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Author Topic: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks  (Read 64050 times)

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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2016, 03:12:43 pm »
0

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?

I guess it really depends, if Princes is the only source of +buy, it's probably worth a duchy. If Followers is the only way to junk without trashing, it's probably worth getting. The discard attack hurts too.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2016, 03:30:27 pm »
+5

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?

More often than you think.
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King Leon

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2016, 03:32:55 pm »
+2

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

And yet the person who wins more Tournaments in a Wolf Den game ends up down several points. Does this make Tournament skippable?
You can still gain Duchies by Tournament, which is also not bad

I guess there will be a promo landmark in Essen this year.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2016, 03:59:52 pm »
+4

Tomb is a Rats buff.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2016, 04:17:15 pm »
0

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

Unless it's a Keep + Wolf Den game.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2016, 04:20:46 pm »
+4

Tomb is a Rats buff.

Like nothing you've ever seen before, and if you add Fortress, it gets truly ridiculous.  I ended that game with close to 200 VP.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 04:24:18 pm by Elestan »
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2016, 04:47:34 pm »
+5

At last, Landmarks. And five of them because why not. There are twenty-one of them so there are still plenty you haven't seen.

So, the card breakdown most likely as follows, given that there are 21 events Landmarks and 76 pieces of card art:

300 Cards:
  • 24 Kingdom card piles of 10 cards each, 8 are split piles
  • 21 Landmarks
  • 15 Events
  • 0 blank cards

This makes 300 cards even (with 11 cards per kingdom pile).
Here's the breakdown for the art:
  • 24 pieces of art in the kingdom piles.
  • 21 pieces of landmark card art
  • 15 is the number of events needed to get 300 cards (using 25 kingdom piles only leaves you with 4 cards left for events, which is too low).
  • 24 + 21 + 15 = 60 art, leaving 16 for the split piles
  • It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
  • I'm assuming no Alt-VP cards in this set, since there are already so many new ways to score and no piles with weird numbers of cards (e.g. Rats, Port).

If I'm right, that means there are:
  • 16 unrevealed Landmarks
  • 15 unrevealed Events (some of which will come up tomorrow)
  • 5 unrevealed Split piles (with the 2 cards in each)
  • 6 unrevealed regular Kingdom cards (1 card per pile)
  • 48 total unrevealed cards/landmarks/events (we've seen 21 so far)

Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

EDIT: 23 Kingdom piles with 6 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 20 Events, and 6 Blank cards is also valid, but does seem low on the Kingdom piles and a bit high on Events (also the same with 19 Events and 7 split piles).
EDIT 2: Well, with the Events and Castles preview with 13 Events and 8 Castles card artwork, that basically makes it 24 Kingdom piles (one being Castles victory pile), 5 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 13 Events, and 0 blank cards.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:55:43 pm by dbclick »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2016, 04:53:52 pm »
0

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.
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flaquito

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »
+2

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

I'm still having a hard time seeing how the art on Settlers/Bustling Village will fit together. The earth-tones seem to be too different in their coloring. Plus, given the card orientations, the vertical combining of Gladiator/Fortune and Catapult/Rocks works really well. But with sky at the top of both Settlers and Bustling Village, that doesn't work. I'm sure when I actually see the randomizer it'll make complete sense, though.
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dbclick

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2016, 05:03:13 pm »
+1

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

If you look closely at the Rocks/Catapult art, you can see that the Rocks art background is actually a zoomed in part of the background art of Catapult (look for that row of 6 or so horizontal dots near the bushes in both images). I assume the randomizer has these composited in some way, since the Catapult would appear in the Rocks art and vice-versa if they were only one image. Hence, 3 total pieces of art for the split piles.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2016, 05:23:07 pm »
0

- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

If you look closely at the Rocks/Catapult art, you can see that the Rocks art background is actually a zoomed in part of the background art of Catapult (look for that row of 6 or so horizontal dots near the bushes in both images). I assume the randomizer has these composited in some way, since the Catapult would appear in the Rocks art and vice-versa if they were only one image. Hence, 3 total pieces of art for the split piles.

Hmm, I figured that the Rocks image would be aligned below the Catapult one, but zoomed out more.  And the Settlers would be on the left or right of the Bustling Village.  I guess we'll have to wait and see then.
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Moneymodel

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2016, 05:50:06 pm »
+3

In a Keep game, all of a sudden Diadem becomes a much more attractive Tournament Prize.

Unless it's a Keep + Wolf Den game.

Well, that's still 2VP. Basically makes it a better Harem.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2016, 05:53:57 pm »
+1

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2016, 05:57:32 pm »
+2

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2016, 06:05:27 pm »
+7

Shouldn't Wolf Den be purple instead of green?
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2016, 06:07:23 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2016, 06:10:15 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2016, 06:14:04 pm »
+4

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
Travellers were briefly cyan during testing. It wasn't great.

Prototype events were mauve.
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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2016, 06:29:06 pm »
+6

Tomb is a Rats buff.

And Rats are notoriously tough to buff. Fur gets in the way.

But now I'm sure more people will take a shine to those nasty little vermin, which probably makes their Creator smile.

Disclaimer: I really like Rats which is not, alas, exactly the same thing as being any good with the card.
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werothegreat

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2016, 06:34:21 pm »
0

This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.

You could do Black with white lettering.  And I think Cyan or Magenta would be interesting.
Travellers were briefly cyan during testing. It wasn't great.

Prototype events were mauve.

Do you pronounce "mauve" with the vowel in "law" or the vowel in "trove"?
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #95 on: May 12, 2016, 06:45:55 pm »
0

Do you pronounce "mauve" with the vowel in "law" or the vowel in "trove"?

Trove has two vowels (ə and ʊ).
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #96 on: May 12, 2016, 06:51:33 pm »
0

I could be equally hyperbolic by saying that the rules don't permit you to talk, breath, or remember things at all. While rulebooks are permissive in theory, there are always unwritten assumptions which is why sometimes rulebooks must explicitly state restrictive rules (such as a "no talking" rule used in various games where in all other cases it is assumed players are permitted to talk even if the rules don't say that).

I doubt Donald would say that notetaking is allowed -- based off the rule that you can't look through your discard pile even -- but to claim that an act as innocent as notetaking is cheating cannot be justified by it's lack of inclusion in the rules.
Incorrecto. This has been discussed at length already, so: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=876.msg13546#msg13546
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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2016, 07:05:18 pm »
0

I'm having a bit of trouble with the wording on Keep: what's wrong with "at least as many"?  I like that Dominion occasionally has tortured but precise wordings, but I don't see the need here.  And is "most" a different type of "more"?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:11:15 pm by qmech »
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2016, 08:07:09 pm »
+1

Mmm. That does feel a little wonky. Maybe "When scoring, 5VP per differently named Treasure you have, if no other player has more copies of it than you do."?
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crj

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Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2016, 08:08:46 pm »
0

Tomb is a Rats buff.
Like nothing you've ever seen before, and if you add Fortress, it gets truly ridiculous.  I ended that game with close to 200 VP.
Out of interest, how did you afford the Fortresses? I would have expected your spending power to turn into a writhing mass of fur almost immediately. (Hmm... Alms?)
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