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Author Topic: Empires Rulebook  (Read 40762 times)

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RevanFan

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2016, 08:43:51 pm »
+4

I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.

First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.

I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2016, 08:50:28 pm »
+1

Donate is beyond busted. Probably stronger than Chapel and kills Mountebank and Cultist. Holy amazeballs. So many cards. Hard to process everything at once.
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trivialknot

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2016, 09:09:20 pm »
+1

OMG

Obelisk/Scout is the Scout combo we've all been waiting for!

Tax is the comeuppance that the first player has long been asking for!

Donate is an alternative to conceding!
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ephesos

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2016, 10:31:48 pm »
+2

Don't forget the Band of Misfits reprint that you can open with... maybe now we can finally empty the supply solo on turn 2.

Also, Banquet + IGG just seems terrifying; I guess you can open with another 5 to counter, but if you're second player, you can have 2 curses in your deck before your first shuffle.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 10:34:36 pm by ephesos »
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ephesos

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2016, 10:46:33 pm »
+1

I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.

First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.

I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.

I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?

So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.

And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.
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Kirian

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2016, 10:55:03 pm »
0

I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.

First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.

I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.

I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?

So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.

And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.

Donate happens after your turn ends, at which point you have no money.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2016, 10:58:48 pm »
+5

I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.

First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.

I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.

I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?

So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.

And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.

Donate happens after your turn ends, at which point you have no money.

That doesn't matter, when you buy Donate and get the debt you certainly may have generated some money and can use it to pay off the debt, ephesos is right.
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Elanchana

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2016, 11:04:39 pm »
+1

fhhh.

I think DXV has lost it. I was reading through the card descriptions and I had to stop partway through the Landmarks because my brain couldn't handle everything. Adventures was complicated enough, but this is insanity.

I'll get used to it........ sometime............

Couple of random comments. Archive is awesome - it won me my first Empires playtest game, no joke. I've made good use of Encampment as well. Wild Hunt was the Gathering card I got really petty with. Wondering how something as OP as insta-thin Donate made it into the game. Delve, did you just make the Silver test irrelevant? And finally, twelve points go to... are we gonna call it "buying a Salt the Earth" or just "Salting the Earth"?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2016, 11:13:49 pm »
+6

are we gonna call it "buying a Salt the Earth" or just "Salting the Earth"?

I usually just say, "I'm going to salt the earth."

When Adventures came out, I mentioned that playing Transmogrify made me feel like a mad scientist. Buying Salt the Earth makes me feel like an old-timey villain. "The clock is ticking, nyaah!"
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chipperMDW

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2016, 11:19:23 pm »
+1

Is it significant that Ritual uses past tense ("+1VP per $1 it cost") compared to, say, Apprentice, which uses present tense ("+1 Card per $ is costs")? I would assume that Ritual is intended to work the same as most other things, which look at the properties of a card after it's trashed. But the use of past tense might suggest it looks at the properties of the card at the time of trashing.

I ask because Donald has said that Treasure Map, which has been the only thing that does look at a card property at the time of trashing, should have used "did" instead of "do" to indicate that fact. So... just checking to see whether that's supposed to matter here.

(Situation where it would make a difference: while Inheriting something, trash one of your Estates while you have Quarry in play. The Estate stops being yours, so it stops being an action, and its cost stops being reduced.)
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RevanFan

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2016, 11:21:07 pm »
0

I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.

First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.

I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.

I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?

So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.

And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.
Yeah, I forgot that bit when I was posting. So, theoretically, you could have nothing but gold in your deck, and enough of it to buy a Province every turn, in four turns.

Turn 1: Buy Donate, take 8 Debt, pay off 2-5 Debt. Trash 2 Copper and 3 Estates/Shelters.
Turn 2: Pay off 2-5 Debt.
Turn 3: Buy Windfall. Gain 3 Gold.
Turn 4: Buy Donate, take 8 Debt, pay off what you can. Trash all remaining starting cards, leaving just 3 Gold in your deck.

