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GendoIkari

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Question about Donate
« on: June 06, 2016, 07:56:31 pm »
0

Is there a way in which the wording is different from:

"Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile. Trash any number of cards from your hand, in play or, your discard pile."

Of course it is different if you buy another card or event after buying Donate, but you could always just buy Donate last anyway. Just curious, because I found it a bit odd for the event to have you do normal cleanup, which would involve drawing 5 cards, and then having you basically draw a new 5 later.

My version also allows you to trash Durations that are in play, but that shouldn't really matter.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 08:03:21 pm by GendoIkari »
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singletee

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 08:03:55 pm »
+3

You can reveal Market Squares, Traders, and Watchtowers if they are in your hand.

GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 08:07:08 pm »
0

You can reveal Market Squares, Traders, and Watchtowers if they are in your hand.

Well of those, I think only Market Square matters really. But that just means that Donate is even more powerful than my wording...
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ycz6

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 08:07:46 pm »
0

Being able to trash cards that are in play leads to having to make some weird rules clarifications, and is slightly different in that you can trash things like Haggler and Scheme which have while-in-play or when-you-discard-from-play effects.

Also, I think your wording lets you trash other people's Duration cards?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 08:10:09 pm »
+8

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.
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werothegreat

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 08:12:33 pm »
+3

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

The real question is, is it worth going in Debt to give your Outpost turn a 5-card hand?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 08:16:24 pm »
+1

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

Ha, should have realized. And yeah, it has implications for things like Outpost and Expedition too I suppose. I suppose IRL, people won't bother doing normal cleanup.

This also nerfs Alchemist, Treasury, Navigator, Herbalist, Inn, etc.

So woah, I just realized that if you ever force your opponent to buy Donate while possessing him.... that's so ridiculously bad. You get 8 debt, and he gets to trash anything he wants from his deck.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 08:20:07 pm by GendoIkari »
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RevanFan

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 08:50:39 pm »
0

So woah, I just realized that if you ever force your opponent to buy Donate while possessing him.... that's so ridiculously bad. You get 8 debt, and he gets to trash anything he wants from his deck.
Not so. Rulebook specifies that Donate happens between turns, so Possession will not affect it at all.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 08:58:55 pm »
+2

So woah, I just realized that if you ever force your opponent to buy Donate while possessing him.... that's so ridiculously bad. You get 8 debt, and he gets to trash anything he wants from his deck.
Not so. Rulebook specifies that Donate happens between turns, so Possession will not affect it at all.
Exactly. Meaning that you (the person who played Possession) gets the Debt tokens, then the other person's turn (which you were controlling) ends, the effects of Possession wear off, and then they get to clean up their deck.
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RevanFan

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 09:02:39 pm »
0

So woah, I just realized that if you ever force your opponent to buy Donate while possessing him.... that's so ridiculously bad. You get 8 debt, and he gets to trash anything he wants from his deck.
Not so. Rulebook specifies that Donate happens between turns, so Possession will not affect it at all.
Exactly. Meaning that you (the person who played Possession) gets the Debt tokens, then the other person's turn (which you were controlling) ends, the effects of Possession wear off, and then they get to clean up their deck.
I took that to mean that you take the debt, and then get to clean out your own deck, because you were just playing with their deck. After Possession wears off, you return to controlling your own deck, but it was still you who bought Donate. I may be wrong, but I believe, if you buy Donate while Possessing someone, you take the debt and clean your own deck. So it's basically no better than just doing it on your turn. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know.

Also, if you Possess someone, would you pay off your own debt with their coins, or would you pay off their debt with their coins?

