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Witherweaver

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2016, 06:05:10 pm »
0

This seems the counterintuitive way for me.  When I possess someone, I gain all tokens now instead of them.  So why wouldn't removed tokens be my tokens instead of theirs?
Because Possession doesn't do that.

Or is it still the case that when I 'spend' a Coin Token during the Buy phase of a player I possess, I'm spending theirs and not mine?
When you choose to have the player you're possessing spend a coin token, they spend their coin token.

Again it's their turn, you are just calling the shots and taking cards/tokens.

Okay, fair enough. 
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Jeebus

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2016, 09:37:46 am »
+1

My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
No, when you Possess someone you get the cards and tokens instead of them getting them; they don't get them.

The wiki is misleading here. It indicates that both players get the tokens. In the rulebook this is phrased with "would get".

Deadlock39

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2016, 09:43:19 am »
0

My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
No, when you Possess someone you get the cards and tokens instead of them getting them; they don't get them.

The wiki is misleading here. It indicates that both players get the tokens. In the rulebook this is phrased with "would get".

Yeah, the wording is definitely bad here.  It says "the Possessing player also gains all tokens taken during the Possessed turn"

This, of course, is intended to mean "in addition to gaining all cards that would be gained by the possessed player, they also take all tokens that would be taken by the possessed player."

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.

Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2016, 05:19:18 pm »
+2

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.
We will fix it in future printings of the rulebook.
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Jeebus

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2016, 07:17:24 pm »
+1

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.
We will fix it in future printings of the rulebook.

That would be good, to make it even clearer, but we were talking about the phrasing in the wiki. In the rulebook it says "would get", so the correct meaning is implied.

werothegreat

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2016, 09:52:22 pm »
+3

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
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RevanFan

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2016, 01:03:15 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2016, 01:06:14 am »
+2

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2016, 10:09:21 am »
+1

I'm still not sure if I like Donate or not. It's hilariously broken; and unlike King's Court, Donate is not going to be one of those 90-93% cards, since it's usable in every deck type (except maybe Gardens slogs). On one hand, I don't like cards that are so ridiculously strong that you have to go for them in every game they appear in or just lose. On the other hand, it does require a lot of skill to use perfectly, and it interacts with a lot of other cards, and it's not a strategy on its own.

I guess I feel it should have had a cost of $8 instead of 8D to make it less accessible, but if it had, the first person to hit $8 would just win, I guess... Maybe its cost should just have been a bit higher, like 10D or 12D, just so you can't open with it as easily...
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blaisepascal

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2016, 10:35:11 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

So would this work?

I have 8 coin and 2 buys, 3 market squares in my deck.

I buy a Donate. I pay the debt. I buy a donate.
Discard, draw 5

Donate 1:
Put my deck and discard into my hand,
trash something (copper, estate, fortress, rats, overgrown estate),
discard the three market squares, gaining three gold.
Shuffle my hand into my deck (leaving the three market squares and gold in the discard pile, unless I trashed rats/overgrown estate)
Draw 5 cards.

Donate 2: Repeat the above for three more gold.

That way, for the cost of 8 debt, I get 6 gold? If I save my draw-on-trash card (rats, overgrown estate) for the second donate, I get all 6 gold in my deck, and not the discard?
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Limetime

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2016, 11:56:51 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.
The way it should work is you pile the market squares. Then you buy donation trashing all your Estates and coppers. After you do this you have a deck of 50% gold 50% market squares so you will be able to pay off your debt buy copper donate trashing the copper you bought and getting donate. After that you can buy provinces to your hearts content. The second donate isn't necessary but it is fine given you have 7 extra dollars on the turn you pay off dept.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

So would this work?

I have 8 coin and 2 buys, 3 market squares in my deck.

I buy a Donate. I pay the debt. I buy a donate.
Discard, draw 5

Donate 1:
Put my deck and discard into my hand,
trash something (copper, estate, fortress, rats, overgrown estate),
discard the three market squares, gaining three gold.
Shuffle my hand into my deck (leaving the three market squares and gold in the discard pile, unless I trashed rats/overgrown estate)
Draw 5 cards.

Donate 2: Repeat the above for three more gold.

