interesting early game trasher.
sacrifice6/10
Decent early trasher.
Chariot race 5/10
A great card after you don't want silver.
People buy caravan gaurds after all.
Royal blacksmith 5/10
5 cards is a whole lot. Because you discard coppers it seems much stronger in a engine than in bm.
Crown 5/10
Expensive throne room that you aren't sad drawing it dead.
Plunder 5/10
Not a bad card except it costs 5 and it is very hard to buy early.
Emporium 5/10
Seems kind of like distant lands except it's worth 2 vp olny.  5 Peddlers aren't great especially late game.
Patrician 5/10
A much better vagrant. If scout drew me 5+ cards it would be solid non terminal draw.
Settlers 5/10
Seems like a worse peddler.
Charm 4/10
Situationally good. Great with prince.
Gladiator 4/10
Terminal silver now terminal gold later
Silver isn't great
Farmers market 4/10
Weird card. One thing with gathering cards is you want control over who gets the tokens.
Archive 4/10
Good for reliability in a good stuff deck
Capital 3/10
Maybe I am underestimating this but it seems olny situational good for high costs. Good with crown, counterfeight, fortune,herbalist
Rocks 2/10
Why would you ever buy this peice of trash that gains more trash.

No idea how good this card is
Groundskeeper







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SirSlugma

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 05:28:50 pm »
0

I think City Quarter is really solid. Like Scrying Pool, it doesn't take a whole lot to make it viable. The cost is a lot more, of course, but the payoff is really good. Having your actions and card draw all in one is so so huge. I expect this to be a pretty important card a decent amount of the time.

Legionary is super scary; that discard to 2 then draw is really brutal if you can make it hit every turn. Not sure how strong this is exactly, but there will be plenty of boards where you can use it to punish a non engine player.

Groundskeeper seems really fun, it might rival Chariot Race for my favorite card of the set. I feel like it's the Highway to Goons's Bridge, in a way. Maybe less powerful overall, but still super potent,  especially if you can win the split in a significant way.
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dbclick

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 06:27:02 pm »
+7

...
Rocks 2/10
Why would you ever buy this piece of trash ammo that gains more trash ammo.
...

FTFY
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faust

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 05:55:59 am »
0

Archive: 3/10. The main problem is that you get to play it only every third turn. And those cards you're setting aside, they are gone for a while too. Also, at $5, it seems fairly weak. Gear does that effect better and cheaper.
Bustling Village: 7/10. It's good, but will you get it? Will you spend your precious buys on Settlers? Once you do get it, it's already fairly late, and in that sense Bustling Village suffers from the same problem as Champion, but is not as amazeballs.
Capital: 7/10. Good for spiking Pathfinding/Inheritance/etc., and for its various remove-from-play combos, but not otherwise.
Castles: 8/10. Very hard to assess, but you should probably factor them into your strategy on most boards, if only to deny your opponent that key castle.
Catapult: 7/10. Trashing and attacking is good, says Mercenary. Making that Cursing work is probably only possible in games where there are also ways to deal with Curses, so as a Curser, it's pretty bad. And unlike Militia, it doesn't help your economy. Trashing Estate vs trashing Copper early on will be a difficult decision, and require deck-tracking your opponent pretty well.
Chariot Race: 8/10. No major impact, but it's going to be good on most boards.
Charm: 7/10. One of the better kingdom trashers, but its use is very board-dependent, kinda like Procession.
City Quarter: 9/10. Madman megaturns are good? Well, have one every turn!
Crown: 7/10. Always solid, but $5 is just a bit too much.
Emporium: 5/10. Probably a must-buy for engines... if it's possible to buy. Which it won't be usually until late.
Encampment: 9/10. Very decent 1-shot. Remember how you open Shanty Town just for accelerated draw on T3/T4? This is that, but on any turn.
Enchantress: 6/10. I love the attack, but it's going to be very situational.
Engineer: 7/10. Gainers are good.
Farmers' Market: 6/10. Hard to assess.
Fortune: 6/10. Good payload, but you have to get there first. If you can already produce $8, this might be too slow.
Forum: 7/10. Good, but unexciting.
Gladiator: 3/10. It's a terminal Silver early on (worse than Chancellor), and later it might get better. Performance in the early game improves a lot when using Shelters.
Groundskeeper: 10/10. So so good for engines. 3 of these and the engine player can compete the opponent buying Provinces by buying Duchies.
Legionary: 10/10. Brutal attack, and the worst thing is, once you're attacked once, it gets much harder to counterattack.
Royal Blacksmith: 8/10. Great draw if you can trash Coppers. Otherwise not so much, but look out for that Counting House combo.
Overlord: 6/10. Will be overrated a lot. The debt will hurt more than people think. Opening this on 3/4 means forfeiting all your buys the next shuffle.
Patrician: 7/10. Among the better $2s. Never hurts, and it will feel so good when it hits.
Plunder: 9/10. Nonterminal VP is good. Good enough that you might want to strategically return Encampments.
Rocks: 2/10. Provides Cursing for Catapult, but you know, if you can reliably draw Catapult/Rocks, then your opponent can probably trash a Curse.
Sacrifice: 5/10. Mediocre trashing, great counter to Looters.
Settlers: 8/10. Solid.
Temple: 7/10. Good opener for trashing, but hard to use later on.
Villa: 6/10. It's better as a universal puzzle solver than it is in a standard game.
Wild Hunt: 6/10. Smithy+ is always decent, but it this case, the + is pretty weak.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 07:17:18 am »
0

