Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Empires Previews #5: Events  (Read 15074 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3317
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2016, 01:12:34 pm »
0

9 VP is a lot, like so much you can basically trash the Province and still be happy.

So you can lose the split 5 - 3 and as long as you bought them at $14 you'd still win 45 - 30
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

SevenSpirits

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • Shuffle iT Username: SevenSpirits
  • Respect: +50
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2016, 01:14:34 pm »
+1

Dominate really seems crazy. Previously, $16 and an extra buy would get you 12 points. In any game that has Dominate, you'll never (edge case blah blah) buy 2 Provinces on a turn.

Case that is not very edgy:  I'm down 6-12 points with 2 Provinces left in the pile.  I have $16 and 2 buys.

I would pedantically argue that is exactly an example of an "edge case", and the relevant point is that the edge cases are relatively common.
Logged
How to explain? How to describe? Even the omniscient viewpoint quails.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7901
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9032
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2016, 01:15:18 pm »
+10

If you have Gladiator and Crown in the kingdom, you can do the Horn of Plenty/Mandarin trick with Dominate.

Crown Gold ->
Play Copper ->
Play Fortune ->
Play Horn of Plenty, Gain Mandarin, topdeck Crown, Gold, Copper, Fortune, Horn of Plenty.
Buy Dominate.
Repeat!
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1114
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1699
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2016, 01:23:24 pm »
+3

Thank you for continuing the triangular sequence in vanilla vp card values.

Dominate seems very cool, but the fact that it's the same vp-pile as Provinces (as opposed to Colony's own pile) means that if you go for Domination you have less leeway in how deep you can to let your opponent dig into the Province pile before starting your epic catch-up.
In a vacuum, 3 Dominions crush 5 provinces; but 2-6 favors the Province player.
The fact that the Dominate player can buy the occasional Province/double Province will give them the edge, but I suspect it won't be as automatic as going for Colonies, also because Platinum.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:51:51 am by Accatitippi »
Logged

Minotaur

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1740
  • Respect: +2886
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2016, 01:29:18 pm »
0

Bishop + Triumph, the Platinum deck.

Platinum x2, Gold, Bishop, Province
Logged
Storyteller/Crown is Donald's Vietnam Watergate.  Alchemy is Donald's Vietnam.  Scout is the time Donald choked on a pretzel.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9126
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2016, 01:29:57 pm »
0

Dominate is interesting with Bishop golden decks.

The traditional golden deck buys and trashes a Province every round.  In the end, you get 5VP per trashed Province (counting the base 1VP from Bishop).  You lose 1VP with each one, but it's still a pretty good return.

Colony isn't as efficient though.  You would get 6VP per trashed Colony, barely better than Province.  You lose 4VP on each one!

But with Dominate, you're back to trashing Provinces and losing only 1VP each.  The other 9VP is already in tokens.  In the end, you're still retaining 14VP (from 15) for each Dominated Province.

It's really tough to have a golden deck that can reach $14 though.  Gold isn't enough, and Platinum isn't guaranteed to come out with Dominate.
Logged

Harley_Beckett

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
  • Respect: +137
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2016, 01:30:53 pm »
0

Windfall seems weak. If you're drawing your deck, you usually don't want Golds. But I could be wrong there.

I think you're wrong there... quite often you'll build up a great engine that can draw your deck and generate multiple buys; but still only end up with $15 or so money to spend. I remember many games where I've bought a Province and a Silver, then later a Province and a Gold, then finally could move on to 2 Provinces. This gives you a whole new way to build up an engine and then quickly add payload.

Also you can just trash all your money to replace it with 3 golds. Except you need 5 money.

Foraging down quickly to just Foragers and Coppers will get you to where it sounds like you want to be.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3216
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3528
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2016, 01:39:45 pm »
+2

As has already been pointed out, there is an important difference between Colony and Dominate: in Colony games, you can ignore Provinces because it's hard for a single player to end the game quickly by buying them all, so you have time to build your engine and still get to use it long enough to make up for the delay. In Dominate games, both players are still competing for the same pile, so you won't have the extra time Colony games have. Seems like the decision to go for Dominate is going to be trickier.

Also Goons + Watchtower + Tomb + Triumph for the win.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

iguanaiguana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 602
  • Respect: +1032
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2016, 01:51:17 pm »
+2

Also, any edge cases to how you could buy multiple Windfalls and get Golds each time?

Trash the incoming golds with watchtower and you can buy as many as you like
Logged
You are my favorite reptile.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1114
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1699
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2016, 02:02:56 pm »
+1

Triumph has -quite thematically- good three-pile potential. (it doesn't provide the buys, but it will provide the points).

I can already see myself surprise-ending the game by buying out the Estates, then buying a Triumph to get enough points to overcome my opponent and then when I'm already exultantly pushing the End turn button, finding out that I shouldn't have bought that last Estate.
Suprise endings, gotta love them.
Logged

amoffett11

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
  • Respect: +239
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2016, 02:10:39 pm »
+4


My guess is the $14 cost is because it's $3 more than Colony, which is $3 more than Province, which is $3 more than Duchy and so on.  So the Event is probably a source of VP, perhaps as simple as $14-> Take X VP chips, where X is some number.  My guess is that the tough decision wasn't what the Event the should cost, but rather what number of VP was a fair number, keeping in mind that a deck that reliably hits $14 every turn could add points indefinitely without bring the game to an end. 