That way, for the cost of 8 debt, I get 6 gold? If I save my draw-on-trash card (rats, overgrown estate) for the second donate, I get all 6 gold in my deck, and not the discard?
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461.weavile

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2016, 03:56:56 pm »
+1

Trashing a draw-on-trash during donate would just shuffle anything you gained after your turn ended but before you trashed it into your deck for next turn.

Buy Donate.
Clean up. (Including drawing 5* cards)
End turn.
Add deck and discard to hand.
Trash a card.
Reveal Market Square.
Discard Market Square.
Gain Gold to discard pile.
Trash Overgrown Estate.
Shuffle discard pile. (consisting of 2 cards)
Draw Gold or Market Square.
[anything else you want to do with Donate]
Shuffle hand into deck.
Draw 5 cards.
If you don't have a Rats, Overgrown Estate, or Cultist, (anything I missed?) then you won't get the Golds or Market Squares until next shuffle -- which admittedly, shouldn't take very long with Donate.

As for doing it twice, I have 2 comments: you would need to have at least a 3-card combo of Donate, Market Square, and something else to get any gained Golds or revealed Market Squares if you want to have them in your deck; I don't know if things outside of turns would follow the rules the same as effects that happen during the turn, but I would assume that buying Donate twice would let you do the effect twice, and since they're happening simultaneously, you get to choose which happens first (which isn't generally meaningful since you have a choice of 2 identical effects.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:03:22 pm by 461.weavile »
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liopoil

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2016, 04:08:48 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.
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math

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2016, 04:24:39 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.

I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think this works.  Donate takes place after the end of your turn, whereas Villa takes place when you buy it.  Villa will trigger first, and you need to finish the second Action phase before Donating.
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liopoil

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2016, 04:32:22 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.

I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think this works.  Donate takes place after the end of your turn, whereas Villa takes place when you buy it.  Villa will trigger first, and you need to finish the second Action phase before Donating.
Oh whoops I forgot about this. So none of this extra stuff works, unless you have cultists or something.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2016, 07:23:04 pm »
+1

Trashing a draw-on-trash during donate would just shuffle anything you gained after your turn ended but before you trashed it into your deck for next turn.

Buy Donate.
Clean up. (Including drawing 5* cards)
End turn.
Add deck and discard to hand.
Trash a card.
Reveal Market Square.
Discard Market Square.
Gain Gold to discard pile.
Trash Overgrown Estate.
Shuffle discard pile. (consisting of 2 cards)
Draw Gold or Market Square.
[anything else you want to do with Donate]
Shuffle hand into deck.
Draw 5 cards.
If you don't have a Rats, Overgrown Estate, or Cultist, (anything I missed?) then you won't get the Golds or Market Squares until next shuffle -- which admittedly, shouldn't take very long with Donate.

As for doing it twice, I have 2 comments: you would need to have at least a 3-card combo of Donate, Market Square, and something else to get any gained Golds or revealed Market Squares if you want to have them in your deck; I don't know if things outside of turns would follow the rules the same as effects that happen during the turn, but I would assume that buying Donate twice would let you do the effect twice, and since they're happening simultaneously, you get to choose which happens first (which isn't generally meaningful since you have a choice of 2 identical effects.)

Your Trash a card/Trash Overgrown Estate/[anything else with Donate] lines should really be a single line at the top: [trash cards].  You don't trash one card a time, you trash them all at once.  Then you may have multiple effects to resolve together, which you can order as you like (Market Square, Overgrown Estate, etc.).  This can actually make a difference (e.g. you trash Rocks and Cultist; you gain a Silver from Rocks and then draw from Cultist, now you have Silver in your hand that you wish you could trash except you can't because that part of Donate is already done).
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2016, 10:52:25 am »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2016, 10:59:46 am »
+5

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2016, 12:31:56 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.
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blaisepascal

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2016, 04:33:08 pm »
+2

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2016, 05:39:17 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.

I'm not saying that it's at all easy to do the Forge thing. But you don't need your opponent to have Governor; you need Governor/Council Room yourself; you play it enough that he draws his deck.
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Calamitas

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2016, 05:52:58 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.

I'm not saying that it's at all easy to do the Forge thing. But you don't need your opponent to have Governor; you need Governor/Council Room yourself; you play it enough that he draws his deck.
Yeah, but you still need much more than just possession to pull it off, in this case the existence of Donate would have been enough!
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