Charm: 7/10. One of the better kingdom trashers, but its use is very board-dependent, kinda like Procession.
Overlord: 6/10. Will be overrated a lot. The debt will hurt more than people think. Opening this on 3/4 means forfeiting all your buys the next shuffle.

I disagree with a few of your ratings, but I want to point out the two that you are just wrong about:

Charm is a gainer, I suppose you meant that? Or did you confuse Charm with another card.
Overlord is cheaper than that: If you open it on 3/4, you will pay off 4 debt on T2 and the rest on T3, so you will definitely be able to buy another card on turn 4. (Except if you opened Trade Route/Overlord and play Overlord as Trade Route or something like that)
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 08:30:25 am »
0

Overlord: 6/10. Will be overrated a lot. The debt will hurt more than people think. Opening this on 3/4 means forfeiting all your buys the next shuffle.
Well, the great thing about overlord is if you open with it you'll be able to play it to rid you of some debt too.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 08:37:40 am »
+2

I think Patrician/Emporium are both solid cards. 2 points on a Peddler variant are not to be sneered at. Patrician looks very good, much better than Vagrant.

I still don't see the crazy power in Castles, at least for 2p games. They can be a lot of points, true, but:
- the most expensive one costs a lot, and you absolutely want it, meaning that if you want to reliabily get it you'll have to build a good engine (able to field 19 coins or to field 10 and trash Small Castle on that turn), which is hard since you have to green early to secure a good Castle split, because...
- the low price of the first Castles makes them easy to pick up just to deny them to the opponent.
- the total value of the pile decreases significantly if you split them more evenly.
- emptying the pile doesn't end the game, giving a small edge to Provinces. (Royal castle might never be bought)

So, maybe I'm misunderstanding what people are saying, but I don't really see a "Castle strategy" happening to the same level as we see Duke, Gardens, Silk Road, and Vineyards strategies. Probably Castles will often be a game decider, and rarely left unbought, but I doubt they'll be the kind of alt-vp that "replaces provinces", because the opportunity cost of stopping them long before they get to God-power is so low.
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crj

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2016, 08:42:23 am »
0

Overlord is cheaper than that: If you open it on 3/4, you will pay off 4 debt on T2 and the rest on T3, so you will definitely be able to buy another card on turn 4.
Am I missing some reason why one wouldn't buy it on T1, pay off almost all the remaining debt on T2 and start T3 with only 1 more debt to pay off plus a 45% chance of drawing Overlord? With a 4/3 split, it might even be the quickest route to playing an important $5 card.