I hope Donald looks at this thread.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 09:06:39 pm »
+1

So woah, I just realized that if you ever force your opponent to buy Donate while possessing him.... that's so ridiculously bad. You get 8 debt, and he gets to trash anything he wants from his deck.
Not so. Rulebook specifies that Donate happens between turns, so Possession will not affect it at all.
Exactly. Meaning that you (the person who played Possession) gets the Debt tokens, then the other person's turn (which you were controlling) ends, the effects of Possession wear off, and then they get to clean up their deck.
I took that to mean that you take the debt, and then get to clean out your own deck, because you were just playing with their deck. After Possession wears off, you return to controlling your own deck, but it was still you who bought Donate. I may be wrong, but I believe, if you buy Donate while Possessing someone, you take the debt and clean your own deck. So it's basically no better than just doing it on your turn. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know.

Also, if you Possess someone, would you pay off your own debt with their coins, or would you pay off their debt with their coins?

I hope Donald looks at this thread.

If you bought Donate while possessing someone, you bought it on their turn, so they get the effect. You are just no longer making their decisions when the effect happens.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 09:15:40 pm »
+11

If you bought Donate while possessing someone, you bought it on their turn, so they get the effect. You are just no longer making their decisions when the effect happens.
More precisely, you cannot buy Donate while possessing someone; you can only choose to have them buy Donate.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 09:17:11 pm »
+1

If you bought Donate while possessing someone, you bought it on their turn, so they get the effect. You are just no longer making their decisions when the effect happens.
More precisely, you cannot buy Donate while possessing someone; you can only choose to have them buy Donate.

But of course
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trivialknot

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 09:47:16 pm »
+7

When are the end-game conditions checked relative to Donate (or Mountain Pass)?  Which of these strategies work?

1. I empty 3 piles, and buy Donate.  I trash my deck, getting all the points from Tomb.

2. I buy donate, trash all my Hunting Grounds.  I empty Estates, which are the third pile, ending the game.

These could be winning moves if they work, but I'm guessing that neither works.  The end-game conditions are only checked at the end of each turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2016, 10:33:58 pm »
+3

because you were just playing with their deck.

No, this is your mistake. You do NOT play with their deck. They play with their deck, while you make decisions for them. All card instructions still refer to them, the person whose turn it is.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2016, 11:02:33 pm »
+13

When are the end-game conditions checked relative to Donate (or Mountain Pass)?  Which of these strategies work?

1. I empty 3 piles, and buy Donate.  I trash my deck, getting all the points from Tomb.

2. I buy donate, trash all my Hunting Grounds.  I empty Estates, which are the third pile, ending the game.

These could be winning moves if they work, but I'm guessing that neither works.  The end-game conditions are only checked at the end of each turn.
The end-game conditions are checked at the end of a turn; if the game ends then then between-turn stuff doesn't happen; if between-turn stuff would meet the conditions it doesn't matter until the next turn ends.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 01:42:39 pm »
0

So for the second case, it would still force the game to end on the next turn,* your opponent would just get a chance to take the lead back.  You could know that this can't happen, however (e.g., Pillage). 

*unless they do some weird gain from trash and Ambassador back stuff to piles.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2016, 01:54:32 pm »
0

* Or exchange a Peasant or Page.
* Or play an Encampment and avoid revealing a Gold or Plunder.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2016, 04:49:17 pm »
0

Also, if you Possess someone, would you pay off your own debt with their coins, or would you pay off their debt with their coins?

What happens in this case?  I'm guessing you would pay off theirs because they would regularly.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 05:41:09 pm »
+2

Also, if you Possess someone, would you pay off your own debt with their coins, or would you pay off their debt with their coins?

What happens in this case?  I'm guessing you would pay off theirs because they would regularly.
When you Possess someone, it's their turn, with you making decisions and taking cards/tokens. The key thing to remember with any Possession question.

So, you can choose to have them pay off their debt; your debt can't be paid off then.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 05:52:16 pm »
0

Also, if you Possess someone, would you pay off your own debt with their coins, or would you pay off their debt with their coins?

What happens in this case?  I'm guessing you would pay off theirs because they would regularly.
When you Possess someone, it's their turn, with you making decisions and taking cards/tokens. The key thing to remember with any Possession question.

