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Author Topic: Shuffling a single card?  (Read 2195 times)

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pst

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Shuffling a single card?
« on: May 16, 2016, 09:59:28 am »
+1

There is a thread where it is discussed whether it’s possible to shuffle decks like these.

When the rules tell you to shuffle a deck with just one card it’s obvious what you should do (nothing, or maybe take it up and put it down again after assuring yourself that it is indeed just one card). So the question is not on what you should do, but how to describe what you did. Did you shuffle? Or did you try to shuffle, but failed?

How can it matter? Because of the lose track rule. See the original thread.

There is no official ruling on this yet, and when people expressed different opinions Donald wrote that he is happy to continue gathering data. I have avoided writing a “me too” comment, and others might have done that as well, so here is a chance for us to vote instead, where maybe more people will show how they interpret this.

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smcrtorchs

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Re: Shuffling a single card?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 06:52:00 pm »
0

I can see two approaches. First is to do what feels more intuitive and the second is to go by the dictionary. In this case however, my intuition agrees with the dictionary, because I just cannot see how I can shuffle a deck of 0 or 1 card. Being able to shuffle a deck with only stashes also feels intuitive. Sure the outcome will always be the same, but so what? The dictionary I used, uses plurar in its definition of shuffle:

"10.  to mix (cards in a pack) so as to change the relative positions."
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 06:59:54 pm by smcrtorchs »
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Chris is me

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Re: Shuffling a single card?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 06:54:32 pm »
0

Technically, a two card deck with just one Stash is a completely known permutation as well.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Shuffling a single card?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 07:04:39 pm »
+1

I can see two approaches. First is to do what feels more intuitive and the second is to go by the dictionary. In this case however, my intuition agrees with the dictionary, because I just cannot see how I can shuffle a deck of 0 or 1 card. Being able to shuffle a deck with only stashes also feels intuitive. Sure the outcome will always be the same, but so what? The dictionary I used, uses plurar in its definition of shuffle:

"10.  to mix (cards in a pack) so as to change the relative positions."

Dictionary definitions aren't great for technical contexts like this.  For example, the definition you give suggests that the positions of the cards must be changed.  But what if your shuffling randomly results in a deck where the positions are the same?  A proper random shuffle does have that chance, which is not even uncommon if the number of cards in the deck is small enough (e.g. if you have a 2 card deck, there's a 50% chance of it being unchanged)?
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faust

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Re: Shuffling a single card?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 07:37:33 pm »
0

I like always being able to shuffle your deck. The only technical issue with shuffling an empty deck is it sort of creates an infinite loop:

Play Smithy with no cards in deck/discard.
  try to draw, fail
  shuffle discard
  try to draw, fail
  ...

It's not pretty. So I guess I can see the appeal of requiring the discard to be non-empty for it to be shufflable.
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schadd

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Re: Shuffling a single card?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2016, 07:49:09 pm »
+5

saying that all stash does not allow for shuffle creates a paradox:
>stash reads "when you shuffle, put this anywhere in your deck"
>discard empty, but need drawing!
>alright gang let's shuffle
>ah but shuffling stashes doesn't count as shuffling
>okay then don't shuffle them jeez just put them there
>okay but then it doesn't trigger stash's ability
>..fine
>goto 20
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