OK, it might not be the best move, but it's at least intriguing enough to try!

And, gosh! I've only just noticed: cost reducers work with Overlord in a way they don't with Band of Misfits. Though frankly Overlord can already be played as 90% of the things you'd choose, anyway.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2016, 08:45:22 am »
+1

Overlord is cheaper than that: If you open it on 3/4, you will pay off 4 debt on T2 and the rest on T3, so you will definitely be able to buy another card on turn 4.
Am I missing some reason why one wouldn't buy it on T1, pay off almost all the remaining debt on T2 and start T3 with only 1 more debt to pay off plus a 45% chance of drawing Overlord? With a 4/3 split, it might even be the quickest route to playing an important $5 card.

OK, it might not be the best move, but it's at least intriguing enough to try!

And, gosh! I've only just noticed: cost reducers work with Overlord in a way they don't with Band of Misfits. Though frankly Overlord can already be played as 90% of the things you'd choose, anyway.

I'm not sure what the meta will be on a 4/3 opening, but buying Overloard on turn1 with a 3/4 opening looks pretty much strictly worse than buying something and getting Overloard T2. Why would you want to trade a T1 buy for a T3 buy?
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JW

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2016, 08:59:15 am »
+1

Charm: 7/10. One of the better kingdom trashers, but its use is very board-dependent, kinda like Procession.

I disagree with a few of your ratings, but I want to point out the two that you are just wrong about:

Charm is a gainer, I suppose you meant that?

It's a typo: the post meant to say "kingdom treasure".
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Settlers
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2016, 09:15:17 am »
+2

I think some players might be missing the boat on Settlers. Everyone seems to think it's a Peddler variant, but there's another way to think about it. In many kingdoms, the most important thing it's going to do for you is not give you +$1, but +2 cards! It puts the copper in your hand, making it a handsize increaser.

Put that together with any sifter (Warehouse, Inn, even Cellar) or any draw card that also makes you discard (Embassy, Stables) and Settlers mitigates their drawback dramatically, as well as giving you a reliable way to ensure copper in the discard. In a deck-drawing engine with these cards, that makes Settlers a $2 Lab. We've all played Stables engines that draw the deck despite no trashing at all in the kingdom. Settlers increases your handsize by 1, just like Stables does. For $2.
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crj

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 12:01:33 pm »
0

Why would you want to trade a T1 buy for a T3 buy?
Because of the aforementioned 45% chance you'd have Overlord to help with your T3 buy?
Because it gives you a 45% chance of getting in an early attack against your opponents?

It could be a really powerful move in a kingdom with Ghost Ship, Minion, Jester, Margrave, etc.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 12:17:13 pm »
0

The 45% chance of getting it on Turn 3 is not reduced significantly if you buy it on T1 or T2 (or at all if you buy a cantrip).

I mean, it is a bit like getting a 5/2 with no good 2's, but you can do it on any opening, and you get a really flexible "5 cost" but have 1 debt left over.

If there is something good to get on turn 1 that is probably better since you get that in a shuffle earlier too. Even if it is just a Silver, it can help you pay that debt off if nothing else, so it seems good assuming you want it at all.

Getting a 5/2 and being able to open 5/Overlord will probably be really good if there are good 5s around.

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 03:34:01 pm »
0

...
Rocks 2/10
Why would you ever buy this piece of trash ammo that gains more trash ammo.
...

FTFY

I think Rocks is actually a really bad card, and I'm guessing that people who buy it with the intention of using it and the silvers it gains as ammo will be disappointed.  It's a lot like Treasure Map: 1. you have to have a way to connect them, and 2. you have to have a good reason to want to connect them.  If you can't connect Catapult and Rocks, then you're just junking up your deck with a $4 Masterpiece, which is rarely good.  When you do connect them, your payoff is a combined discard+cursing attack, which sounds nice, but I don't think it's usually going to be worth whatever effort you had to put in to make them connect in the first place.