So, you can choose to have them pay off their debt; your debt can't be paid off then.

This seems the counterintuitive way for me.  When I possess someone, I gain all tokens now instead of them.  So why wouldn't removed tokens be my tokens instead of theirs?

Or is it still the case that when I 'spend' a Coin Token during the Buy phase of a player I possess, I'm spending theirs and not mine?

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 06:02:48 pm »
0

Actually, the Possession errata just says that you gain tokens, it doesn't provide any additional wording on paying/removing/losing tokens.  So presumably you still spend the Coin tokens that belong to the player that you are possessing during their turn and not your own?  In which case, it seems consistent with paying off their debt during the possession turn.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 06:03:59 pm »
0

This seems the counterintuitive way for me.  When I possess someone, I gain all tokens now instead of them.  So why wouldn't removed tokens be my tokens instead of theirs?

Or is it still the case that when I 'spend' a Coin Token during the Buy phase of a player I possess, I'm spending theirs and not mine?
My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 06:04:04 pm »
+3

This seems the counterintuitive way for me.  When I possess someone, I gain all tokens now instead of them.  So why wouldn't removed tokens be my tokens instead of theirs?
Because Possession doesn't do that.

Or is it still the case that when I 'spend' a Coin Token during the Buy phase of a player I possess, I'm spending theirs and not mine?
When you choose to have the player you're possessing spend a coin token, they spend their coin token.

Again it's their turn, you are just calling the shots and taking cards/tokens.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2016, 06:04:52 pm »
+1

My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
No, when you Possess someone you get the cards and tokens instead of them getting them; they don't get them.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2016, 06:05:10 pm »
0

This seems the counterintuitive way for me.  When I possess someone, I gain all tokens now instead of them.  So why wouldn't removed tokens be my tokens instead of theirs?
Because Possession doesn't do that.

Or is it still the case that when I 'spend' a Coin Token during the Buy phase of a player I possess, I'm spending theirs and not mine?
When you choose to have the player you're possessing spend a coin token, they spend their coin token.

Again it's their turn, you are just calling the shots and taking cards/tokens.

Okay, fair enough. 
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2016, 09:37:46 am »
+1

My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
No, when you Possess someone you get the cards and tokens instead of them getting them; they don't get them.

The wiki is misleading here. It indicates that both players get the tokens. In the rulebook this is phrased with "would get".

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2016, 09:43:19 am »
0

My understanding was that you (the possessor) also gain the same tokens that they (the possessed) gain.  So, if you possess someone to play a Baker, they get a coin token (which you can spend) and you get a coin token.  If you buy a card that results in them receiving 8 debt tokens, you also get 8 debt tokens.
No, when you Possess someone you get the cards and tokens instead of them getting them; they don't get them.

The wiki is misleading here. It indicates that both players get the tokens. In the rulebook this is phrased with "would get".

Yeah, the wording is definitely bad here.  It says "the Possessing player also gains all tokens taken during the Possessed turn"

This, of course, is intended to mean "in addition to gaining all cards that would be gained by the possessed player, they also take all tokens that would be taken by the possessed player."

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.

Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2016, 05:19:18 pm »
+2

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.
We will fix it in future printings of the rulebook.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2016, 07:17:24 pm »
+1

As it is phrased, the "also" is ambiguous, and could mean that both players take the tokens.
We will fix it in future printings of the rulebook.

That would be good, to make it even clearer, but we were talking about the phrasing in the wiki. In the rulebook it says "would get", so the correct meaning is implied.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2016, 09:52:22 pm »
+3

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2016, 01:03:15 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2016, 01:06:14 am »
+2

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2016, 10:09:21 am »
+1

I'm still not sure if I like Donate or not. It's hilariously broken; and unlike King's Court, Donate is not going to be one of those 90-93% cards, since it's usable in every deck type (except maybe Gardens slogs). On one hand, I don't like cards that are so ridiculously strong that you have to go for them in every game they appear in or just lose. On the other hand, it does require a lot of skill to use perfectly, and it interacts with a lot of other cards, and it's not a strategy on its own.

