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Author Topic: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games  (Read 2707 times)

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Max

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Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« on: May 28, 2016, 07:06:56 pm »
+3

By seeded I mean "throwback to the 90s when freecell had 32000 puzzles and you'd go through them, knowing (thanks to a collection of freecell enthusiasts) that each game was winnable (except for one)".

I like playing dominion single player against the MakingFun AI despite their general ineptitude, but sometimes they get a 5/2 split, you get a 3/4 and away you go to an unfortunate defeat as they play off their mountebank twice before you reach yours in the deck - there's a question in the back of your mind "was this game winnable after the 5/2 split", if the answer is yes, which there's a good chance it was you hit the 'rematch' and your opponent gets a 3/4 and you get the 5/2. Away you go to an easy victory.

This is okay, of course, it's a game that relies on luck, but this does have the downside that you can't really determine how things /could/ have gone had you played differently. Enter the seed, the pseudo-random nature of the seed would mean that you would end up with the same shuffles on each play through, and so, you can test exactly how the game could have gone - you know that you're playing against a bot which will get a 5/2 etc.

Since there are a /lot/ of dominion kingdom possibilities, this wouldn't really have much of a negative impact on the players - the games would be distinct until replayed. However, it would give benefits to discussing kingdoms on f.ds, and improving play more measurably against a specific board - this is the general reason why I would like it.

For a possible extension, this could be used to produce kingdoms of the week for solitaire play, and people would then be able to compare how people played this board - however, I understand that this then relies on collating data even from people who are using an offline version.

Edit: A second possible extension would be for tournaments, though I'm not sure I'd want that, but people might.

This might not be a feature for everyone, but I know that I'd appreciate it, at least in some form (perhaps only for when you use the button to take you to play a game from the log) and maybe other people might too.

Summary: Pseudo-random play to allow for the game to be repeated as-is and to compare gameplay with identical shuffle-luck.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:08:03 pm by Max »
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Watno

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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2016, 07:19:24 pm »
+1

The problem with this is that randomness is hugely dependant on the circumstances. For the first two turns hat you propose makes sense, but on the first reshuffle it leads to really weird effects. If you know your opening buys will collide on T3, going Treasure Map/Borrow/Treasure Map is probably good, but what does that really tell you?
After the first reshuffle, the random seed will produce completely different things due to different events needing to be randomized.
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Calamitas

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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 10:09:39 pm »
+1

I would say an option for 'equal starts'/'selectable starts' would be nice, everything further is just ridiculous. Predicting how the random generator works (e.g. "I had some bad luck, therefore my engine pieces will collide in the right way this shuffle, lets buy a bank then") would harm the game itself.

Integrating equal/selectable start hands as an option might prove its worth since (probably) many would appreciate that. But everything further doesn't (or at least i think so) increase the fun for a meaningful ratio of players.
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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 06:24:50 am »
+6

We will certainly "do something" with the seed for the games. It will be printed in the log and is necessary to replay the game from that log.
The most important added value is that it helps us trace and fix bugs.

Whether or not we will allow you to enter a seed yourself in order to beat up the bots... too soon to tell.

and just for clarity:
* while playing against another human, you will not be able to specify or know the seed.
* this is completely unrelated to equal starts/selectable starts. That would be a Dominion Variant, which is an area where Donald has final say. On this particular issue I happen to know his opinion, and it isn't very likely to make it. (also I agree with him on this one).
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Accatitippi

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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 08:47:16 am »
0

We will certainly "do something" with the seed for the games. It will be printed in the log and is necessary to replay the game from that log.
The most important added value is that it helps us trace and fix bugs.

Whether or not we will allow you to enter a seed yourself in order to beat up the bots... too soon to tell.

and just for clarity:
* while playing against another human, you will not be able to specify or know the seed.
* this is completely unrelated to equal starts/selectable starts. That would be a Dominion Variant, which is an area where Donald has final say. On this particular issue I happen to know his opinion, and it isn't very likely to make it. (also I agree with him on this one).

Not even for casual games? I could see people wanting to try out opening-specific strategies against each other or just handicapping one of the players for fun.

"I can beat you without having had breakfast, drunk, with my hands tied behind my back and opening 5/2".
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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 05:46:46 pm »
0

Also would be cool for solo puzzle play.  Actual 1P games aren't available on the current system IIRC.
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Seprix

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Re: Dominion Offline: Seeded/Repeatable Games
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 09:34:47 pm »
+2

We need Chameleon Mode.

You know where I'm going with this.
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