Actually, Death Cart is a much better comparison.  Death Cart is awful because it junks up your deck with Ruins that either severely slow you down (if you can't connect them with Death Cart), or else slow you down a little in exchange for $5 (but even the "slowing you down" in this case still isn't usually worth $5).  Catapult is not as bad because it does other stuff without Rocks, and it gives you the option to buy Rocks (you're not forced to take the ammo like with Death Cart).  I think most of the time you will opt not to take the Rocks, because Catapult is already doing stuff without them, and I just don't see it almost ever being worth $4 to junk your deck in the hopes that you can do a strong attack once; unless, of course, you wanted that Silver/Copper anyway, which I think will be the main use for Rocks (though it's also not very good).
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crj

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2016, 06:52:02 pm »
0

The 45% chance of getting it on Turn 3 is not reduced significantly if you buy it on T1 or T2 (or at all if you buy a cantrip).
My point wasn't that the chance was higher of drawing your Overlord on T3 than if you'd diluted it with a T1 purchase. I agree that's a minor consideration.

Rather, I was suggesting that the combination of drawing Overlord on T3 and having only $1 of debt left could be more powerful than buying something on T1 then drawing Overlord on T3 when you've still got $3-$6 of outstanding debt.

You prefer one good turn to two mediocre turns, as Tactician proves.
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dmet

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2016, 08:00:23 pm »
+2

City Quarter and Wild Hunt both seem situationally completely dominant and I think people are really underestimating them. City Quarter seems kind of like Scrying Pool in that it takes a bit of help to make it work--You need some trashing-- but with that help it's going to be really easy to draw your deck. The big drawback is the cost. I don't know how much 8 debt is going to effectively be, but it seems like a fair amount.

Wild Hunt is the big one that I think people are underestimating. My bold prediction is that a Village/Wild Hunt stack will be better than any Village/5-cost Smithy variant except for Torturer, and maybe Wharf. Consider it against Wild Hunt/ Big Money on a board with no buys or gainers: if you're the only person building that sort of deck, you can feasibly play 5 Wild Hunts and buy a Province every turn (actually you can play more of them than that uncontested, but this is plenty). Add a chip to the pile with the first four and gain the estate with the last one. That estate is basically an alt-vp card worth 5 points, and you just got it for free. That's really strong. If you can trash the estate later, it's even better.

This card seems really fun to play and really powerful. I'll give it an 8/10 because Wild Hunt/Big Money seems really bad and because the only immediate benefit to your deck is the +3 cards, but I think it will be one of those strategies that you always look for on a board with it. The Wild Hunt split will be also often be pretty important.
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MattTV