Now, Windfall on turn 5 would be great, but it would be essential in a Colony game.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:23:21 pm by RevanFan »
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J Reggie

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2016, 11:22:54 pm »
0

I think SCSN has a new favorite event in Delve.

Well, I think he'll love Bandit Fort. 

I don't think Donate will be quite as amazing as it looks at first.  Yes, it's crazy, but you'll probably only want to buy it once because of the cost, and it'll be hard knowing when to do that.  I think Chapel is probably still better.  Obviously Donate is great against junkers but so is Chapel and it costs way less.  Just saying it's probably not quite as broken as you'd think.

Donald X.

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2016, 11:23:43 pm »
0

Is it significant that Ritual uses past tense ("+1VP per $1 it cost") compared to, say, Apprentice, which uses present tense ("+1 Card per $ is costs")? I would assume that Ritual is intended to work the same as most other things, which look at the properties of a card after it's trashed. But the use of past tense might suggest it looks at the properties of the card at the time of trashing.
The cards have to be interpreted according to the wordings they actually have, but it wasn't "supposed to matter," it just happens to say what it does.
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RevanFan

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2016, 11:24:30 pm »
0

I think SCSN has a new favorite event in Delve.

Well, I think he'll love Bandit Fort. 

I don't think Donate will be quite as amazing as it looks at first.  Yes, it's crazy, but you'll probably only want to buy it once because of the cost, and it'll be hard knowing when to do that.  I think Chapel is probably still better.  Obviously Donate is great against junkers but so is Chapel and it costs way less.  Just saying it's probably not quite as broken as you'd think.
So far, the Donate+Windfall situation I described is the only really 'excellent' way to play Donate I can think of. In any other situation, I'd probably also prefer Chapel.
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Limetime

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2016, 11:29:39 pm »
+1

What happens to obelisk when there is no action supply pile?
Does it just fail to choose one or does the game break?
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liopoil

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2016, 11:29:43 pm »
+4

Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
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Limetime

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2016, 11:32:58 pm »
0

Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
Yep sounds right to me
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Donald X.

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2016, 11:35:01 pm »
+3

What happens to obelisk when there is no action supply pile?
Does it just fail to choose one or does the game break?
fail
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2016, 11:35:54 pm »
+4

What happens to obelisk when there is no action supply pile?
Does it just fail to choose one or does the game break?

I think the game tries to divide by zero and just returns an error.
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Moneymodel

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2016, 11:36:33 pm »
+2

Hmm. If Advance is on the board, a player who falls behind early in a Cultist-BM mirror has a better chance of catching up. You can exchange a Ruins for a Cultist, and you don't even need any money to do it.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2016, 11:40:07 pm »
+2

Is it significant that Ritual uses past tense ("+1VP per $1 it cost") compared to, say, Apprentice, which uses present tense ("+1 Card per $ is costs")? I would assume that Ritual is intended to work the same as most other things, which look at the properties of a card after it's trashed. But the use of past tense might suggest it looks at the properties of the card at the time of trashing.
The cards have to be interpreted according to the wordings they actually have, but it wasn't "supposed to matter," it just happens to say what it does.
Sorry; I guess I'm being slow, but I can't tell for sure from your response: does that mean Ritual should be interpreted as checking the cost of the card in the past (i.e. at the time of trashing)?
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MattTV

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2016, 11:59:35 pm »
+3

woooh, my mind is nuked. Thanks for another amazing expansion Donald :).
 
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2016, 12:12:40 am »
+1

Seems to me that the right use of Detonate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy detonate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.

That's what I'm thinking. Also, this seems better  than Chapel since you can build a little before Detonating your deck. Chapel eats up those early turns and misses shuffles or estates, etc.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 12:16:18 am by Beyond Awesome »
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2016, 12:14:12 am »
+3

Chapel is clearly one of the worst 2s, since Donate does it better.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Rulebook
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2016, 12:33:18 am »
+1

Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions.  Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.

Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold?  So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct?  I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles.  Or am I misreading something?
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