Actually, this can't quite be it.  You could have two opponents just going back and forth buying the event, with the game never coming to a conclusion.  Maybe it's $14 -> Take X VP, trash a Victory Card from the supply, where the Victory card is either something you choose, or something predetermined like Province.  So you're adding some number of VP (is 6 too few?  is 10 too many?), a Province is removed, bringing the game closer to its end, but now you don't have a Province cluttering up your deck.  This is my guess.

So I was pretty close to guessing what the $14 event was.  I wasn't sure how many VP it would be, but I probably should've guessed that it would net 15, as that's the next tier (Estate +2 to Duchy +3 to Province and so on).  I was also wrong about where the Province goes; you do remove a Province from the pile, but it goes into your deck instead of just being trashed (I was influenced by the teaser about cards that trash cards from the supply). 
Logged

aku_chi

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 474
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +931
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2016, 02:16:26 pm »
+2

New piledriving achievement: Buy out the Provinces in one turn by ONLY using Dominate.
Unopposed, Counting House + Travelling Fair + Bank can do it reliably (fastest in 9 turns), I believe.  On the last turn, you need 126 coins.  So, you need Counting House to grab at least 24 Coppers before playing 4 Banks.

However, it's likely that you can empty the Province pile and win one turn earlier.  So, the only reason (other than showing off) to do this is to beat an opponent that has >51 non-Province victory points on turn N-1, but hasn't ended the game by turn N.  This could happen a few ways, but it's pretty unlikely.  Doing this in a real game where the opponent is trying to win sounds like quite the challenge!
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6741
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9119
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2016, 02:22:04 pm »
+4

That's it for previews, not counting today's other preview, which is a doozy.

Is it an Action - Doozy or an Event - Doozy?

No.
Logged

spiralstaircase

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 181
  • Respect: +330
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2016, 02:24:38 pm »
+10

That's it for previews, not counting today's other preview, which is a doozy.

Is it an Action - Doozy or an Event - Doozy?

No.

I should have guessed Victory - Doozy.
Logged

navical

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +212
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2016, 03:03:16 pm »
+10

Salvager - Gold - Gold - Province is a 9VP/turn golden deck with Dominate. And it only needs 4 cards in hand, so the 5th can be a Lab or Wishing Well or something to make your golden deck discard-attack-proof!
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2016, 03:32:05 pm »
0

If you have Gladiator and Crown in the kingdom, you can do the Horn of Plenty/Mandarin trick with Dominate.

And all of those cards being available happens in, like, once per 100 000 games or something (I did the maths in my head so it's not 100% accurate, but that's roughly the order of magnitude we're talking about anyway), so you'd better not miss it when it does.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 03:33:35 pm by Awaclus »
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

mith

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 742
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +717
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2016, 03:49:31 pm »
+2

Way worse than that - about 1 in 23 million to have a 4 Kingdom + 1 Event/Landmark combo.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1428
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2016, 03:53:48 pm »
+10

The excitement about the new events broke the forum record for most users online at the same time!
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2016, 04:00:16 pm »
+2

Way worse than that - about 1 in 23 million to have a 4 Kingdom + 1 Event/Landmark combo.

Very roughly the same order of magnitude.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Nflickner

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
  • Respect: +118
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2016, 04:01:44 pm »
0

The excitement about the new events broke the forum record for most users online at the same time!
Which is what number?  How many users?
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1428
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2016, 04:03:27 pm »
0

The excitement about the new events broke the forum record for most users online at the same time!
Which is what number?  How many users?

Most Online Today: 335. Most Online Ever: 335 (Today at 07:18:44 pm

It's at the bottom of the frontpage. The previous record was from 2012, I believe during Dark Ages previews? I'm too lazy to look up that one.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2581
  • Respect: +2459
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2016, 04:46:02 pm »
+2

I remember in my first 10 games of dominion or so nobody ever came close to drawing their deck. Windfall will seem impossible to achieve to new players.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2016, 04:49:09 pm »
+3

I remember in my first 10 games of dominion or so nobody ever came close to drawing their deck. Windfall will seem impossible to achieve to new players.

It might make them more inclined to try drawing their deck though.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

mith

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 742
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +717
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2016, 05:18:12 pm »
+4

More random math:

Probability of playing with all 55 Events and Landmarks if you don't limit them (assuming 260 Kingdom): 1/4.85901E+51
Probability of playing with a 10 Kingdom Card combo: 1/3.26491E+17

Probability of playing with a 2 Event/Landmark Combo: 1/566 (no limit), 1/1731 (limit of 2)
Probability of playing with a 1 Kingdom Card + 1 Event/Landmark Combo: 1/679 (no limit), 1/980 (limit of 2)
Probability of playing with a 2 Kingdom Card Combo: 1/748
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2901
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2388
    • View Profile
Re: Empires Previews #5: Events
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2016, 05:20:58 pm »
+1

So essentially, combos are rare now is what you're saying.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.09 seconds with 21 queries.