I guess I feel it should have had a cost of $8 instead of 8D to make it less accessible, but if it had, the first person to hit $8 would just win, I guess... Maybe its cost should just have been a bit higher, like 10D or 12D, just so you can't open with it as easily...
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2016, 10:35:11 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

So would this work?

I have 8 coin and 2 buys, 3 market squares in my deck.

I buy a Donate. I pay the debt. I buy a donate.
Discard, draw 5

Donate 1:
Put my deck and discard into my hand,
trash something (copper, estate, fortress, rats, overgrown estate),
discard the three market squares, gaining three gold.
Shuffle my hand into my deck (leaving the three market squares and gold in the discard pile, unless I trashed rats/overgrown estate)
Draw 5 cards.

Donate 2: Repeat the above for three more gold.

That way, for the cost of 8 debt, I get 6 gold? If I save my draw-on-trash card (rats, overgrown estate) for the second donate, I get all 6 gold in my deck, and not the discard?
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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2016, 11:56:51 am »
0

I just want to try Donate/Market Square.
How would that work? With Donate, you have to put everything into your hand, trash cards, shuffle your deck back together, and then draw a hand. I guess you would discard Market Square for the Gold after trashing and before shuffling, but you'd only get one Gold per Market Square, no matter how many cards you trash.
The way it should work is you pile the market squares. Then you buy donation trashing all your Estates and coppers. After you do this you have a deck of 50% gold 50% market squares so you will be able to pay off your debt buy copper donate trashing the copper you bought and getting donate. After that you can buy provinces to your hearts content. The second donate isn't necessary but it is fine given you have 7 extra dollars on the turn you pay off dept.

But you have all of your Market Squares in your hand when you're trashing, so you get a gold per Market Square you have in your deck.

So would this work?

I have 8 coin and 2 buys, 3 market squares in my deck.

I buy a Donate. I pay the debt. I buy a donate.
Discard, draw 5

Donate 1:
Put my deck and discard into my hand,
trash something (copper, estate, fortress, rats, overgrown estate),
discard the three market squares, gaining three gold.
Shuffle my hand into my deck (leaving the three market squares and gold in the discard pile, unless I trashed rats/overgrown estate)
Draw 5 cards.

Donate 2: Repeat the above for three more gold.

That way, for the cost of 8 debt, I get 6 gold? If I save my draw-on-trash card (rats, overgrown estate) for the second donate, I get all 6 gold in my deck, and not the discard?
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461.weavile

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2016, 03:56:56 pm »
+1

Trashing a draw-on-trash during donate would just shuffle anything you gained after your turn ended but before you trashed it into your deck for next turn.

Buy Donate.
Clean up. (Including drawing 5* cards)
End turn.
Add deck and discard to hand.
Trash a card.
Reveal Market Square.
Discard Market Square.
Gain Gold to discard pile.
Trash Overgrown Estate.
Shuffle discard pile. (consisting of 2 cards)
Draw Gold or Market Square.
[anything else you want to do with Donate]
Shuffle hand into deck.
Draw 5 cards.
If you don't have a Rats, Overgrown Estate, or Cultist, (anything I missed?) then you won't get the Golds or Market Squares until next shuffle -- which admittedly, shouldn't take very long with Donate.

As for doing it twice, I have 2 comments: you would need to have at least a 3-card combo of Donate, Market Square, and something else to get any gained Golds or revealed Market Squares if you want to have them in your deck; I don't know if things outside of turns would follow the rules the same as effects that happen during the turn, but I would assume that buying Donate twice would let you do the effect twice, and since they're happening simultaneously, you get to choose which happens first (which isn't generally meaningful since you have a choice of 2 identical effects.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:03:22 pm by 461.weavile »
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liopoil

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2016, 04:08:48 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.
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math

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2016, 04:24:39 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.