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 12:11:56 am »
0

Archive: 9/10-It basicly turns the next three cards in your deck into reserve cards for three turns that you can pull out one at a time, but I think this card has a lot potential to build some strong turns especially with legionary or encampment as far as matching gold.
Bustling Village: 8/10- This has the potential to be a mega-encampment with an extra action and copper without the drawback but even if there's no settlers in the discard, I'd still prefer this over a bazaar just to play that extra action. Although it will take some time to dig it out.
Capital: 8/10- A really strong treasure. It helps you get those expensive cards early on. It reminds me of tactician but in reverse so you can have a mega money turn now and most likely forgo your next turn depending on how you use it.
Catapult: 6/10- I think it's pretty decent possibly situational but I could see this working well with silver decks cause youíre really getting a follower attack for each silver you trash.
Castles: 8/10- Just getting the humble castle for 3$ itself could be worth up to 9 victory points and with all the castles is more all the provinces alone I think. Although I think this will be a bit weaker with colonies out, it's still a good alt to victory.
Charm: 8/10- A really cool treasure that suits to any situation. If you don't have enough money or buys pick the 2$ plus buy or get another 5 $ card since you bought emporium which is like using a platinum right there so good all around.
Chariots: 5/10- It has a fun interaction. Itís still very situational, I think I'd still prefer an oasis just to skip the luck though. That's not to say you can't make your own luck and it's definitely a grade up from wishing well.
City Quarter: 7/10- I feel like I'd have to get a lot of terminals or trashes to be comfortable enough to buy this so kind of unsure cause right now I see it as an 8$ village most of the time and I think it's going to take while to really stack all those terminals in your hand.
Crown: 8/10- it's good all around obviously cause it works with any hand except for an extreme case of all victories, but yeah not much to say.
Emporium: 6/10- I'm sure you could get 5 actions easily for that 2vp as long as there's enough non-terminal actions to so it's a decent reward but I don't know if it's quite worth digging out the patrician to get it.
Encampment: 6/10- It's obviously a powerful 2$ card but most likely a one-shot. I could see people buying this early and not even using it just to wait until they have more gold or so. At least that's what Iím going try.
Enchantress: 8/10- Even though personally I hate this card, it is pretty strong for the most part. Youíre already setting up a better next turn of plus 2 cards and you could potentially make those lonewolf debt invested actions such as overlord into cantrips which is insidious but good x).
Engineer: 7/10- I think it's one of the best workshop variants next to armory. I think it's really cool that you can get rid of it when you don't need it anymore. I would probably even buy this with an extra buy for 1 or 2$ down. Then possibly gain cards as youíre paying off the debt
Farmer's Market: 7/10- I can see it having some potential with villages and engines but the money you get out of it and the points at the end of the cycle are worth the investment.
Fortune: 10/10- I think for the most powerful treasure in the game this is going to be more accessible than people think b/c of gladiatorís ability to trash itself in the supply early on assuming it wins the challenge even once. I mean a 16 dollar treasure is not something you can just ignore I think on any board. So I think it will be OP
Forum: 7/10- I appreciate an improved variant of warehouse. The plus buy could be useful maybe if I got 7 I could go for a combo with settlers. Discard copper and then pick it back up. Nice engine card in general.
Gladiator: 7/10- Itís a pretty decent card in the sense you can get a terminal 3 if you mix your deck with different cards and if you do you can also get to the fortune faster so thatís a nice ability in general.
Groundkeeper: 8/10- This seems like a nice mid to late game card for when your engine is ready. It will be even more powerful with plus buy cards to dish out the extra points per groundkeeper.
Legionary: 9/10- A really amazing attack but with the catch of matching the gold. The terminal gold though is still pretty handy considering it has minor backlash as with Mandarin, horse traders, and etc.
Royal Blacksmith: 5/10- Donít give me wrong plus 5 cards is always nice to cycle through  your deck quicker but is it really going to be worth discarding 3 to 5$ worth of on average to get those cards. I mean you can trash most of the coppers then this will be amazing. But it really comes down to your ability to get rid of copper. Until then Iíll stick with an embassy instead.
Overlord: 9/10- Very convenient considering that you can get it turn one no matter what and use most  of whatever action you want on the board so it will help fill that niche your missing on your turn most of the time unless you have really bad cards out but overall really strong card.
Patrician: 4/10- it has a nice reward if youíre lucky but stacking a good ratio of 5$ or more can be challenging without good trashers but it could act like a vagrant as you get more provinces.
Plunder: 7/10- Itís basicly a monument thatís not limited to actions anymore. It also has another role in preserving your encampments if you donít have much gold around already so pretty useful.
Rocks: 3/10- To be blunt, the worse card in this set and itís just not worth digging. I appreciate the humorous interaction though.
Sacrifice: 6/10- Itís an okay trasher. Itís convenient that it gives you different rewards for trashing certain cards but the rewards seem just average in general and I probably wouldnít think about trashing action until it got closer to the end game with the exception of ruins but other than that just average.
Settlers: 7/10- I think settlers is pretty solid for 2$. I mean I canít imagine a game where you just never have copper in your discard unless youíve trashed most of them and it combos really nicely with Bustling village. So two/third or 75 percent of the time itís going to be a peddler.
Temple: 6/10- It seems like a good opening trasher for trashing estate and copper. I think its secondary effect though is going to encourage players to plog up their deck with useless temples and essentially slow them down in the long run so Iíd personally prefer bishop but thatís just my take for now.
Villa: 9/10- Has quite a bit of potential to build the perfect turn to cash out your deck. Although you still gotta pay up for that mega turn however long you may want it to last. Great for Smithy like cards.
Wild Hunt: 7/10- Speaking of smithys, For now I canít see Wild Hunt as anything else but a smithy that your opponents can potentially take advantage of if you let them. It does have a useful effect but I canít see myself wanting to stop the plus 3 cards just to get an estate and a few points (maybe if was 4). But also I think itís a card thatís dependent on villages to work with that point advantage.
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junkers

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 07:16:38 am »
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I still don't see the crazy power in Castles, at least for 2p games. They can be a lot of points, true, but:
- the most expensive one costs a lot, and you absolutely want it, meaning that if you want to reliabily get it you'll have to build a good engine (able to field 19 coins or to field 10 and trash Small Castle on that turn), which is hard since you have to green early to secure a good Castle split, because...
- the low price of the first Castles makes them easy to pick up just to deny them to the opponent.
- the total value of the pile decreases significantly if you split them more evenly.
- emptying the pile doesn't end the game, giving a small edge to Provinces. (Royal castle might never be bought)

So, maybe I'm misunderstanding what people are saying, but I don't really see a "Castle strategy" happening to the same level as we see Duke, Gardens, Silk Road, and Vineyards strategies. Probably Castles will often be a game decider, and rarely left unbought, but I doubt they'll be the kind of alt-vp that "replaces provinces", because the opportunity cost of stopping them long before they get to God-power is so low.
I think you're on the money here - they seem very telegraphed. I think they're going to be very interesting in low-medium level games, but I don't see them making that seismic shift of Gardens or such; precisely because they're not game enders.

I'm still excited to play them (because my games are always low level), but.
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Chris is me

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 09:41:59 am »
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City Quarter is a 10/10 draw card. You all have no idea. It's basically a Madman that isn't a one shot. Just think about how powerful that is for a minute.

Consider how much you'd pay for 2 cards 2 actions on so many boards. Lost City is $5 with a huge drawback. Would you pay $6, $7 for one? How about however much you happen to have? It gives you debt, but the card is so good you'll draw twice as much of your deck on the next shuffle anyway, because drawing just two cards with it is a pretty rare scenario. City Quarter makes an engine possible with no other draw OR villages on the board.

Like if you have zero trashing it's not stellar, sure, but it's seriously dominant with even weak trashing.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:44:18 am by Chris is me »
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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 10:21:37 am »
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City Quarter is a 10/10 draw card. You all have no idea.

I have an idea. It's not crazy good unless you have trashing.
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Chris is me

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 10:27:29 am »
+1

City Quarter is a 10/10 draw card. You all have no idea.

I have an idea. It's not crazy good unless you have trashing.

Even just being able to gain a bunch of cantrips, or some good sifting, will support it. It's like Scrying Pool, sort of. I dunno. I played a game with a weak single card trasher and my deck exploded with it, and I was like "whoa". Expert analysis, I know.
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JThorne

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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 10:49:00 am »
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Quote
some good sifting, will support it

Wait a minute. Most sifters reduce handsize. How many Cellars, Warehouses and Inns do you want to play in order to draw your City Quarter so that you can draw one card with it?
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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 02:24:19 pm »
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Quote
some good sifting, will support it

Wait a minute. Most sifters reduce handsize. How many Cellars, Warehouses and Inns do you want to play in order to draw your City Quarter so that you can draw one card with it?

It's quite situational, you need to track your deck and know the expected number of actions in your hand on play. But if you have a flood of cantrips you can generally bet a Warehouse will land on two of them.
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Re: Probably inaccurate power predictions
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 02:44:39 pm »
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Overlord: 6/10. Will be overrated a lot. The debt will hurt more than people think. Opening this on 3/4 means forfeiting all your buys the next shuffle.
Well, the great thing about overlord is if you open with it you'll be able to play it to rid you of some debt too.

But... You forgo the extra Silver to get Overlord. I feel like when Overlord is worth opening, it is fantastic, but passable until a little later otherwise?
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