I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think this works.  Donate takes place after the end of your turn, whereas Villa takes place when you buy it.  Villa will trigger first, and you need to finish the second Action phase before Donating.
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liopoil

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2016, 04:32:22 pm »
0

Woah if you have 12 and two buys you can go donate/villa to essentially take another turn.

I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think this works.  Donate takes place after the end of your turn, whereas Villa takes place when you buy it.  Villa will trigger first, and you need to finish the second Action phase before Donating.
Oh whoops I forgot about this. So none of this extra stuff works, unless you have cultists or something.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2016, 07:23:04 pm »
+1

Trashing a draw-on-trash during donate would just shuffle anything you gained after your turn ended but before you trashed it into your deck for next turn.

Buy Donate.
Clean up. (Including drawing 5* cards)
End turn.
Add deck and discard to hand.
Trash a card.
Reveal Market Square.
Discard Market Square.
Gain Gold to discard pile.
Trash Overgrown Estate.
Shuffle discard pile. (consisting of 2 cards)
Draw Gold or Market Square.
[anything else you want to do with Donate]
Shuffle hand into deck.
Draw 5 cards.
If you don't have a Rats, Overgrown Estate, or Cultist, (anything I missed?) then you won't get the Golds or Market Squares until next shuffle -- which admittedly, shouldn't take very long with Donate.

As for doing it twice, I have 2 comments: you would need to have at least a 3-card combo of Donate, Market Square, and something else to get any gained Golds or revealed Market Squares if you want to have them in your deck; I don't know if things outside of turns would follow the rules the same as effects that happen during the turn, but I would assume that buying Donate twice would let you do the effect twice, and since they're happening simultaneously, you get to choose which happens first (which isn't generally meaningful since you have a choice of 2 identical effects.)

Your Trash a card/Trash Overgrown Estate/[anything else with Donate] lines should really be a single line at the top: [trash cards].  You don't trash one card a time, you trash them all at once.  Then you may have multiple effects to resolve together, which you can order as you like (Market Square, Overgrown Estate, etc.).  This can actually make a difference (e.g. you trash Rocks and Cultist; you gain a Silver from Rocks and then draw from Cultist, now you have Silver in your hand that you wish you could trash except you can't because that part of Donate is already done).
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2016, 10:52:25 am »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
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Donald X.

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2016, 10:59:46 am »
+5

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2016, 12:31:56 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.
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blaisepascal

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2016, 04:33:08 pm »
+2

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2016, 05:39:17 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.

I'm not saying that it's at all easy to do the Forge thing. But you don't need your opponent to have Governor; you need Governor/Council Room yourself; you play it enough that he draws his deck.
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Calamitas

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Re: Question about Donate
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2016, 05:52:58 pm »
0

Possession is the reason that Donate's effect happens between turns.

I don't understand why this is important. If the card instead said "at the end of your turn", in a possession turn, wouldn't the trashed cards just go back to the player's deck? And the possessor would gain the debt.
When Donate didn't say "after this turn," it was a pin. The cards are returned via Possession after the player draws. So you have them trash all of their cards, they draw nothing, they get their cards back.

You can currently do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, but it's rare to the point of being almost impossible to pull off.

In order to do the same pin with a crazy Governor Forge thing, you need Possession, and your opponent to have both Governor and Forge. In order to do the pin with end-of-turn Donate, you just need to buy Possession on a board where Donate exists. That's much easier.

I'm not saying that it's at all easy to do the Forge thing. But you don't need your opponent to have Governor; you need Governor/Council Room yourself; you play it enough that he draws his deck.
Yeah, but you still need much more than just possession to pull it off, in this case the existence of Donate would have been enough!
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